Scout Bot, yay or nay...?

[divisortheory]

You should just stop talking. If you wanted to pull Widescan information from Memory, it would be stale. You cannot receive Widescan information if you do not have Widescan. When you open the Widescan window, the client sends the server an opcode asking for the information. So if you get the information from memory without opening the window, it'll be from whenever you last opened the window.

Maybe you should stop talking, lol. did I say get it from memory? I made the comparison to ffxiah because obviously it doesn't "get stuff from memory". It sends the same requests to the server that the client sends. If you have evidence to suggest that this is IMPOSSIBLE for an analagous method to be used for the widescan function, please present it. Otherwise, gtfo.

The Auction House uses a completely separate protocol, and is hosted on a compeltely separate server. Stop trying to cover your ass, you made a shitty comparison. It does not "send the same requests to the server that the client sends". The only way for this to be possible is if whoever made the program has successfully decrypted the network stream, and then I doubt it would be made into a public application.

YHELOTHAR. Cliff Spradlin, the developer of Windower and the person who wrote the data collection tool, has decrypted the network stream. You can find details about it on the Windower forum. Thanks for playing.

[Taj]

You should just stop talking. If you wanted to pull Widescan information from Memory, it would be stale. You cannot receive Widescan information if you do not have Widescan. When you open the Widescan window, the client sends the server an opcode asking for the information. So if you get the information from memory without opening the window, it'll be from whenever you last opened the window.

Maybe you should stop talking, lol. did I say get it from memory? I made the comparison to ffxiah because obviously it doesn't "get stuff from memory". It sends the same requests to the server that the client sends. If you have evidence to suggest that this is IMPOSSIBLE for an analagous method to be used for the widescan function, please present it. Otherwise, gtfo.

The Auction House uses a completely separate protocol, and is hosted on a compeltely separate server. Stop trying to cover your ass, you made a shitty comparison. It does not "send the same requests to the server that the client sends". The only way for this to be possible is if whoever made the program has successfully decrypted the network stream, and then I doubt it would be made into a public application.

YHELOTHAR. Cliff Spradlin, the developer of Windower and the person who wrote the data collection tool, has decrypted the network stream. You can find details about it on the Windower forum. Thanks for playing.

Hi, so have I. You're still an idiot.

[Raineer]

AH info isn't really a "network stream" since you don't even really need the game running to access it, it's seperate. I don't believe anything "in-game" is accessible without an active connection to the ffxi server (exception being...AH data)

[Taj]

AH info isn't really a "network stream" since you don't even really need the game running to access it, it's seperate. I don't believe anything "in-game" is accessible without an active connection to the ffxi server (exception being...AH data)

As well as search data. Both are completely separate from the game and use TCP/IP instead of UDP.

[divisortheory]

You're still an idiot.

And you've still dodged the issue of presenting any evidence to suggest that it's so obvious that it can't be done for Widescan.

[Taj]

You're still an idiot.

And you've still dodged the issue of presenting any evidence to suggest that it's so obvious that it can't be done for Widescan.

I believe I've stated that it can be done for Widescan, but only if you've managed to decrypt the network protocol. Since only two people have done that to date, I don't think it's very likely that this "bot" exists.

[divisortheory]

Good, so we agree that you admit you were originally wrong, when you said this:

Yeah, because you know, the Auction House information isn't stored on a Separate server accessible even if you're not logged into FFXI.

which was your sarcastic response to my question about why it would be possible to get AH data, but not Widescan data. You certainly supported the idea that it was not possible to get Widescan data back then, and don't try to cover your ass by saying you just were saying it "wasn't likely since only 2 people have done it", because even if that's the case, you still fail at English since I said not possible, and you argued against me, which implies you thought it was not possible.

[Taj]

Good, so we agree that you admit you were originally wrong, when you said this:

Yeah, because you know, the Auction House information isn't stored on a Separate server accessible even if you're not logged into FFXI.

which was your sarcastic response to my question about why it would be possible to get AH data, but not Widescan data. You certainly supported the idea that it was not possible to get Widescan data back then, and don't try to cover your ass by saying you just were saying it "wasn't likely since only 2 people have done it", because even if that's the case, you still fail at English since I said not possible, and you argued against me, which implies you thought it was not possible.

We're arguing about the possibility of this bot existing. Furthermore, you still fail to understand that the Auction House and widescan are two completely fucking different things. I also stand by my statement that it is not possible unless you are on a job that has Widescan, and even then, all you could do is tell the server that you opened your widescan window, and it would send the data the exact same way. The result would be just about the same speed as manually opening the widescan window.

[Khamsin]

Good, so we agree that you admit you were originally wrong, when you said this:

Yeah, because you know, the Auction House information isn't stored on a Separate server accessible even if you're not logged into FFXI.

which was your sarcastic response to my question about why it would be possible to get AH data, but not Widescan data. You certainly supported the idea that it was not possible to get Widescan data back then, and don't try to cover your ass by saying you just were saying it "wasn't likely since only 2 people have done it", because even if that's the case, you still fail at English since I said not possible, and you argued against me, which implies you thought it was not possible.

We're arguing about the possibility of this bot existing. Furthermore, you still fail to understand that the Auction House and widescan are two completely fucking different things. I also stand by my statement that it is not possible unless you are on a job that has Widescan, and even then, all you could do is tell the server that you opened your widescan window, and it would send the data the exact same way. The result would be just about the same speed as manually opening the widescan window.

I don't think he was saying the AH and widescan operated the same way, I think he was just saying that both AH and widescan were things you could pull data from if you knew what you were doing.

As for other people decrypting the network stream, there's no telling how many others may have done it but haven't advertised it like you and Cliff have.

[Zalius]

i cracked the secret code

its veronica

[Remyo]

i cracked the secret code

its veronica

Resident Evil reference, I like.

[Zigma]

ffxiah could gather its data just scraping the normal auction interface potentially. Its an after the fact web display. Realtime monster placement is a whole different sort of data issue.

It wouldn't need to be realtime for one thing. Anyway, the original comment I was responding to was this:

There's no way to access widescan data clientside without opening widescan window.

That sounds pretty much like a statement-of-fact yea? If he wishes to offer proof I'm all ears, otherwise he's just making up guesses out of thin air, without having any real knowledge of how the servers or network architecture.

You should just stop talking. If you wanted to pull Widescan information from Memory, it would be stale. You cannot receive Widescan information if you do not have Widescan. When you open the Widescan window, the client sends the server an opcode asking for the information. So if you get the information from memory without opening the window, it'll be from whenever you last opened the window.

Nah, That is all client side man. You can get all of that by simply reading memory. You don't need widescan to obtain the information and widescan really doesn't send query, it just lets you read that information legally.

It would be foolish to program it to where you have to send a query to the server and get the response back. It would be a waste of cpu cycles. That, and there are so many programs that let you see this, that if you were to do it the way you're saying it is, there would be a banning spree from cali to new york. It would be easy to detect.

So far, I have yet to see people get banned for this.

[Vixy]

ffxiah could gather its data just scraping the normal auction interface potentially. Its an after the fact web display. Realtime monster placement is a whole different sort of data issue.

It wouldn't need to be realtime for one thing. Anyway, the original comment I was responding to was this:

There's no way to access widescan data clientside without opening widescan window.

That sounds pretty much like a statement-of-fact yea? If he wishes to offer proof I'm all ears, otherwise he's just making up guesses out of thin air, without having any real knowledge of how the servers or network architecture.

You should just stop talking. If you wanted to pull Widescan information from Memory, it would be stale. You cannot receive Widescan information if you do not have Widescan. When you open the Widescan window, the client sends the server an opcode asking for the information. So if you get the information from memory without opening the window, it'll be from whenever you last opened the window.

Nah, That is all client side man. You can get all of that by simply reading memory. You don't need widescan to obtain the information and widescan really doesn't send query, it just lets you read that information legally.

It would be foolish to program it to where you have to send a query to the server and get the response back. It would be a waste of cpu cycles. That, and there are so many programs that let you see this, that if you were to do it the way you're saying it is, there would be a banning spree from cali to new york. It would be easy to detect.

So far, I have yet to see people get banned for this.

Npcs arn't in memory past how far you can see them from(i.e. npc.exe or any of the programs you see people using/selling, they are just using what has poped into memory). Widescan isn't limited to distance they pop on the screen like the programs people use(or 50yards for example using distance plugin).
They are not the same thing.

[Zigma]

ffxiah could gather its data just scraping the normal auction interface potentially. Its an after the fact web display. Realtime monster placement is a whole different sort of data issue.

It wouldn't need to be realtime for one thing. Anyway, the original comment I was responding to was this:

There's no way to access widescan data clientside without opening widescan window.

That sounds pretty much like a statement-of-fact yea? If he wishes to offer proof I'm all ears, otherwise he's just making up guesses out of thin air, without having any real knowledge of how the servers or network architecture.

You should just stop talking. If you wanted to pull Widescan information from Memory, it would be stale. You cannot receive Widescan information if you do not have Widescan. When you open the Widescan window, the client sends the server an opcode asking for the information. So if you get the information from memory without opening the window, it'll be from whenever you last opened the window.

Nah, That is all client side man. You can get all of that by simply reading memory. You don't need widescan to obtain the information and widescan really doesn't send query, it just lets you read that information legally.

It would be foolish to program it to where you have to send a query to the server and get the response back. It would be a waste of cpu cycles. That, and there are so many programs that let you see this, that if you were to do it the way you're saying it is, there would be a banning spree from cali to new york. It would be easy to detect.

So far, I have yet to see people get banned for this.

Npcs arn't in memory past how far you can see them from(i.e. npc.exe or any of the programs you see people using/selling, they are just using what has poped into memory). Widescan isn't limited to distance they pop on the screen like the programs people use(or 50yards for example using distance plugin).
They are not the same thing.

you're right, I totally forgot about that. I never played ranger so I'm going by the one I have as beastmaster. imho, i still think it's a waste.

[Taj]

ffxiah could gather its data just scraping the normal auction interface potentially. Its an after the fact web display. Realtime monster placement is a whole different sort of data issue.

It wouldn't need to be realtime for one thing. Anyway, the original comment I was responding to was this:

There's no way to access widescan data clientside without opening widescan window.

That sounds pretty much like a statement-of-fact yea? If he wishes to offer proof I'm all ears, otherwise he's just making up guesses out of thin air, without having any real knowledge of how the servers or network architecture.

You should just stop talking. If you wanted to pull Widescan information from Memory, it would be stale. You cannot receive Widescan information if you do not have Widescan. When you open the Widescan window, the client sends the server an opcode asking for the information. So if you get the information from memory without opening the window, it'll be from whenever you last opened the window.

Nah, That is all client side man. You can get all of that by simply reading memory. You don't need widescan to obtain the information and widescan really doesn't send query, it just lets you read that information legally.

It would be foolish to program it to where you have to send a query to the server and get the response back. It would be a waste of cpu cycles. That, and there are so many programs that let you see this, that if you were to do it the way you're saying it is, there would be a banning spree from cali to new york. It would be easy to detect.

So far, I have yet to see people get banned for this.

You're right about being able to read NPCs from the Mob Struct 40 Units away from you. However, true Widescan distance is impossible to obtain without actually having the ability. On a completely unrelated note, being able to log out without the thirty second count down is a really could way to MPK RMT in Korroloka Tunnel with Jammer Leeches.

[Zigma]

ffxiah could gather its data just scraping the normal auction interface potentially. Its an after the fact web display. Realtime monster placement is a whole different sort of data issue.

It wouldn't need to be realtime for one thing. Anyway, the original comment I was responding to was this:

There's no way to access widescan data clientside without opening widescan window.

That sounds pretty much like a statement-of-fact yea? If he wishes to offer proof I'm all ears, otherwise he's just making up guesses out of thin air, without having any real knowledge of how the servers or network architecture.

You should just stop talking. If you wanted to pull Widescan information from Memory, it would be stale. You cannot receive Widescan information if you do not have Widescan. When you open the Widescan window, the client sends the server an opcode asking for the information. So if you get the information from memory without opening the window, it'll be from whenever you last opened the window.

Nah, That is all client side man. You can get all of that by simply reading memory. You don't need widescan to obtain the information and widescan really doesn't send query, it just lets you read that information legally.

It would be foolish to program it to where you have to send a query to the server and get the response back. It would be a waste of cpu cycles. That, and there are so many programs that let you see this, that if you were to do it the way you're saying it is, there would be a banning spree from cali to new york. It would be easy to detect.

So far, I have yet to see people get banned for this.

You're right about being able to read NPCs from the Mob Struct 40 Units away from you. However, true Widescan distance is impossible to obtain without actually having the ability. On a completely unrelated note, being able to log out without the thirty second count down is a really could way to MPK RMT in Korroloka Tunnel with Jammer Leeches.

I though about this and their reason for making it like this, and the only thing I can come up with is lolps2. :/

[Minions]

They changed it from lottery to un-ph'd here

This stupid patch made it so theyc an spawn BETWEEN REPOPS, it didnt make it so they are timed spawns.... At least as far as I can tell... I guess I havnt sat around for 6hrs to see if not killing the PH will make the monsters spawn. Not that you can find anyone dumb enough not to kill the PH between that time ;x

[ozz]

They changed it from lottery to un-ph'd here

This stupid patch made it so theyc an spawn BETWEEN REPOPS, it didnt make it so they are timed spawns.... At least as far as I can tell... I guess I havnt sat around for 6hrs to see if not killing the PH will make the monsters spawn. Not that you can find anyone dumb enough not to kill the PH between that time ;x

For zuug,atleast,there are no phs. I was camping charyb for a friend and about 2hrs in zuug popped without anyone touching the sahagins in it's room ;/

[Faranim]

You have to realize that RMTs camp NMs every day, across multiple servers. They probably see every 21-24 HNM spawn 2-3 times a day.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they figured out a more concrete way of predicting pop times (it's probably based on the game time / moon phase or something equally obscure but deterministic if you know the formula).

Or they could just have hacks.

However, the screenshot in the OP looks like a FFAssist Map. Definately no widescan or mob-locating capability there.

I know many months (years?) ago I saw screenshots of a program that does what you describe (shows PCs, NPCs, dead mobs, alive mobs, etc all on a minimap). I think it got fixed from one of the mob spawn / MPK patches.