Midgardsormr PO disbanding RMT LS items

[layoneil]

Guess I'm in the mass majority. Regardless of the greed discussion, I can't say I've run into alot of people that will make the statement "I don't want any more money"

the mass majority of people want more money. the mass majority of people also have morals, they won't do X for Y amounts of money. the mass majority of people also have a price, where they'll do X as long as you pay them Z.

people on both sides of this argument are too extreme. most people pay to smoke cigarettes, i wouldn't if you gave me $1000. i probably will for $10,000.

everyone has a different price, everyone has different convictions on what they think is right and wrong. people's convictions on certain subjects also change over time and change due to events that happen in their lives.

knocking people one way or the other is stupid. believe it or not some people do have higher moral convictions than you do. believe it or not everyone does have a price, you just might not know what yours is yet.

i've never thought it was wrong for people to quit and cash out. i've also never truly considered cashing out when i quit either (since the price it'd take is a lot higher than what the current RL market allows).

Think of buying new textbooks for the rundown place your elementary school turned into, providing them with new computers or playground equipment. Send my parents on a cruise around the world as a thanks, whatever my mind can come up with...

this is why criminals donate to charities too. does doing those things make selling drugs okay?

[SephYuyX]

FFXI isnt going to last forever, it will end one day.

Even if there was no RMT, FFXI would end. And it wont last forever, maybe like 5 years max.

Everyone is trying to act holy in saying 'I will not RMT, it will ruin the economy!' What economy? a game economy? one that wont be around for much longer? a fake economy? a fake game?

Oh shit, I just screwed up some fake economy and some 11 y/o kids day and got me some $$ IRL.

[layoneil]

FFXI isnt going to last forever, it will end one day.

your life isn't going to last forever either. when some people find out that they have a terminal disease, they can become very dangerous because of this mentality.

[Lordwafik]

FFXI isnt going to last forever, it will end one day.

Even if there was no RMT, FFXI would end. And it wont last forever, maybe like 5 years max.

Everyone is trying to act holy in saying 'I will not RMT, it will ruin the economy!' What economy? a game economy? one that wont be around for much longer? a fake economy? a fake game?

Oh shit, I just screwed up some fake economy and some 11 y/o kids day and got me some $$ IRL.

No, I wont be screwing over an 11 year old kids day by selling out. I'll ruin :

- My dynamis LS, the dagger was a team effort
- My friends, for making them come with me to get my rare/ex gears/quests/jobs/levelling up when I asked for help
- My previous LS's, who I appreciate for letting me lot on the abjurations even if they think I'm a greedy cunt
- Everyone in this game who taught me at least something.
- All the websites I used for crafting advice and NMs, and dynamis, and limbus, etc.

And I can garuntee, none of them are some 11 year old kid. They are all people behind the monitor, just like you, and people who dont appreciate feeling sold out apon.

As for Ffxi not lasting forever, that's just stating the obvious. Everything ends, nothing is infinite, not life, not even earth itself, everything ends in due time. I am not trying to act holy in my decisions, but I'm not going to go against what I feel is wrong. I dont like money crossing boundaries between real life and a virtual life, outside of the payment you do each month.

Now do you understand why Lordwafik will not be sold when I quit? Hey gilsellers dont feel guilt selling their accounts, I do. I dont care what anyone says, I dont think I'd be able to do it without feeling horrible after it.

[freja]

FFXI isnt going to last forever, it will end one day.

Even if there was no RMT, FFXI would end. And it wont last forever, maybe like 5 years max.

Everyone is trying to act holy in saying 'I will not RMT, it will ruin the economy!' What economy? a game economy? one that wont be around for much longer? a fake economy? a fake game?

Oh shit, I just screwed up some fake economy and some 11 y/o kids day and got me some $$ IRL.

Yeah, you could think of it like this.

I prefer to think of it like this:

When I leave, I'll still have friends playing this game. I don't want to make it harder on them cause I'm taking off. I'll most likely give them my account, to make things easier on them when I take off.

These are the guys that stayed up with me 11 hours to get 9 papyruses for my level 50 alliance. The guys that went on 5 day multiple AF runs with me to get my first artifact set complete, as a level 60 alliance. The guys I hunted coffer keys with, the guys I did Zilart missions with.

The guys I eventually went on with to kill hakutaku, simurgh, roc, sky gods, kirin, and eventually tiamat, vrtra, bahamut, and JoL. These are the ones I spent hours of my life with for nearly the past 3 years now, and even if FFXI were to shut down completely 6 months after I left, I'd still want to make the time left easier for them.

I love the people in this game. I've developed close bonds with my friends, and my linkshell. I've developed close bonds with many people outside my linkshell as well. I've tried to make many friends with lower level players, helping them out whenever I can, because it makes the game fun. I'm not going to sell out on them when I leave for the promise of a few bucks. You might, and if you do like I say, I'm not condeming you or anything. But it's a thought that I don't want to entertain.

But like layoneil said, everybody does have a price, and I'm sure I have mine too. But unless someone is willing to cough up unreasonable amounts of money for something so essentially worthless, then my morals stand.

[BRP]

FFXI isnt going to last forever, it will end one day.

Even if there was no RMT, FFXI would end. And it wont last forever, maybe like 5 years max.

Everyone is trying to act holy in saying 'I will not RMT, it will ruin the economy!' What economy? a game economy? one that wont be around for much longer? a fake economy? a fake game?

Oh shit, I just screwed up some fake economy and some 11 y/o kids day and got me some $$ IRL.

I rather argue with Raineer about this, even if it appears his mentallity is very alien to me, because you are a fucking douchebag who seems to want attention more than to make a good point on the subject. No one cares about how much you don't care, shut up please.

[Raineer]

Seriously... the idea that i "screwed people" is quite funny.

Guess this is the new nature of MMORPG, what is really "real" and what is not. Your cartoon characters should be mad at me I guess?

I screwed you how again? Let's go with popular vote, whether or not 50%+ of the people buy gil.

If more than 50% of the people on Siren buy gil, then I benefitted the community as a whole since I provided more supply one time so the price will drop, meaning they can purchase more.

If less than 50% purchase gil then nothing changed anyways...since my actions had 0 effect on the people camping Ulli or craftbotting or whatever. At least those "under 50%" people will appreciate the lower prices.

For the people saying that i "trash my own morals", I felt EXACTLY like that when I played the game. People buying the gil drive the issue, and as long as SE was completely incompetent at banning RMT crafters and RMT farmers...it wasn't going to go away.

edit:
The best analogy to me was the one about the golfer (sorry idk who mentioned it), as I really don't have a response to that except that the golfer still got paid while winning the trophies.

I liken it more to the garage band that just wanted to play some music...then all the sudden hit it big and were shocked at the wtfmoney it could bring in. Most fans call that selling out, and I can't disagree with that sentiment. You say I didn't get into this for the money (which is absolutely true), but realizing you have something worth money and deciding you want to realize that profit shouldn't be a crime.

[SephYuyX]

FFXI isnt going to last forever, it will end one day.

Even if there was no RMT, FFXI would end. And it wont last forever, maybe like 5 years max.

Everyone is trying to act holy in saying 'I will not RMT, it will ruin the economy!' What economy? a game economy? one that wont be around for much longer? a fake economy? a fake game?

Oh shit, I just screwed up some fake economy and some 11 y/o kids day and got me some $$ IRL.

I rather argue with Raineer about this, even if it appears his mentallity is very alien to me, because you are a fucking douchebag who seems to want attention more than to make a good point on the subject. No one cares about how much you don't care, shut up please.

That almost made sense BRP, almost, keep trying and you will get it.

[Lordwafik]

FFXI isnt going to last forever, it will end one day.

Even if there was no RMT, FFXI would end. And it wont last forever, maybe like 5 years max.

Everyone is trying to act holy in saying 'I will not RMT, it will ruin the economy!' What economy? a game economy? one that wont be around for much longer? a fake economy? a fake game?

Oh shit, I just screwed up some fake economy and some 11 y/o kids day and got me some $$ IRL.

Yeah, you could think of it like this.

I prefer to think of it like this:

When I leave, I'll still have friends playing this game. I don't want to make it harder on them cause I'm taking off. I'll most likely give them my account, to make things easier on them when I take off.

These are the guys that stayed up with me 11 hours to get 9 papyruses for my level 50 alliance. The guys that went on 5 day multiple AF runs with me to get my first artifact set complete, as a level 60 alliance. The guys I hunted coffer keys with, the guys I did Zilart missions with.

The guys I eventually went on with to kill hakutaku, simurgh, roc, sky gods, kirin, and eventually tiamat, vrtra, bahamut, and JoL. These are the ones I spent hours of my life with for nearly the past 3 years now, and even if FFXI were to shut down completely 6 months after I left, I'd still want to make the time left easier for them.

I love the people in this game. I've developed close bonds with my friends, and my linkshell. I've developed close bonds with many people outside my linkshell as well. I've tried to make many friends with lower level players, helping them out whenever I can, because it makes the game fun. I'm not going to sell out on them when I leave for the promise of a few bucks. You might, and if you do like I say, I'm not condeming you or anything. But it's a thought that I don't want to entertain.

But like layoneil said, everybody does have a price, and I'm sure I have mine too. But unless someone is willing to cough up unreasonable amounts of money for something so essentially worthless, then my morals stand.

Agreed 5000% You just had the word I wanted to say but I cant really think (very late here >< ).

I dont see people in this game as pawns on my chessboard, I see them as friends, ones I still speak to even after they quit. I've had many "papyrus" friends quit FFXI and I still speak to them quite regularly on AIM / MSN. All this game brought was a portal where I from AU could interact with many different races and cultures from all around the world, and there's no price for that

Anyway, my bedtime, night night. Will continue when I wake up and this is 20 pages or some crap.

[Vixy]

FFXI isnt going to last forever, it will end one day.

Even if there was no RMT, FFXI would end. And it wont last forever, maybe like 5 years max.

Everyone is trying to act holy in saying 'I will not RMT, it will ruin the economy!' What economy? a game economy? one that wont be around for much longer? a fake economy? a fake game?

Oh shit, I just screwed up some fake economy and some 11 y/o kids day and got me some $$ IRL.

If this is your mentality about the issue, you might as well not even play right? Fake game? Heh, hows the fake hotties going?

[Raineer]

Anyway, my bedtime, night night. Will continue when I wake up and this is 20 pages or some crap.

Nah, it's a good debate but it's not dramalicious enough :D

I respect all your opinions, I just don't see it being the dramatic crime that you are making out to be.

I know the "SE's incompetence forced my hand" arguement isn't what you want to hear, but it's hard to avoid the topic. *If* SE had properly dealt with RMT and kept things relatively clean then yes...my stance on this would be totally different. SE all but supports RMT players up until the last month or so (I've been gone for several), where it was impossible to get one in jail even with him fleehacking right in front of you.

RMT'ing in that kind of environment is more like "fuck it I give up" / "if you can't beat em join em" situation. Your little pittance of gil you adds .00001% to the overall RMT coffers and can put a 5-10% (or more if you're real young) boost into yours.

edit: They ban the banks but refuse to ban the players that obviously bot/hack their way through life. These are the ones that have a more direct effect on players, and honestly alot easier to catch.

[SephYuyX]

FFXI isnt going to last forever, it will end one day.

Even if there was no RMT, FFXI would end. And it wont last forever, maybe like 5 years max.

Everyone is trying to act holy in saying 'I will not RMT, it will ruin the economy!' What economy? a game economy? one that wont be around for much longer? a fake economy? a fake game?

Oh shit, I just screwed up some fake economy and some 11 y/o kids day and got me some $$ IRL.

If this is your mentality about the issue, you might as well not even play right? Fake game? Heh, hows the fake hotties going?

;o I have fans <3

Doesnt matter regardless, if the servers fell down and burned not many people would flinch. If anything it would be more of a god send.

How many people know someone that says something 'Jesus I wish I got hacked or something so I could quit this game' I bet everyone knows a person just like that.

If there was a person out there that would turn down money fomr something that had no use any more, and no use to anyone else, id think that they are crazy.

[freja]

Anyway, my bedtime, night night. Will continue when I wake up and this is 20 pages or some crap.

Nah, it's a good debate but it's not dramalicious enough :D

I respect all your opinions, I just don't see it being the dramatic crime that you are making out to be.

I know the "SE's incompetence forced my hand" arguement isn't what you want to hear, but it's hard to avoid the topic. *If* SE had properly dealt with RMT and kept things relatively clean then yes...my stance on this would be totally different. SE all but supports RMT players up until the last month or so (I've been gone for several), where it was impossible to get one in jail even with him fleehacking right in front of you.

RMT'ing in that kind of environment is more like "fuck it I give up" / "if you can't beat em join em" situation. Your little pittance of gil you adds .00001% to the overall RMT coffers and can put a 5-10% (or more if you're real young) boost into yours.

edit: They ban the banks but refuse to ban the players that obviously bot/hack their way through life. These are the ones that have a more direct effect on players, and honestly alot easier to catch.

Oh no, you're right. It's not a big crime at all. In fact, you may possibly be the smarter of us, making some money on something that would be worthless otherwise.

I'm just talking about myself. It's something that my train of thought would not let me do. Yes, I know SE does nothing about RMT. But the trade as a whole disgusts me, so I could never let myself do anything to perpetuate it any further, be it that 0.00000001%

It's all up to the individual. I always had fond memories, even of the friends that left the game and sold their accounts. Hell, one of my closest friends IRL, a buddy from high school, sold his account when he quit. I still see him regularly and I don't think any less of him for it.

But after feeling crappy of the RMT I see all around me, I don't ever want anything more to do with it myself.

[Vixy]

Anyway, my bedtime, night night. Will continue when I wake up and this is 20 pages or some crap.

Nah, it's a good debate but it's not dramalicious enough :D

I respect all your opinions, I just don't see it being the dramatic crime that you are making out to be.

I know the "SE's incompetence forced my hand" arguement isn't what you want to hear, but it's hard to avoid the topic. *If* SE had properly dealt with RMT and kept things relatively clean then yes...my stance on this would be totally different. SE all but supports RMT players up until the last month or so (I've been gone for several), where it was impossible to get one in jail even with him fleehacking right in front of you.

RMT'ing in that kind of environment is more like "fuck it I give up" / "if you can't beat em join em" situation. Your little pittance of gil you adds .00001% to the overall RMT coffers and can put a 5-10% (or more if you're real young) boost into yours.

edit: They ban the banks but refuse to ban the players that obviously bot/hack their way through life. These are the ones that have a more direct effect on players, and honestly alot easier to catch.

Oh no, you're right. It's not a big crime at all. In fact, you may possibly be the smarter of us, making some money on something that would be worthless otherwise.

I'm just talking about myself. It's something that my train of thought would not let me do. Yes, I know SE does nothing about RMT. But the trade as a whole disgusts me, so I could never let myself do anything to perpetuate it any further, be it that 0.00000001%

It's all up to the individual. I always had fond memories, even of the friends that left the game and sold their accounts. Hell, one of my closest friends IRL, a buddy from high school, sold his account when he quit. I still see him regularly and I don't think any less of him for it.

But after feeling crappy of the RMT I see all around me, I don't ever want anything more to do with it myself.

And you call this stupid trixi? It's called having morals.

[BRP]

I think the only thing left to say is two wrongs don't make a right. You pretty much accept doing a bad thing and embrace it. I want Batman to hurt you. Really, you don't hurt SE by becoming RMT, you might even help them if you sell your account instead of gil.

SephirothYuyX, you are annoying. Wafik, I don't know how you don't abuse your power. True willpower. I think I would eliminate all SEFEROFH clones on day one and everyone who are like this asshole or flux on day two.

So you think im foolish for falling for all of this, wonder wtf would I involve myself in a distant realtionship. Well im sorry, I didnt know love had boundaries and that i had to follow certain rules. I dont care what you think, so what if you think im pathetic irl and i cant get a girl, im not the only person in this game whos fallen in love, go bitch at them too.

Thanks for the laugh :D

[SephYuyX]

Anyway, my bedtime, night night. Will continue when I wake up and this is 20 pages or some crap.

Nah, it's a good debate but it's not dramalicious enough :D

I respect all your opinions, I just don't see it being the dramatic crime that you are making out to be.

I know the "SE's incompetence forced my hand" arguement isn't what you want to hear, but it's hard to avoid the topic. *If* SE had properly dealt with RMT and kept things relatively clean then yes...my stance on this would be totally different. SE all but supports RMT players up until the last month or so (I've been gone for several), where it was impossible to get one in jail even with him fleehacking right in front of you.

RMT'ing in that kind of environment is more like "fuck it I give up" / "if you can't beat em join em" situation. Your little pittance of gil you adds .00001% to the overall RMT coffers and can put a 5-10% (or more if you're real young) boost into yours.

edit: They ban the banks but refuse to ban the players that obviously bot/hack their way through life. These are the ones that have a more direct effect on players, and honestly alot easier to catch.

Oh no, you're right. It's not a big crime at all. In fact, you may possibly be the smarter of us, making some money on something that would be worthless otherwise.

I'm just talking about myself. It's something that my train of thought would not let me do. Yes, I know SE does nothing about RMT. But the trade as a whole disgusts me, so I could never let myself do anything to perpetuate it any further, be it that 0.00000001%

It's all up to the individual. I always had fond memories, even of the friends that left the game and sold their accounts. Hell, one of my closest friends IRL, a buddy from high school, sold his account when he quit. I still see him regularly and I don't think any less of him for it.

But after feeling crappy of the RMT I see all around me, I don't ever want anything more to do with it myself.

And you call this stupid trixi? It's called having morals.

Morals are fine and dandy to have, I have them, everyone has them. Thats what that person believe in, and my ultimatum above said that if it were of use to no one else, not that if FFXI was still thriving. If I were ever to leave id sell out in a minute, my desicions in a game do not effect me or anyone else IRL.


BRP my friend, you're still failing, but keep trying you will get it, I have faith in you.

[Lordender]

No matter how anyone wants to look at it from whatever side your on, people who decide to rmt their toon with items think of it as their investment -.- personally i don't like the whole rmt business with mmo's but there is always people out there who are gonna want to make a quick buck once they quit.

[Tencteri]

Actually, FFXI is suppose to be around for the next 7 years with 3 more expansions to be released. When FFXI first came out, it was only suppose to last for 2 years with FFXI (original game) and 2 expansions. The game could last way longer than you may all currently think and even what SE said.

Look at Magic the Gathering (Trading Card Game) for example. It was only suppose to last for a few months, and it has been around for over 10 years and is going to continue for the next 20 years. FFXI won't last forever probably, but it will be around for an extremely long time since the demand for it is very high, just like WoW.

As for PO, I ask this: Where is Aratharn in all of this? Someone from PO please private message me with what exactly happened.

If I were all of you, I would just enjoy the game and make the most of it, good or bad. I don't like the RMTs and they do mess up the game, but thats a whole different argument and can be fixed really easily. Just have fun with the game and enjoy it for what it is.

[Weeks]

Suuure youd be screwing up the economy more, but guess what, you wont be playing any more, and everyone else can go to hell.

Nice to see karma getting in a little sneak attack for once with the whole falling-in-love-with-a-man thing.

[Stellar]

Life won't be around forever.. You're gonna die some day. Might as well rape all the girls you can and rob a bunch of stores because it benefits you, right?