Red Mage Meritpo Builds

[Miruka]

IMO, if you're not converting, then you aren't playing to your full potential.

Yes! If you're tired or your party sucks thus making lazy mode somewhat okay, well, that's one thing, but I don't understand why anyone would want to admit they don't have use for an extra MP bar every 10 minutes. RDM has a huge list of spells, if you have extra MP there are plenty of useful things to use it on. That ability defines RDM's ability to do its enormous, neverending sets of spells yet not run dry of MP whereas MP users without it inevitably will, under spell pressure anything close to what RDM handles with ease.

Let's try this: "Everyone talks about merriting berserk but idk... i havent berserked in like a year. I think you can spend your merrits better in other places. The berserk timer is fine (if you even need it)"

(By the way, I'm a big fan of (people with) Convert merits.)

[Skyylya]

Having an extra RDM with a couple worthless spells because another RDM also merited intelligently is better than having a completely useless RDM at all other things because they merited like an idiot.

Which RDM merit spells/abilities are worthless?

What i mean is, it is better to have your RDM's merited in things like ice/wind merits and slow II/para II rather than have one in something good like those, and some do something like earth for slow, or blind II(I mean really, how often is a pld/nin gonna dodge, and in xp what mob lives long enough to clear everyone's shadows anyway on a regular basis).

As Flux said earlier, you can recast slow II if it doesn't land 4 seconds later, and paralyze quicker than that. I'd even emphasize more on wind than ice unless you're a real soloer.

I mean do what you want by all means with your RDM, but i'm not going to gimp mine for 90% of all situations because that one time every other rdm we have shows up i'll be usefull.

[aurik]

slow2, blind2, and para2 are all awesome for duoing with a mnk or thf.

[divisortheory]

I mean do what you want by all means with your RDM, but i'm not going to gimp mine for 90% of all situations because that one time every other rdm we have shows up i'll be usefull.

So you're going to be the only RDM at 90% of events? You don't need "every other RDM you have" to show up. You only need 1, because chances are they have Para and Slow merited. Anyway, people did fine before any of these new things were introduced, so even in the rare case that you are actually the only RDM, you'll still be fine. The fact you wouldn't have a maxed out Para II wouldn't mean crap, and the alliance as a whole would only be at a slight disadvantage over what they would be at if you had Para and Slow. You'd still be at an advantage over what you would have been at before these merits were introduced.

However, most of the time multiple other RDM come, and since most of the time they all want to merit exactly the same shit, it follows that most of the time you'd be doing a service by having something that nobody else had. For example, Dia III, or a fully merited Blind II (I admit Bio III sucks).

Almost nobody else will have that, ever. Because Blind II is worthless? Of course not, I've heard meriting it one time puts it on par with Ninja blind. So meriting it 3 times is obviously considerably stronger. This is blind that you cannot get otherwise, while everyone and their mother can Paralyze II the mob, there will be people with 120,000 points of exp invested into each of these merits that go largely untouched at events because there's someone else in the alliance doing it, while your 120,000 points of exp will be made use of 100% of the time, at every event.

I guess we have to agree to disagree, but if I ever level RDM to 75 I'm doing Blind II x3, Phalanx II x2, and Dia III x1. Assuming they don't raise the number of merits you can spend in Group 2 by that time. I don't see the reasoning behind spending 120k of exp to get something that 90% of the time someone else in the group could do instead just to give myself a false sense of strength and usefulness.

[theo]

Unless I change my mind, I'm planning on 2x Blind II, 2x Para II, and 2x Slow II.

Situation A: I'm at a LS event, where two other RDMs in my shell have Para II Slow II and Phalanx II. Blind II gives me something unique to throw into the mix. One of the other RDMs can sit in the tank pt and be on phalanx duty, you only really need one of those anyway.

Situation B: I'm the only RDM, maybe in a small group Limbus, Sea farming, add party, whatever so long as its not speed-killing where tier II enfeebles are a waste of MP. Here I have three tier II enfeebles to play with, none of which are maxed out, but they're still *better* then their tier I equivelents.

[geno]

IMO, if you're not converting, then you aren't playing to your full potential.

Yes! If you're tired or your party sucks thus making lazy mode somewhat okay, well, that's one thing, but I don't understand why anyone would want to admit they don't have use for an extra MP bar every 10 minutes. RDM has a huge list of spells, if you have extra MP there are plenty of useful things to use it on. That ability defines RDM's ability to do its enormous, neverending sets of spells yet not run dry of MP whereas MP users without it inevitably will, under spell pressure anything close to what RDM handles with ease.

Let's try this: "Everyone talks about merriting berserk but idk... i havent berserked in like a year. I think you can spend your merrits better in other places. The berserk timer is fine (if you even need it)"

(By the way, I'm a big fan of (people with) Convert merits.)

I agree with this. If I have too much MP and I see my convert is nearly ready, then I suddenly have a LOT of things I can do. Make sure enfeebles are ALL on, cure everyone in range to full, hell, throw some nukes out... why not? It doesn't really hurt the party to go above and beyond because in the end you have an endless supply of mp if you can time it right. I haven't finished my merits but I am doing 5convert 3wind 2ice, 3slow 2para 1phal2. For HP/MP merits, I used to have 8MP merits, but I am in the proccess of changing them to 4/4 most likely.

[kawkawkaw]

but if I ever level RDM to 75 I'm doing Blind II x3, Phalanx II x2, and Dia III x1.

kay

[divisortheory]

Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 12

kay

[Kimiko]

Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 12

kay

ZAM'able offense?

[FFXIFlux]

So you're going to be the only RDM at 90% of events? You don't need "every other RDM you have" to show up. You only need 1, because chances are they have Para and Slow merited.

And exactly how many RDM do you want to show up? Having 1 or 2 RDM for something like Limbus is pretty typical. We've done Omega with 12 with 1 RDM, while other groups, with 1 or 2 RDM tops, are off getting more chips. Even with 2 RDM in an alliance, 1 is jacked doing 2x Phalanx 2 and 4-6x refresh, and healing, and maybe hasting and won't be keeping debuffs up worth shit.

Anyway, people did fine before any of these new things were introduced, so even in the rare case that you are actually the only RDM, you'll still be fine. The fact you wouldn't have a maxed out Para II wouldn't mean crap, and the alliance as a whole would only be at a slight disadvantage over what they would be at if you had Para and Slow. You'd still be at an advantage over what you would have been at before these merits were introduced.

However, most of the time multiple other RDM come, and since most of the time they all want to merit exactly the same shit, it follows that most of the time you'd be doing a service by having something that nobody else had. For example, Dia III, or a fully merited Blind II (I admit Bio III sucks).

So your argument is that without something like Slow II you're fine because it doesn't help much, but if you take something else like Bind II you'll be doing some sort of service by having it. Uh dur. Way to blow away your own argument there.

I guess we have to agree to disagree, but if I ever level RDM to 75

I'm doing Blind II x3, Phalanx II x2, and Dia III x1. Assuming they don't raise the number of merits you can spend in Group 2 by that time. I don't see the reasoning behind spending 120k of exp to get something that 90% of the time someone else in the group could do instead just to give myself a false sense of strength and usefulness.

Soooo... let me see, you'll get Blind II to level 3 because the extra 1% accuracy down over level 2 might make a mob miss a paladin tank 0.1% more for the periods where it isn't already flashed and assuming you can convince ninjas not to use Kuriyami which will overwrite it, but you'll leave Phalanx II at level 2, because making it last 30 seconds more, which significantly reduces cast time overhead and overall MP cost and taking it's damage absorbtion from 17ish to 20ish (about 15-20% better) wouldn't be as good because other RDM might have it.

If the tests I've seen are correct, getting Slow II at at least level 1 is a no-brainer. At cap its at least 3% higher (10% better) than slow, and under cap it's 10-15% higher (100% better) than Slow 1 at the same MND.

[divisortheory]

So your argument is that without something like Slow II you're fine because it doesn't help much, but if you take something else like Bind II you'll be doing some sort of service by having it.

No, I said Slow II helps a ton. What doesn't help is having 2 people using Slow II on the same mob. If your LS can't ever find RDMs to bring to events then maybe you have an argument but at least with my LS, there's at least 6-7 people on with RDM levelled at any given time, and most full alliances have 2 RDMs in them when we do things. Between 2 RDMs and 2 sources of MP regeneration per RDM (Ballad+Refresh), I would think one can find time and MP to keep Slow II+Paralyze II up, while the other can find time to keep Dia III+Blind II up, while still keeping their members refreshed and tanks Phalanxed. Make the Blind II debuff a lower priority than Refresh or whatever else you're doing if you have to, but if you're trying to argue that somehow having 1 debuff on a mob is better than having 2 debuffs on a mob, then I don't really know what to say.

If you're in one of those situations where you're doing Omega with 1 RDM, then the person with alternate debuffs just pick a different job that day. Again, unless you're in an LS that is severely lacking RDMs, it shouldn't be a problem to have someone else come RDM. However, as I've made clear multiple times, I'm not talking about the situation where you can only choose 1 RDM for your entire alliance. I'm talking about the situation where you can choose multiple, and in that situation it is fucking ridiculous to choose 1 debuff over 2 debuffs.

Also, you pulled the 1% number out of your ass.

[DrObvious]

As Flux said earlier, you can recast slow II if it doesn't land 4 seconds later, and paralyze quicker than that. I'd even emphasize more on wind than ice unless you're a real soloer.

No you can't, because slow II's recast is closer to 20 seconds.

[FFXIFlux]

Also, you pulled the 1% number out of your ass.

No, I pulled it from the description of the merit.

I would think one can find time and MP to keep Slow II+Paralyze II up, while the other can find time to keep Dia III+Blind II up, while still keeping their members refreshed and tanks Phalanxed.

Had you ever fought an HNM you'd know a NIN isn't going to dodge shit on them, let alone a PLD. Using Blind II in that situation is a good way to pull agro and thats about it.

[Kandykanez]

Also, you pulled the 1% number out of your ass.

No, I pulled it from the description of the merit.

I would think one can find time and MP to keep Slow II+Paralyze II up, while the other can find time to keep Dia III+Blind II up, while still keeping their members refreshed and tanks Phalanxed.

Had you ever fought an HNM you'd know a NIN isn't going to dodge shit on them, let alone a PLD. Using Blind II in that situation is a good way to pull agro and thats about it.

Tanking Ouryu yesterday as rdm/nin, I cast BlindII for shits, with nothing for enfeebling magic on besides af1+1 body. It landed each time, and Ouryu missed me at least 2 or 3 times for the 5 minutes our nin/brd had bit it. Call it dumb luck, or maybe it actually works. /shrug

[aurik]

Random luck. Statues in dynamis missed my black mage 3x in a row tonight with my whopping 200 evasion skill.

HNM are going to have capped accuracy against almost any tank. Blind2 will make a difference when you're doing small nms duo/trio, like charybdis or whatnot.

[Kandykanez]

Yar I figured as much, but there's always that small hope of 'what if...' lol

[divisortheory]

Also, you pulled the 1% number out of your ass.

No, I pulled it from the description of the merit.

In that case, definitely don't waste merits on Phalanx II, since it will only reduce the damge received by a PLD by 3 points. And I know you're going to say Phalanx is probably 3% as opposed to 3 points, but unless you've actually parsed it and have results to show, which afaik nobody has done for Blind II, you can't add your own percent sign.

[Ksandra]

Random luck. Statues in dynamis missed my black mage 3x in a row tonight with my whopping 200 evasion skill.

HNM are going to have capped accuracy against almost any tank. Blind2 will make a difference when you're doing small nms duo/trio, like charybdis or whatnot.

Or maybe blind 2 was created so people actually could dodge on hnms.

Not saying that's true or not but not enough rdms out there are willing to cap blind 2 to test it out to see wether it does help or not, so I think a lot of blind 2 talks is more on guessing than any actually testing.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Random luck. Statues in dynamis missed my black mage 3x in a row tonight with my whopping 200 evasion skill.

HNM are going to have capped accuracy against almost any tank. Blind2 will make a difference when you're doing small nms duo/trio, like charybdis or whatnot.

Or maybe blind 2 was created so people actually could dodge on hnms.

Not saying that's true or not but not enough rdms out there are willing to cap blind 2 to test it out to see wether it does help or not, so I think a lot of blind 2 talks is more on guessing than any actually testing.

Maybe we should test out evasion builds again. Its been a long time since those were given a chance.

[Khamsin]

I wish search worked so I could find that parse that put Blind II on par with Kurayami. Not only does it have the same potency (when fully meritted, I assume) as Kurayami, but also the same priority so it can't overwrite it.