Red Mage Meritpo Builds

[Ksandra]

well for one you only used 1 point in blind2, two 5 mobs is a very small sample, and three like someone posted above colbri have level ranges so though I commend you on taking the time to do a test that one isn't very conclusive at all. :/

[FFXIFlux]

Did some tests with Blind II (LV1) outside on Colibris.

5 Easy Prey Colibris:

Why not just use actual Colibri and have them Kurami/Blind II you and you can test the evasion change with accuracy gear swaps? Also if blind's potency is variable then it'll be INT that influences it, not enfeebling skill.

Regardless, it's not going to lower an HNM's accuracy by the absolutely ludicrous amount needed in order to matter.

[Damen]

well for one you only used 1 point in blind2, two 5 mobs is a very small sample, and three like someone posted above colbri have level ranges so though I commend you on taking the time to do a test that one isn't very conclusive at all. :/

Wasn't designed to be conclusive, however, it's a start. I really don't care that much about blind II to spend anymore than the 1 1/2 hours I already spent on Colibris. I knew the test wasn't perfect from the beginning, but alas I thought the results were interesting, nevertheless, and I would share them. I recorded the amount of exp received for each mob cause I knew they weren't of the same level. I know the test isn't 100% perfect, it wasn't designed to be. I haven't seen any data on Blind II yet. Take the data with a grain of salt, its just something to look at. Go out and test yourself on that perfect mob that spawns the same level every time if you don't like the test i did. It's just blind spell and I have better things to do lol. Either way you look at it, we're still haste and cure whores for burn parties, and like its been stated, it shouldn't have much impact on HNMs considering mob's accuracy.

[Enjou]

My conclusion: The new enfeebles in my opinion were designed by SE to address the issue that so many RDMs have bitched about over the years: Mostly, having Melee/WHM being able to land enfeebles better or equal than Red main on HNMs. I don't really think they were designed to be super enfeebles, but to just give RDMs a place in the HNM scene other than Refresh, Cure spam, + make a sad attempt to enfeeble.

Whatever, slow II rocks.

If they gave whm those spells I bet they'd land it just as good as rdm can -.o;;;; smn/whm silenced tiamat the other day.... -.-

[Kimiko]

Yeah, just as anyone can roll a 1 on a d100. Always going to have that dumb luck factor in the game.

[DrObvious]

Oh well, reposting this.

Slow II overwrites hojo ni at all levels. Hojo ni always has no effect when it is cast after I land slow II level 1. Whoever started the rumor that hojo overwrote it was just wrong.

Some guy on ki who has blind II tested it and said blind II does not overwrite kurayami ni, and that the potency was roughly equal. The effect was noticeably better than the original blind(around 7% lower acc).

As for evasion builds on hnms, here's what Rukenshin said in his latest lj entry:

-Evasion
Despite the effectiveness of this gear set, I almost never use it anymore. It gives +22 AGI and around +115 evasion (at night, counting evasion from AGI, and evasion skill). It's extremely effective in dodging just about anything (even more so when they're blinded), and I've yet to see it not work on any HNM in this game. However, with the improvements to my defense gear I haven't seen the need to go through the trouble of carrying all the gear around anymore. It used to be a way to avoid taking heavy damage, but with the defense gear I have now taking damage isn't really a problem. It's an effective set nonetheless, but just not as useful to me anymore. Requires blinding pots to activate Bat Earrings.

I think I'll take the word of an actual nin, especially rukenshin's word, over that of Flux.

[Krandor]

Well since you reposted it I'll repost my reply that imo in endgame fights Evasion is just about worthless.

As a 75 PLD and 75 NIN I can for the most part say that evasion doesn't do jack fucking shit. For PLD the effects of Blind should be pretty obvious, since you aren't evading shit with 225 base skill. Most HNM fights the same holds true for NIN. While true one can pile up on evasion gear, you do it at the loss of alot of enmity, to the point where (outside of trying to hold something) your mages will be making more use out of Blind II then you will.

Besides, with March and Haste on one doesn't even need evasion to begin with, recasts will be so low.

[DrObvious]

I agree that it's not necessary in today's environment especially after people discovered how good nin is at reducing damage, but this was more a question of "can it be done," not "should you do it." I totally agree that blind II looks pretty worthless.

[Miruka]

Slow II overwrites hojo ni at all levels. Hojo ni always has no effect when it is cast after I land slow II level 1. Whoever started the rumor that hojo overwrote it was just wrong.

It's a moot point, but I think you can mess with stats so that happens. But for Hojo potency to be worse than Slow II's, it would have to be on a HNM and you would have to wear like -MND so that the difference is something like -50; I'm guessing that's why we'll never see it happen in a real situation. (Maybe whoever started the rumor was just really weak? =p)

[FFXIFlux]

Slow II overwrites hojo ni at all levels. Hojo ni always has no effect when it is cast after I land slow II level 1. Whoever started the rumor that hojo overwrote it was just wrong.

It's a moot point, but I think you can mess with stats so that happens.

Why do people still think spells with higher potency will overwrite ones with weaker? Please name one effect in this game that will sometimes overwrite another and sometimes not (and no, slow from a spider is not the same effect as slow from a crawler.)

[Demetrick]

As for evasion builds on hnms, here's what Rukenshin said in his latest lj entry:

-Evasion
Requires blinding pots to activate Bat Earrings.

I think I'll take the word of an actual nin, especially rukenshin's word, over that of Flux.

Should I be banished to Alla, haven't pulled my ninja out in over 9 months, but I thought that Melody+1's were better with the latent activated over Bat Earrings and being blind?

[Krandor]

An evasion build like that is kind of an "oh shit I'm in trouble" kind of thing. In those situations making a portion of your gear dependent on another player might not be a wise idea.

[Damen]

Why do people still think spells with higher potency will overwrite ones with weaker? Please name one effect in this game that will sometimes overwrite another and sometimes not (and no, slow from a spider is not the same effect as slow from a crawler.)

Phalanx. Cast it on yourself with AF pants and Enhancing Torque (278 enhancing). Then recast Phalanx without AF pants and Torque (256 skill). "Phalanx effect has no effect on...."

Essentially the stronger Phalanx will overwrite the weaker version, but the weaker version trying to overwrite the 278enhancing skill one will have no effect.

[layoneil]

Sample 1
1) Apply Elegy with Horn +1
2) Try to apply Elegy without Horn +1 (no effect)

Sample 2
1) Apply Elegy without Horn +1
2) Try to apply Elegy with Horn +1 (lands new Elegy)

Sample 3
1) Apply Elegy with Horn +1
2) Try to apply Elegy with Horn +1 (reapplies Elegy)

or try it with Soul Voice. you'll get No Effect if you try a non-SV'd Elegy when a SV'd Elegy is on. a SV'd Elegy with Horn +1 will always land (if it's not flat out resisted by the mob) and if you try any less while that one is on you'll get No Effect.

first time i noticed this was when we were doing Fafnir and the other BRD left Horn+1 in the safe after changing jobs. i've also noticed this when noob BRDs come to trial events with their fancy blue box Kingdom Horns.

[Awoir]

Sample 1
1) Apply Elegy with Horn +1
2) Try to apply Elegy without Horn +1 (no effect)

Sample 2
1) Apply Elegy without Horn +1
2) Try to apply Elegy with Horn +1 (lands new Elegy)

Sample 3
1) Apply Elegy with Horn +1
2) Try to apply Elegy with Horn +1 (reapplies Elegy)

or try it with Soul Voice. you'll get No Effect if you try a non-SV'd Elegy when a SV'd Elegy is on. a SV'd Elegy with Horn +1 will always land (if it's not flat out resisted by the mob) and if you try any less while that one is on you'll get No Effect.

first time i noticed this was when we were doing Fafnir and the other BRD left Horn+1 in the safe after changing jobs. i've also noticed this when noob BRDs come to trial events with their fancy blue box Kingdom Horns.

I have a Kingdom Horn but I only use it for screenshots <_<

[Khamsin]

It's a moot point, but I think you can mess with stats so that happens. But for Hojo potency to be worse than Slow II's, it would have to be on a HNM and you would have to wear like -MND so that the difference is something like -50; I'm guessing that's why we'll never see it happen in a real situation. (Maybe whoever started the rumor was just really weak? =p)

Hojo isn't MND based, and is also a fixed potency. So you'll never be able to tweak Hojo's potency to be worse than Slow II. You can tweak Slow II, however, to make it stronger than Hojo and accomplish the same effect. But you'd want to do that on Ronfaure rabbits, not HNMs.

Why do people still think spells with higher potency will overwrite ones with weaker? Please name one effect in this game that will sometimes overwrite another and sometimes not (and no, slow from a spider is not the same effect as slow from a crawler.)

There's several that overwrite themselves sometimes, and won't other times.

[nivlakian]

Why do people still think spells with higher potency will overwrite ones with weaker? Please name one effect in this game that will sometimes overwrite another and sometimes not (and no, slow from a spider is not the same effect as slow from a crawler.)

The elemental debuffs (burn, shock, etc) work like this. One cast from higher int tiers than what's on the mob will overwrite, one cast from the same int tier reapplies and one cast from lower tiers than what's currently on the mob will have no effect.

[Miruka]

Khamsin: Er, wrote it backward. I meant make Slow II worse than Hojo, obviously. But you know what I mean (now).

Demetrick: I think Ruken used to use them for small-group/solo stuff, so that's why he had them over Melody's - so he can have the +30 evasion stat without needing a Bard.

[DrObvious]

These examples all share something in common, an equal potency cast will overwrite the current cast, while a weaker one will not. However, enfeebles don't work like that. Trying to cast the same spell before it has worn off always leads to "no effect," so there really is no precedent for enfeebles/ninjutsu to overwite based on potency either.

I must admit that I didn't know that about elemental enfeebles or elegy.

[Celeras]

Why do people still think spells with higher potency will overwrite ones with weaker? Please name one effect in this game that will sometimes overwrite another and sometimes not (and no, slow from a spider is not the same effect as slow from a crawler.)

Already mentioned but, an elegy casted with a + weapon will overwrite an elegy casted naked. But if one has a +2 weapon, and the other a +1 weapon, the +2 wont overwrite and get a no effect message.

You lose, sir.