ffxiah.com

[XaocRamuh]

Ok maybe I'm just ignorant, naive, whatever, but didn't the claim-delay SE introduced render botting just as effective as trying to claim without being a jackass botter? Unless SE was stupid enough to let the client know when the window would be open, a 100% server-side claim system where the client sends request to claim, and the packet time stamp is compared to [ 1. is mob currently claimed 2. is time stamp greater than or equal to open window ] would mean a bot is pretty much useless. But wtf do I know, I just stand there and hope my voke doesn't fire too soon or too late...

I'm sure its been tested enough to get an average time before you can claim. I can assume that any modern bot would have some sort of wait or pause command before spamming something.

A random number between 1 and 3 seconds is still too small of a range to be truely 'random'. Its still possible to outpull against a bot, but that percentage is still lower than it should be.

[DrObvious]

Ok maybe I'm just ignorant, naive, whatever, but didn't the claim-delay SE introduced render botting just as effective as trying to claim without being a jackass botter? Unless SE was stupid enough to let the client know when the window would be open, a 100% server-side claim system where the client sends request to claim, and the packet time stamp is compared to [ 1. is mob currently claimed 2. is time stamp greater than or equal to open window ] would mean a bot is pretty much useless. But wtf do I know, I just stand there and hope my voke doesn't fire too soon or too late...

Not this arguement again. Someone cue the Rydiu quote/thread.

Solution: stagger claim actions for each bot. There are many openly botting hnmls, I'm sure they're not dumb enough to all have the same claim delay.

[Krandor]

Ok maybe I'm just ignorant, naive, whatever, but didn't the claim-delay SE introduced render botting just as effective as trying to claim without being a jackass botter? Unless SE was stupid enough to let the client know when the window would be open, a 100% server-side claim system where the client sends request to claim, and the packet time stamp is compared to [ 1. is mob currently claimed 2. is time stamp greater than or equal to open window ] would mean a bot is pretty much useless. But wtf do I know, I just stand there and hope my voke doesn't fire too soon or too late...

I'm sure its been tested enough to get an average time before you can claim. I can assume that any modern bot would have some sort of wait or pause command before spamming something.

A random number between 1 and 3 seconds is still too small of a range to be truely 'random'. Its still possible to outpull against a bot, but that percentage is still lower than it should be.

Claim Window on NMs is variable. Normal mobs is like 2.5 seconds I think, NMs are from 1-2.5 seconds i think, it varies with each pop

[Fhqwghads]

Not this arguement again. Someone cue the Rydiu quote/thread.

Solution: stagger claim actions for each bot. There are many openly botting hnmls, I'm sure they're not dumb enough to all have the same claim delay.

Are there any end-game linkshells that openly advocate its members work together to stagger delay times? How pathetic. I'd figure most shells would at worst have a don't ask/don't tell policy. And I wasn't making an arguement, I was asking a question because I don't know if the changes have an impact on botting.

[Dezzimal]

Are there any end-game linkshells that openly advocate its members work together to stagger delay times?

Ping time works as a randomizer. Say you've got 5 different BLMs set to cast fire at the immediate moment it pops...they're not all going to cast at the same time, they'll cast at (Pop Time) + (Ping Time) basically. Since your pings to japan are about 200-500 ms (.2-.5 seconds) you'll get a nice variety of claim "tries" there.

I'm also told that a particular program has an option where you can do automatically staggered pulling with instant JA's such as voke/jump by setting up a server and having all the bot clients connect to it.

Welcome to endgame btw.

[XaocRamuh]

Ok maybe I'm just ignorant, naive, whatever, but didn't the claim-delay SE introduced render botting just as effective as trying to claim without being a jackass botter? Unless SE was stupid enough to let the client know when the window would be open, a 100% server-side claim system where the client sends request to claim, and the packet time stamp is compared to [ 1. is mob currently claimed 2. is time stamp greater than or equal to open window ] would mean a bot is pretty much useless. But wtf do I know, I just stand there and hope my voke doesn't fire too soon or too late...

I'm sure its been tested enough to get an average time before you can claim. I can assume that any modern bot would have some sort of wait or pause command before spamming something.

A random number between 1 and 3 seconds is still too small of a range to be truely 'random'. Its still possible to outpull against a bot, but that percentage is still lower than it should be.

Claim Window on NMs is variable. Normal mobs is like 2.5 seconds I think, NMs are from 1-2.5 seconds i think, it varies with each pop

But thats still a small enough portion of data to be able to 'guess' when it will be claimable; so a bot is still going to be functional. A larger pool of numbers will reduce the chance a bot can guess correctly, but thats just not a feasible option in an MMO environment; who wants to sit for 0~2 minutes waiting for the mob to be claimable...

[Eaglestrike]

Not this arguement again. Someone cue the Rydiu quote/thread.

Solution: stagger claim actions for each bot. There are many openly botting hnmls, I'm sure they're not dumb enough to all have the same claim delay.

Are there any end-game linkshells that openly advocate its members work together to stagger delay times? How pathetic. I'd figure most shells would at worst have a don't ask/don't tell policy. And I wasn't making an arguement, I was asking a question because I don't know if the changes have an impact on botting.

We have an LS like this on Shiva. Everyone <3's them

[Jahuran]

Ok maybe I'm just ignorant, naive, whatever, but didn't the claim-delay SE introduced render botting just as effective as trying to claim without being a jackass botter? Unless SE was stupid enough to let the client know when the window would be open, a 100% server-side claim system where the client sends request to claim, and the packet time stamp is compared to [ 1. is mob currently claimed 2. is time stamp greater than or equal to open window ] would mean a bot is pretty much useless. But wtf do I know, I just stand there and hope my voke doesn't fire too soon or too late...

I'm sure its been tested enough to get an average time before you can claim. I can assume that any modern bot would have some sort of wait or pause command before spamming something.

A random number between 1 and 3 seconds is still too small of a range to be truely 'random'. Its still possible to outpull against a bot, but that percentage is still lower than it should be.

Claim Window on NMs is variable. Normal mobs is like 2.5 seconds I think, NMs are from 1-2.5 seconds i think, it varies with each pop

But thats still a small enough portion of data to be able to 'guess' when it will be claimable; so a bot is still going to be functional. A larger pool of numbers will reduce the chance a bot can guess correctly, but thats just not a feasible option in an MMO environment; who wants to sit for 0~2 minutes waiting for the mob to be claimable...

If you can wait 3 hours for a pop 2 minutes of spamming till it finally becomes claimable won't kill you. I don't think alot of linkshells will have issues with camping 182 minutes instead of 180minutes 30secs.

[XaocRamuh]

If you can wait 3 hours for a pop 2 minutes of spamming till it finally becomes claimable won't kill you. I don't think alot of linkshells will have issues with camping 182 minutes instead of 180minutes 30secs.

I don't wait; and neither does my LS. Competing against 3 other LSs that bot, when your shell is small anyways results in dismal returns on camp rates.

It's not the fact that "Hey we're here for 3 hours anyways, what's 2 more minutes", its the fact that with such a small sample of numbers to chose from, a program will always have an advantage over a human.

[aurik]

They should just make it a lottery process when it spawns. As long as you make a claiming action in the first 5 seconds, you are assigned a random number, like casting lots. After 5 seconds are passed, the hnm becomes claimed to the person with the highest random number.

This would make bots somewhat pointless.

[Tythera]

They should just make it a lottery process when it spawns. As long as you make a claiming action in the first 5 seconds, you are assigned a random number, like casting lots. After 5 seconds are passed, the hnm becomes claimed to the person with the highest random number.

This would make bots somewhat pointless.

I'd sort of like to see something like that but then that goes to the issue of linkshells bringing mules, dual boxed accounts, etc so they have 50 people to get randoms in. That'd make for a good 300+ person Aery. Don't get me wrong though, for linkshells that primarily don't bot and don't condone it (I use primarily since you can never be sure) a system like this would end up yielding a better claim chance even if they only had 1/2 the people compared to some of the other linkshells present. I'd rather dual boxed characters and mules be the only advantage rather than bots, removed files, etc.

[aurik]

They should just make it a lottery process when it spawns. As long as you make a claiming action in the first 5 seconds, you are assigned a random number, like casting lots. After 5 seconds are passed, the hnm becomes claimed to the person with the highest random number.

This would make bots somewhat pointless.

I'd sort of like to see something like that but then that goes to the issue of linkshells bringing mules, dual boxed accounts, etc so they have 50 people to get randoms in. That'd make for a good 300+ person Aery. Don't get me wrong though, for linkshells that primarily don't bot and don't condone it (I use primarily since you can never be sure) a system like this would end up yielding a better claim chance even if they only had 1/2 the people compared to some of the other linkshells present. I'd rather dual boxed characters and mules be the only advantage rather than bots, removed files, etc.

As it is, people bring 2nd/3rd accounts to bot on anyway. Why not give everyone, period, a chance instead of just everyone who runs a bot plus the select few that have fafnir's model load right away?

[Tythera]

They should just make it a lottery process when it spawns. As long as you make a claiming action in the first 5 seconds, you are assigned a random number, like casting lots. After 5 seconds are passed, the hnm becomes claimed to the person with the highest random number.

This would make bots somewhat pointless.

I'd sort of like to see something like that but then that goes to the issue of linkshells bringing mules, dual boxed accounts, etc so they have 50 people to get randoms in. That'd make for a good 300+ person Aery. Don't get me wrong though, for linkshells that primarily don't bot and don't condone it (I use primarily since you can never be sure) a system like this would end up yielding a better claim chance even if they only had 1/2 the people compared to some of the other linkshells present. I'd rather dual boxed characters and mules be the only advantage rather than bots, removed files, etc.

As it is, people bring 2nd/3rd accounts to bot on anyway. Why not give everyone, period, a chance instead of just everyone who runs a bot plus the select few that have fafnir's model load right away?

Yeah, I agree though I guess the start of my post started somewhere else. A system like that would be good as it takes everything but a "random" number generator and sheer amount of people out of the equation.

[Ishido]

It's a good idea, because if you think about it technically, it can only make your odds of claiming better. Sadly the zerg statement is true, you would probably get a ton of LS with 50 members in Aery for a better chance to claim.

edit: I forgot, it won't make your chance of claiming better if you're one of the people who bot right now.

[Lordwafik]

They should just make it a lottery process when it spawns. As long as you make a claiming action in the first 5 seconds, you are assigned a random number, like casting lots. After 5 seconds are passed, the hnm becomes claimed to the person with the highest random number.

This would make bots somewhat pointless.

That's not a bad idea, my suggestion would however be a 24h lockout, so those who were in the party at any given moment wont be able to join in the fight, or cure anyone fighting that same NM.
- Prevents monopoly
- Prevents smallscale NM whoring
- However does not prevent larger LS's from splitting into groups to get NMs.

This way however, if someone actually brings a voke mule and it wins, they cant use it the next day, they'll have to buy more voke bots to win claim on an internet dragon.

[XaocRamuh]

But, the internet dragon is real; because whatever is on the internet is always the truth and real.

[Jer]

They should just make it a lottery process when it spawns. As long as you make a claiming action in the first 5 seconds, you are assigned a random number, like casting lots. After 5 seconds are passed, the hnm becomes claimed to the person with the highest random number.

This would make bots somewhat pointless.

That's not a bad idea, my suggestion would however be a 24h lockout, so those who were in the party at any given moment wont be able to join in the fight, or cure anyone fighting that same NM.
- Prevents monopoly
- Prevents smallscale NM whoring
- However does not prevent larger LS's from splitting into groups to get NMs.

This way however, if someone actually brings a voke mule and it wins, they cant use it the next day, they'll have to buy more voke bots to win claim on an internet dragon.

This is something that I thought should be in place for atleast ones that CFH on them. Seeing a LS either claim it, or gank it from somebody fighting, only to call for help on it because they can't kill it makes baby jesus cry.

[Kyreth]

They should just make it a lottery process when it spawns. As long as you make a claiming action in the first 5 seconds, you are assigned a random number, like casting lots. After 5 seconds are passed, the hnm becomes claimed to the person with the highest random number.

This would make bots somewhat pointless.

I'd sort of like to see something like that but then that goes to the issue of linkshells bringing mules, dual boxed accounts, etc so they have 50 people to get randoms in. That'd make for a good 300+ person Aery. Don't get me wrong though, for linkshells that primarily don't bot and don't condone it (I use primarily since you can never be sure) a system like this would end up yielding a better claim chance even if they only had 1/2 the people compared to some of the other linkshells present. I'd rather dual boxed characters and mules be the only advantage rather than bots, removed files, etc.

As it is, people bring 2nd/3rd accounts to bot on anyway. Why not give everyone, period, a chance instead of just everyone who runs a bot plus the select few that have fafnir's model load right away?

Oddly enough, I had a similar idea a few weeks back, only instead of "lotting" claim attempts, the NM/HNM widescanned the area and randomly chose a target to aggro on that it detected.

Most people's response was that this would cause people to flood the zone with people to get a better chance at claim. Honestly, I still think any client-side claim method that allows a chance for all is hackable and hence inherently unfair. Let Fafhogg choose his initial choice of tasty snack instead.

[Kyreth]

They should just make it a lottery process when it spawns. As long as you make a claiming action in the first 5 seconds, you are assigned a random number, like casting lots. After 5 seconds are passed, the hnm becomes claimed to the person with the highest random number.

This would make bots somewhat pointless.

That's not a bad idea, my suggestion would however be a 24h lockout, so those who were in the party at any given moment wont be able to join in the fight, or cure anyone fighting that same NM.
- Prevents monopoly
- Prevents smallscale NM whoring
- However does not prevent larger LS's from splitting into groups to get NMs.

This way however, if someone actually brings a voke mule and it wins, they cant use it the next day, they'll have to buy more voke bots to win claim on an internet dragon.

Just give anyone on the hate list the equivalent of Tonberry/Apakallu hate and have monsters go into "bezerker mode" immediately if one of it's least favorite people is on the aggro list and has picked up enough NM-hate. Attack up, nastier WS'es, defense up, nastier spells, etc.

Have hate decay at a set rate per monster. Voila, you've just introduced a control to NM/HNM's being claimed repeatedly by the same characters. Sure, characters can rotate through if an LS has enough smaller groups to take down the monster in question, but this way they'll have to have a fresh bunch of faces doing the work after an arbitary period of time.

[Matricide]

i get sad everytime someone brings up a new interesting idea (/random on whoever did an action) cause i just cant see SE giving a shit about any decent suggestions, ever.