Jaded GM, or end of shift?

[Zigma]

3rd zigma, my name isnt Sonofabitch but Symanovitch if you cant read that then better get your glasses thx

SY MAN O VITCH,


how is that not son of a bitch?

[Aodh]

I'll post the SS when I get home, but there's another GM who made an equally inapproiate comment. Our LS had been planning to fight Vrtra one night, someone told someone else and as a result, two other LSs teamed up to try to kill it 2-3 hours before our LS. We were gathering outside the warp down and had a scout party to watch them. They ended up wiping while it was still in the 90s%. Our LS went down and engaged when we were planning. The other two LSs stayed around and crowded us while we were trying to fight. There were 40-45 in our LS there, and over 150 people 70+ in KRT. Can't kite running into people, can't target adds when they don't draw on the screen, so our leader called a GM. In shout the GM said everyone should get back and stay against the wall. We started calling out people that weren't following the GM's request to which he responded, in shout, "Cry me a river."

We weren't as a LS expecting the GM to do much if anything, but when the GMs sided with us that the others were intentionally lagging us and their requests aren't being followed something should have been done.

On tone, there is a process you can use to complain to the GM's boss directly, I talked to a SGM about it after this incident, have those SS's too. If the thread is still going when I'm home from work I'll post them all up.

**Edit: Someone in our LS has over 150 GM calls I believe (according to the event moogle) He knows most of the GMs/SGMs and can usually get them to do something.

[Endo]

Some of you claiming to applaud the behavior are so full of shit because you would be crying as well if the same thing had happened to you. Should we que up the multiple threads about xx ls stole xxx hnm from us on xx date as it went unclaimed? The fact that the mob goes unclaimed, weather you can cheerfully duplicate it snowflake or w/e gay comment you came up with makes no diffrence if its not acting as intended. When a part of the game is not acting as intended (and you can go off the updates and material released by SE themselves to try to determine what has changed ect) then I would think you should at least notify a GM who then make an anotation during their shift as to issues that came up on X server. If it is something they can not handle, or do not mess with he should have at least let Sym ano vitch (sonofabitch?) know that and to place the report with the online feedback section. Sym.. should not have been such a jerk when talking to him though if he wanted 100% courtesy back.

Well, that person was whining like a little bitch. I admit, I didn't read the rest of the thread

Thanks for adding so much to the thread and please dont shoot up my harddrive E-thug

These may be boards ran by good ole engrish speaking people but the community you cater to is composed of multiple languages. The fact that he makes an attempt to not totally butcher the language should be at least respected and not attacked.

To sum it up the GM was rude and abrassive. A GM is not there to fix anything and most of you are correct, but they are hired outside of SE to perform customer service for the clients in game and I can guarantee that they have a customer service oriented boss. The GM in my opinion should have at least acknowledged the problem and pointed him the right direction (of course as sym came up with some asshole comments himself it probably put the GM on defensive) being the online feedback or bug report thing.

[Byrd]

GM>> How do you know they sell gil? We can't ban them if we can't prove it.
Player>> But I know and everyone knows, we watch them, they stoled our nms all the time!
<Player> this gm is so gay, they definitely get money from IGE.

I spent some time as a fast food manager. Every once in a while, you'd get some customer who was so irate that his fries were cold or whatnot, that he'd threaten to sue. In the instant that a customer threatened to sue, his credibility dropped about 50% in my eyes. I would imagine complaining about gilsellers to a GM as a similar comparison. It's tired, trite, hollow, overused and, ultimately, it only makes you look like a dipshit. If you've got a complaint about RMT, file a complaint in the suggestion inbox. If you're trying to get them banned, find something else the GM's can act on. Otherwise, it's not worth your time.

[divisortheory]

they are hired outside of SE to perform customer service for the clients in game and I can guarantee that they have a customer service oriented boss.

That's where you're wrong. When you make a GM call, do you remember what the option says that you click on in the Help Desk menu to place the GM call? There's two ways to get a GM. One of them is the following option:

I want to report a violation of the Terms of Service.

The second is the following option:

My character is stuck in game and/or my controls aren't working.

I don't remember the exact wording, but that's pretty close. Those are the only two things GMs will do something about. If you call a GM for anything other than those two things, you are wasting the GM's time. Does it matter that the person wasn't calling GM because of the stolen claim, but rather because the claim went yellow? No, because claim going yellow still doesn't fall under either of the categories above. "But it's a bug and should be dealt with". Terrific, but do you see anything in the above two options about reporting bugs?

GMs are not there to act as customer service, they are there to remedy the above two situations when they occur.

[Khamsin]

they are hired outside of SE to perform customer service for the clients in game and I can guarantee that they have a customer service oriented boss.

That's where you're wrong. When you make a GM call, do you remember what the option says that you click on in the Help Desk menu to place the GM call? There's two ways to get a GM. One of them is the following option:

I want to report a violation of the Terms of Service.

The second is the following option:

My character is stuck in game and/or my controls aren't working.

I don't remember the exact wording, but that's pretty close. Those are the only two things GMs will do something about. If you call a GM for anything other than those two things, you are wasting the GM's time. Does it matter that the person wasn't calling GM because of the stolen claim, but rather because the claim went yellow? No, because claim going yellow still doesn't fall under either of the categories above. "But it's a bug and should be dealt with". Terrific, but do you see anything in the above two options about reporting bugs?

GMs are not there to act as customer service, they are there to remedy the above two situations when they occur.

However, RMT is against the TOS, therefore they can still call a GM on them. They just should focus on the part about them being RMT, rather than the fact that it went yellow.

[divisortheory]

However, RMT is against the TOS, therefore they can still call a GM on them. They just should focus on the part about them being RMT, rather than the fact that it went yellow.

How do you prove they're RMT again? Oh wait, you can't, therefore you're wasting the GM's time. Even using the 3 letters RMT back to back in a sentence to a GM constitutes "wasting the GM's time" in my opinion. It's like going to a professor of art history and saying you developed this new theory to revolutionze the world of mathematical biology, and you want him to look over it and see what he thinks. What the fuck do you expect him to do about it?

[Khamsin]

However, RMT is against the TOS, therefore they can still call a GM on them. They just should focus on the part about them being RMT, rather than the fact that it went yellow.

How do you prove they're RMT again? Oh wait, you can't, therefore you're wasting the GM's time. Even using the 3 letters RMT back to back in a sentence to a GM constitutes "wasting the GM's time" in my opinion. It's like going to a professor of art history and saying you developed this new theory to revolutionze the world of mathematical biology, and you want him to look over it and see what he thinks. What the fuck do you expect them to do about it?

Well, that's up to the GM and SE to investigate and find that proof. The Help Desk doesn't say to call a GM if you have proof of someone violating the TOS. It just says to call a GM if they are violating it. You've done your part by telling the GM someone is RMT. It's up to them to prove it. If they do nothing, and therefore its a waste of time, its not your fault, its theirs.

[Laeta]

Except you're calling a GM because you think they are RMT.

You have the following against them:
1) They camp NMs a lot
2) They camp the same NMs a lot
3) They are Chinese
4) When you screw up and lose claim, they take it from you. (Ulli is a painfully easy NM to steal btw.)

None of those 4 either proves they are RMT, or gives you any reasonable cause to suspect they are RMT or call a GM.

You are calling a GM because they beat you. End of story. Why don't you just accept that you can't ban based on hunches (which is all that a GM can never get until the RMT offers to sell you gil in-game without any sort of promt) and welcome the challenge that RMT presents in FFXI.

[divisortheory]

Are you seriously telling me that you've been playing this game 2+ years and you still haven't figured out that GMs cannot and will not do anything at all when you talk about RMT? I'm really being serious now, you still haven't figured that out?

If you have figured it out, I can only assume comments about RMT are meant solely to annoy the GM, and if so you are expecting them to respond politely when your intention is to go out of your way to annoy them. That's asking a bit too much, I think.

[Khamsin]

Except you're calling a GM because you think they are RMT.

You have the following against them:
1) They camp NMs a lot
2) They camp the same NMs a lot
3) They are Chinese
4) When you screw up and lose claim, they take it from you. (Ulli is a painfully easy NM to steal btw.)

None of those 4 either proves they are RMT, or gives you any reasonable cause to suspect they are RMT or call a GM.

You are calling a GM because they beat you. End of story. Why don't you just accept that you can't ban based on hunches (which is all that a GM can never get until the RMT offers to sell you gil in-game without any sort of promt) and welcome the challenge that RMT presents in FFXI.

Just because we can't prove it doesn't mean they don't exist, and doesn't mean they aren't violating the TOS.

I understand the principle behind needing proof, but on the other hand, there are some people that are blatantly obvious RMT that you see all the time (such as the old zooe's of Pandy, or the angelove crew, or any number of those new batches of rank 5 taru BLMs manaburning in altepa in waves). Some of them even admit it. And to deny that any of them are RMT (aside from out of principle) is retarded.

I know the GMs never do anything, but I'm not arguing that it isn't a waste of time to call them about RMT. I'm only arguing that you do have a valid reason to make the call based on the text in the Help Desk menu. It says to call to report a violation of TOS, and you are doing just that, even if you can't do their job for them and provide proof.

[divisortheory]

Just because we can't prove it doesn't mean they don't exist, and doesn't mean they aren't violating the TOS.

It does, however, mean you are wasting the GM's time when you tell him about it.

[Khamsin]

Just because we can't prove it doesn't mean they don't exist, and doesn't mean they aren't violating the TOS.

It does, however, mean you are wasting the GM's time when you tell him about it.

I'm not arguing that part of it. It's a waste of time even if you did have proof, because the GM will just "investigate" it and the RMT will still be there.

I'm arguing against what you said about the Help Desk menu text. You claimed that reporting RMT for stealing ulli does not fit in with either of the two options for GM calls (which is true). However, reporting RMT for being RMT does fit one of the two options. It is a TOS violation, proof or not, waste of time or not.

[Laeta]

I can call a GM for anything I want. So what?

Also, how do you know that they're "blatently obvious"? The only thing that is blatently obvious is there is a group of chinese players with mispelled names who camp NMs a lot. Anything else is not proof, or a hunch (you don't even have anything to back up your hunch)

You say you know GMs won't do anything, but somehow you arn't wasting their time... It seems rather contradictory to me.

[divisortheory]

I'm not arguing that part of it. It's a waste of time even if you did have proof, because the GM will just "investigate" it and the RMT will still be there.

Every time I've reported someone for speedhacking, gilseller or not, they were gone minutes later. That is something you can prove easily.

Common sense dictates that the statement on the Help Desk means "violations of the Terms of Service that can be substantiated".

[Aodh]

RMT Characters share a lot in common in behaviour and appearance, it's painfully obvious to people who play the game as the people who rant on boards like this do.

Hints include:
- Gear which can be purchased from NPCs for cheap, never HQs or crafted. Usually a lot lower than their character's level.
- Gear slots left empty, usually belt, back and neck. (These slots are usually useless gear or very expensive gear, not worth the RMT's time to put something in.)
- Dispite the Level of the characters, they are ALL always anon. (Think about the last time you were in an EXP party where all the members were anon.)
- EXP parties usually consist of a NIN, THF, RDM and 3 BLMs.
- Usually Rank 1 until it's needed for them to rankup to camp or EXP in places. Rank 6 for Sky etc.
- Subjobs optional, even at Lv30+.
- Same characters at the same NMs 24/7, usually AFK or botted.

Now with all those things, there are legitimate players which may on occation fall under the above. And of all the things above, NONE of them are against the ToS, so while it may be obvious there's nothing a GM can justify doing.

Monopolizing NM rule is very very very lax. A GM explained it to someone in my LS as "Unless they tell you to leave and that the NM is theirs, or put Galka's blocking you from getting to the NM, there's nothing they can do." (Yes the GM said Galka's blocking the path).

All this being said, I think the GMs need "Gilseller Training" where they look for the obvious signs of possible Power Level for Hire or Gilsellers and take them to Jail, see where it goes from there and ban pre-emtivly. When you know what to look for, the chances they get a legitimate player is very very small.

[Eternus]

It is hard to prove someone is actually a RMT. You will need involvement of real money to tell that. Otherwise they can say they are giving players gil or some other crappy excuse. Pretend like they are overly generous. You need proof someone is getting real money for the gil they are giving to players in game. The best way would be for SE to set up a sting operation where they actually buy gil themselves.

[Carbon]

Best GM ever, lol. Hands fucking down.

Honestly. Need more GMs that tell it like it is. I love it.

qft

[Laeta]

He is right about monopoly of NMs. A monopoly is defined as dominate by excluding others. It's not against the ToS to 'dominate' NMs by doing better on claims/taking when you lose claim/etc. It is against the ToS to exclude others. Which in FFXI is pretty hard to do. You would literally have to visit your house and turn of your computer, because they cant stop you from walking into Ullikumi's Aery.

[Khamsin]

I can call a GM for anything I want. So what?

Also, how do you know that they're "blatently obvious"? The only thing that is blatently obvious is there is a group of chinese players with mispelled names who camp NMs a lot. Anything else is not proof, or a hunch (you don't even have anything to back up your hunch)

You say you know GMs won't do anything, but somehow you arn't wasting their time... It seems rather contradictory to me.

I never said you weren't wasting their time. And divisortheory said you can't call a GM for anything you want, just to report a violation of the TOS (e.g. RMT, fleehacking, etc.) and for being stuck/controls not working.