Jaded GM, or end of shift?

[miokomioko]

This is not a bash on SE, as I don't fault them for having their hands tied. But here's the mystery that baffles me. Maybe an aspiring lawyer can answer this.

Why is it so difficult for MMORPG's to absolutely crush RMT companies? Napster infringing on copyrights got knocked the hell out. So I'm just absolutely floored that <insert mmorpg company> can't take IGE to the freaking cleaners. No, IGE isn't reading/accepting disclaimers like we are, but it's still not their intellectual property to profit from. I'm no lawyer, and seeing that nothing's been done I imagine there's GOT to be some weird rule that lets IGE slide by unscathed - which makes me very sad.
And no, I don't believe the whole SE+IGE=drinking buddies theory.

I had to study this type of law (contract/copyright/intellectualproperty/etc) for being a photographer and almost all this same crap applies to this game considering we all are bound by a contract while everyone loves to pretend they can sue SE for unfair business practices. Anyhow...

Being based in Japan, there are most likely a shitload of legal hoops to jump through to bring a civil lawsuit against these companies that are run in the states. Unless somewhere in the ToS or User Agreement says that if there is a dispute, that it will be tried in a japanese court of law, it really is almost never worth it to bring such a litigation. Not to mention being the plaintiff, you have the burden of proof, which in this case would have to be proof that RMT organizations are hurting their profits, and deserve to pay SE's economic damages, not the easiest thing to calculate into cold hard facts with the massive amount of variables involved in such an online service. On top of that, these shady companies would never respond to the lawsuit coming from Japan, so a judgement would be made and it would be years before SE ever saw any damages collected.

Until their economists can do the math and decide that they are actually getting less money over time (losing more customers than RMT groups brings in) by turning the other cheek, there really is no business-smart reason to bring down the iron fist on possibly innocent players and just hope the damage they do to their own profits is temporary.

Retarded analogy, but bear with me... Imagine someone keeps breaking into your house at night but you've never caught or even seen them. Doesn't take anything, but leaves $100 each time, which just you take. Breaking and entering is a punishable crime, but do you want to stop the $100s from coming in? It would make your living situation awkward, especially for others in the household and you'd have to take into account how the stranger in your home would affect your relationship etc considering they aren't getting $100.

Sue for intentional emotional distress for $x. Or get a steady profit of $100. You'd have to figure out what's more profitable in the longrun... or in the length of time that you'll be at that address (the length of time FFXI will be around)


The structure of this post fell apart. I give up, I hope there's a point in there somewhere.

[Unklemonkey]

Retarded metaphor, but bear with me... Imagine someone keeps breaking into your house at night but you've never caught or even seen them. Doesn't take anything, but leaves $100 each time, which just you take. Breaking and entering is a punishable crime, but do you want to stop the $100s from coming in? It would make your living situation awkward, especially for others in the household and you'd have to take into account how the stranger in your home would affect your relationship etc considering they aren't getting $100.

For that metaphor to work the person breaking in would have to be raping the other people in the house. Rmt dosn't make FFXI awkward, they make sky intolerable.

[shotgn]

The homeowner in the analogy is SE, not the playerbase, unfortunately for you.

[Ryko]

So your tenant's asshole is a bit raw, it's a fucking benjamin.

[Priran]

The homeowner in the analogy is SE, not the playerbase, unfortunately for you.

he said "other people in the house", unfortunately for you.

[divisortheory]

YOU WANNA FUCKING SEE WHOS ELITE?

Wow, that is fucking hilarious lol.

[miokomioko]

The homeowner in the analogy is SE, not the playerbase, unfortunately for you.

he said "other people in the house", unfortunately for you.

"other people in the house" = SE's paying customers that they need to maintain a relationship with

[Ryko]

YOU WANNA FUCKING SEE WHOS ELITE?

Wow, that is fucking hilarious lol.

Yeah fairy sure gets the good ones.

[Priran]

The homeowner in the analogy is SE, not the playerbase, unfortunately for you.

he said "other people in the house", unfortunately for you.

"other people in the house" = SE's paying customers that they need to maintain a relationship with

exactly, which is why his statement that "the homeowner is SE" ruins the analogy is incorrect.

the robber is raping the other people in the house. RMT rape the playerbase. in neither case does the administrative body lose anything of their own to capitalize on your anal virginity.

[Sixtail]

Like it was said, last time SE nuked accounts with shitloads of gil on them, LS banks and a few bling-bling crafters went up in the fire too and we had endless "FUCK SE." and i'm sure Customer Serivce had to deal with that shit to boot.

If Blizzard who actively hunts down RMT's, banned most of Greater East Asia's IP's and does everything short of dispatching hit sqauds into the alleys of Hong Kong can't stop RMT's, how can SE? You know what will happen if they ban every person with a funny name? Your going to get some legit people in the mix and not only will the RMT's just learn to blend in better, but they could just load up on the countless characters up for sale everywhere.

The FFXI playerbase isn't ready for the type of measures SE would have to take to knock the RMT's out and keep them out. Never mind the game itself is -made- for RMT's. This isn't WOW where any idiot can farm himself all the gold he'd like and all the uber shit can be gotten by a good clan in a encounter that no one else can fuck with.

SE needs to just make Sky nm's pop every 20 mins and put in GOOD rare/ex shit. The only way you'll damage the RMT's enough to get them to leave is if you take away their main reason for being there.

[Khamsin]

This is not a bash on SE, as I don't fault them for having their hands tied. But here's the mystery that baffles me. Maybe an aspiring lawyer can answer this.

Why is it so difficult for MMORPG's to absolutely crush RMT companies? Napster infringing on copyrights got knocked the hell out. So I'm just absolutely floored that <insert mmorpg company> can't take IGE to the freaking cleaners. No, IGE isn't reading/accepting disclaimers like we are, but it's still not their intellectual property to profit from. I'm no lawyer, and seeing that nothing's been done I imagine there's GOT to be some weird rule that lets IGE slide by unscathed - which makes me very sad.
And no, I don't believe the whole SE+IGE=drinking buddies theory.

1) SE can't really prove any actual monetary damage IGE is doing to the game. When you go to civil court, you say what compensation you want and then justify why you deserve it.
2) It costs a lot to hire lawyers
3) The potential for recouping the costs of the lawyers is low
4) The difference, for SE, between ignoring IGE and aggressively attacking them is actually fairly minor.

Simple solution then, to get around that legal aspect:

SE, in addition to explicitly stating that RMT is not allowed by anyone other than SE, implements their own official RMT for the nominal price of $1 per 1 gil. Now, no one will ever buy gil through SE, and when the RMT try to do it, SE can sue them and ask for their profits as compensation, because they stole SE's customers when SE has sole right to sell gil.

[Devek]

YOU WANNA FUCKING SEE WHOS ELITE?

Wow, that is fucking hilarious lol.

Yeah fairy sure gets the good ones.

Hory shit..

You may be experts at a game(esp. at cheating and botting LoO), but me and my friends are experts at TCP/IP and UDP, and just in case your dumb ass can't translate those acronyms - they mean the INTERNET.

If that guy ever figures out the internet is actually a series of tubes, we may all be doomed.

[Ryko]

This reply wins that fucking thread so hard.

[Highlulu]

This is not a bash on SE, as I don't fault them for having their hands tied. But here's the mystery that baffles me. Maybe an aspiring lawyer can answer this.

Why is it so difficult for MMORPG's to absolutely crush RMT companies? Napster infringing on copyrights got knocked the hell out. So I'm just absolutely floored that <insert mmorpg company> can't take IGE to the freaking cleaners. No, IGE isn't reading/accepting disclaimers like we are, but it's still not their intellectual property to profit from. I'm no lawyer, and seeing that nothing's been done I imagine there's GOT to be some weird rule that lets IGE slide by unscathed - which makes me very sad.
And no, I don't believe the whole SE+IGE=drinking buddies theory.

i believe it's because IGE's main officer is based in hong kong who's laws are different, SE can't really touch them.

as for that "contract" that you agree to every time you log into the game goes... that shit doesn't hold up in court at all. the courts consider it a illegal contract because you were FORCED to agree and thus didn't really agree to it. it's just there to scare people away from doing anything when SE decides to act up.

that being said as a company SE does have the right to refuse service to anyone they see fit.

[aurik]

This reply wins that fucking thread so hard.

That alphabits comment is fucking priceless.

[miokomioko]

i believe it's because IGE's main officer is based in hong kong who's laws are different, SE can't really touch them.

as for that "contract" that you agree to every time you log into the game goes... that shit doesn't hold up in court at all. the courts consider it a illegal contract because you were FORCED to agree and thus didn't really agree to it. it's just there to scare people away from doing anything when SE decides to act up.

that being said as a company SE does have the right to refuse service to anyone they see fit.

1) There is a plethora of international treaties that you can go through to bring a lawsuit to just about anyone in any major country. One being the Berne Convention. Yes, China joined the Berne Convention, as did most countries. It's an international copyright treaty because business, if you believe it or not, is existing between parties that aren't both inside the United States.

2) It's not a "contract" it's a contract. They are Terms of Service and User Agreement contracts and no one is forcing you to agree to them whatsoever. You wanted to install their software that you payed to borrow (not own) and you wanted to utilize their service, so you agreed to it. Purchasing the software doesn't give you rights to do anything you want with it, try reading the crap you agree to before you check the box that says "I understand and agree to everything explained in the Terms of Service agreement." Good luck getting a cellular phone service without signing a contract. Good luck getting any service for that matter without signing a contract that protects their business from lawsuit-happy fucks.

3) A contract is only illegal if the subject matter (activity contracted or tangible substance bartered) itself is illegal. Such as someone contracting an assassin, and/or the sale of illegal substances.

[edit] why does my shit always land on a new page :/

[Symanovitch]

okie just posting what i got yesterday to end the story: (even though it got total derailed but wahts new in BG)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...h/img_0044.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...h/img_0048.jpg

[Sheeny]

I hope by "the GM will be addressed" means they'll throw him a keg party.

This bites that Archantion got busted. Now I'm too depressed to have his babies.

Thanks a lot Symanovitch, you stoled my buzz. =(

[Symanovitch]

sowwy ('-'*)

[Minions]

That guys so gay, leave the gm be. guy desrves that reaction.