TGS Developers RMT Discussion

[Khamsin]

Or if IGE's lawyers are better than SE's.. they may win the right to operate in everygame.

I would hope the decision is based more on the law than how good the lawyer is at getting their way.

[layoneil]

So they lose more money than they gain in a one-time operation to eliminate all gilselling companies. At least it'll finally be over, and they won't have to deal with gilsellers ever again, even if they did have to pay a big chunk for it to happen.

Unless you meant lose more money than they gain, and still not eliminate gilsellers.

you can't sue "all gilselling companies" all at once, the world just doesn't work like that. you sue IGE and you take IGE down. and the same guys that are running it will start up another company.

[Kurp]

Or if IGE's lawyers are better than SE's.. they may win the right to operate in everygame.

I would hope the decision is based more on the law than how good the lawyer is at getting their way.

People hope and wish, but they end up filling their hand with something else.

[Blinkwise]

In order to totally annihilate all illegal activities (Especially against 3rd party software-Bots,Hacks), we're going to try hard to employ all resources to combat them. Please note that we're serious about it.

Sounds like from that that they might do what WoW did with that part of their TOS that lets them scan your computer. >< hope they also allow a windowed mode of the game if this is the case. I dont see how i could play the game w/o being able to talk on aim, look at these forums, or check e-mail while lfp.

[Lithiani]

You can pick up a low-spec box and a KVM switch and do that for very cheap indeed.

[Kross]

Getting rid of RMT is easy.

Have SE make a "dummy" account, buy gil with it. Get info, Ban the fucking guy who sells it to you.

Police hire minors to buy cigarettes at stores all the time, this is the same principle.

[Khamsin]

So they lose more money than they gain in a one-time operation to eliminate all gilselling companies. At least it'll finally be over, and they won't have to deal with gilsellers ever again, even if they did have to pay a big chunk for it to happen.

Unless you meant lose more money than they gain, and still not eliminate gilsellers.

you can't sue "all gilselling companies" all at once, the world just doesn't work like that. you sue IGE and you take IGE down. and the same guys that are running it will start up another company.

They need to invent something like the Class Action Lawsuit, only in reverse. One person suing an entire class of companies.

[Tekki]

I've always felt that going after IGE could make things worse.

Yes I agree taking them out via legal means could knock out huge chunk if RMT activity but it really seems like a temp. solution to a huge problem and over time it could get worse.

Think about it, poof IGE is gone. Do you know how many other RMT sites are online other then IGE? Yes quite a few are under that IGE parent company umbrellla but how many are not? Theres so many of those smaller sites all over the place. Cruise around other FFXI community sites and check them out.

If anything knocking IGE out could make things worse. The RMT activity would slow suddenly but the price of gil will shoot through the roof. Eventually the RMTs would have to find a new buyer (sites). Eventually they will get back on their feet and establish new buyers(sites). With the spike in price RMT acitvity would grow with the attractive new high price. Its just vicious cycle that stops at one point: the buying players.

Thats the ultimate source of the problem are the buyers. As much as ppl say "RMTs are in every MMO" I think a more correct statement that sums up the problem is "There are always currency buyers in every MMO". As long as their is that establish demand created by the game or any desire for players to buy stuff from RMTs there will alway be a problem. Do I know of a solution other then eliminating the need for a currecy and making everything rare/ex? (Or getting pretty close to that like WoW) Nope

[layoneil]

Getting rid of RMT is easy.

Have SE make a "dummy" account, buy gil with it. Get info, Ban the fucking guy who sells it to you.

Police hire minors to buy cigarettes at stores all the time, this is the same principle.

that's one way to go after banks and SE has already been going after banks. but that won't ever ban the people camping Ulli and that's where most of the players have their problem.

They need to invent something like the Class Action Lawsuit, only in reverse. One person suing an entire class of companies.

they do have things similar to that, that's how the government deals with cigarette companies but it really doesn't work for (1) foreign companies, (2) internet companies. the threat of them being shut down is usually not that scary and the smart people would expect it.

I think a more correct statement that sums up the problem is "There are always currency buyers in every MMO".

the more correct statement is "Sloth is one of the seven deadly sins."

[Khamsin]

It doesn't stop at the gilbuyers, it stops at the gilsellers. No one selling gil, no one can buy no matter how great the demand.

Some people suggest throwing the baby out with the bathwater and banning gilbuyers instead (not you Tekki, but I've seen some suggest it). But all that gets you is game with no players, because anyone can buy gil, and I guarantee you that there's a lot more buyers than sellers.

I've made this comparison before, but consider again how drug busts tend to work. Do they go after the addicts or the dealers and cartels? Why? Answer that, and people will begin to understand why you can't just bust the gilbuyers, and instead, must pursue the gilsellers as the real source of the problem. The true root of all evil, so to speak.

[Enkidu]

that's one way to go after banks and SE has already been going after banks. but that won't ever ban the people camping Ulli and that's where most of the players have their problem.

It couldn't be that hard to trace where the said bank recieved the gil.

In that case taking out 1 bank could take out several gil sellers. Even better, they then have "proof" that these people are indeed gil sellers and can then trace their past trading and find even more banks. Assuming the sellers sell gil to multiple sources...

[suji]

that's one way to go after banks and SE has already been going after banks. but that won't ever ban the people camping Ulli and that's where most of the players have their problem.

It couldn't be that hard to trace where the said bank recieved the gil.

In that case taking out 1 bank could take out several gil sellers. Even better, they then have "proof" that these people are indeed gil sellers and can then trace their past trading and find even more banks. Assuming the sellers sell gil to multiple sources...

I was thinking about this this morning and, at best, they could only really safely do one degree of separation with the bannings. I mean, the logic would be to ban the account that traded the buyer the gil and any person who has traded IGE bank mule gil. But if you try to ban more than just the last person who traded them, it's very possibly bad if they are using bought accounts anywhere in that process.

If they are using bought accounts for these transactions, then we could all be the target of the banstick if you had traded to your friend's account before it was sold.

So I think this is a good step but that they can't go overboard with it or they'll hit innocent players too (again).

[Fryte]

Out of curiosity, what town in FL is IGE? Maybe I could get a job, d00d.

[SephYuyX]

Prinny Bomb them.

[Zigma]

instead of saying "We'll look/investigate into this matter", they'll say "okay, we have forwarded your complaint to the rmt department", which in a few months we will all say "Blah blah that's what you always say".

[layoneil]

Out of curiosity, what town in FL is IGE? Maybe I could get a job, d00d.

Boca Raton.

[Eternus]

Out of curiosity, what town in FL is IGE? Maybe I could get a job, d00d.

Boca Raton.

That is a wealthy part of Florida.. well alot of Boca is really fucking rich. Need to find out where it is and break out the old Anarchist's cookbook or Jollyroger's. Firebomb that bitch. Either that or just fuck up their power bad enough that it hampers them during the christmas season for at least a couple days. Need to think of legal ways to harass the fuck out of them... that is quite an annoying trip to make from Jacksonville.

[layoneil]

Need to find out where it is and break out the old Anarchist's cookbook or Jollyroger's. Firebomb that bitch. Either that or just fuck up their power bad enough that it hampers them during the christmas season for at least a couple days. Need to think of legal ways to harass the fuck out of them... that is quite an annoying trip to make from Jacksonville.

except you won't find anything there since the actual operations are in Hong Kong.

that address is more than likely for the sole purpose of filing tax returns with the IRS.

[shinobi_tabi]

If SE get rid of gilsellers then I'll return to the game.

return to start selling your gil again? unless all that gil you sold in other thread was because you had quit, then i can understand

[Kuponut]

[quote=shinobi_tabi]

If SE get rid of gilsellers then I'll return to the game.

return to start selling your gil again? unless all that gil you sold in other thread was because you had quit, then i can understand[/quote:44dac]
I think he just wants less competition !