More upcoming job changes (not from Fanfes)

[SephYuyX]

Adding other ridill-like weapons are a good idea, just so long as none of them are better than ridill or allows another job to outparse a well-equipped WAR with a ridill. If that spear lets a DRG outparse a WAR, or if a multi-attacking Futsuno Mitama allows a SAM to outparse a WAR, then no thanks. But bringing them almost up to the level of a ridill WAR isn't a bad idea, and will help kill things faster.

Why should a WAR be the end all best dmg melee class?

[levish]

Adding other ridill-like weapons are a good idea, just so long as none of them are better than ridill or allows another job to outparse a well-equipped WAR with a ridill. If that spear lets a DRG outparse a WAR, or if a multi-attacking Futsuno Mitama allows a SAM to outparse a WAR, then no thanks. But bringing them almost up to the level of a ridill WAR isn't a bad idea, and will help kill things faster.

Why should a WAR be the end all best dmg melee class?

I thought that was a kracken dark with souleater on?

[Robert]

Every 6 minutes?

[Eaglestrike]

Adding other ridill-like weapons are a good idea, just so long as none of them are better than ridill or allows another job to outparse a well-equipped WAR with a ridill. If that spear lets a DRG outparse a WAR, or if a multi-attacking Futsuno Mitama allows a SAM to outparse a WAR, then no thanks. But bringing them almost up to the level of a ridill WAR isn't a bad idea, and will help kill things faster.

Why should a WAR be the end all best dmg melee class?

It shouldn't. Monk should be, that's how that class was in FF1 (though only from what I've read, never finished it lawl). Monk is a pure DD job. War can tank, thief is TH, Nin is able to tank/enfeeble, drg + bird together 'should' be up there, sam is for sc's, Ranger only other job that has a right to be up there with Monk as overall best DD's, but in most FF's you fight flying mobs that non-ranged attacks don't have the acc to hit (think FFX) and the ability to damage things from afar was a bonus in and of itself.

I think the idea of Ridill war > all always is stupid. Ridill war should always be *strong* but not always the best.

[Ryko]

Why should a WAR be the end all best dmg melee class?

because we own like that. People are like "well you can tank", yeah and we tank even better by doing more damage than everyone else >_>

[Khamsin]

You don't want to change the entire balance of the game, do you? All of a sudden letting DRGs, SAMs, DRKs, THFs, etc. outparse WARs (minus the souleater+kraken routine) when before they didn't would just piss a lot of people off, and you'd be putting a ridill WAR in the old DRG position. You aren't really making anything better. That level 15 WHM spell to make everyone 50 feet tall and spit fire and piss lava sounds good right about now, while we're at it.

Instead, if you can bring everyone up *to* or almost to the level of a ridill WAR (such that a team of WAR, DRK, THF, SAM can beat kirin about as fast as 4 WARs) without blatantly outparsing them, that'd be much better. Then everyone is happy. Ridill WARs keep their epeen, everything dies faster, and the other melee get to be invited, too. Naturally, skill and other gear choices will adjust the balance of the ridill WAR and these new multi-attacking weapon DRK, THFs, and SAMs, so its still entirely possible that a WAR without the best gear will fall behind a SAM with the best gear.

But you shouldn't just simply bring them all up to par by giving them all god weapons that alone will cause them to outparse ridill WARs.

[Tordall]

You guys do realize that War/nin with Ridill/Joy or Man/Ridill isn't the best damage output job for Merit parties right?

It's been known for a LONG time that Bst/nin with Man/Temp using LifeDrinkerLars outparses Wars with Ridill by something like 20% (assuming the rest of the gear is simliar). The problem with this for beastmasters is that they're spending 800k an hour on jug pets & have to farm for rare/ex ammo to feed the temperance axe.

If they give beastmasters 5 levels of bst affinity so they can use Fungars like CourierCarries, that goes a LONG way to making another DD that's equivalent to a War/nin with a Ridill.

[Eaglestrike]

I think you missed the part where these 'god weapons' would be as hard to get as Ridill. Meaning not every sam/drg/thf/drk will be able to outparse Ridill war's...

[sweet]

because ToA is so much of the game right now? because Cerberus and Hydra is immune to melee damage? what the hell are you talking about?

Because people can now exp on things harder than deco weapons.
Ninja edit: Ule range is different, not harder. Still VT to low IT.

well equipped Ridill WAR/NINs is how you kill Kirin in 5 minutes

Insanely equipped warriors and monks with excellent support and several Soul Voices over the course of the fight is how you kill Kirin in 9 minutes... once every 2 hours.

and how you clear the crap out of Dynamis and Limbus.

My group tends to do this quite frequently with, at most, 1 Ridill. Sometimes *GASP* not even that.

the point in giving Ridill-like options for other melee jobs is so people would get the hell off the WAR/NIN bandwagon.

Then they'll just go bandwagon something else that looks like it can be popular without benefit of playing smart. "Lesser" jobs can do just fine in exp, the last time I parsed a merit party I got outparsed by a loldrg. Making everyone superhumans that can trio KB isn't the solution.

what is so jackass-ish about DRKs, SAMs, DRGs and THFs putting up Ridill WAR/NIN like damage with equally rare items?

Nothing, but you're not talking about that.

In order to make a Sword in general and a Ridill in specific work I have to sacrifice alot in the way of gear choices, food options and merit selections. I'm also tied to one, maybe two, subjob choices. That really limits what I can do in terms of overall alliance usefulness. It makes me really effective at ONE thing. Spamming Rampage. I can't trick hate, I can't chain with versitility. If you allow other DDs to have the same benefit of Ridill in their main weapons it's way too powerful. A drk with a scythe that can double attack 50+ percent of the time and still be /thf?

Besides, for each job you listed I can think of a comparable trait/weapon/job combo for merit exp

Dark: /war with any Scythe. Ever since Absorb-TP The dark in my limbus shell keeps pace with me on war/nin or sam in terms of both tp and overall dmg.

Sam: /rng with Soboro.

Drg: Love halberd?

Thf: Mandau.

Yeah, the last 2 suck massive ass to get, but so does a Ridill.

It's an awesome sword, but it's not nearly as awesome as people who dont' have one think it is.

[DeadLegend]

It'll never make sense to me how they programmed the game so that a 5 hit ws with a single hand weapon(ramp) will almost always outdamage a 5 hit ws with a 2 handed weapon(penta), both of which are learned around the same level.

[FFXIFlux]

Adding other ridill-like weapons are a good idea, just so long as none of them are better than ridill or allows another job to outparse a well-equipped WAR with a ridill. If that spear lets a DRG outparse a WAR, or if a multi-attacking Futsuno Mitama allows a SAM to outparse a WAR, then no thanks. But bringing them almost up to the level of a ridill WAR isn't a bad idea, and will help kill things faster.

Why should a WAR be the end all best dmg melee class?

It shouldn't. Monk should be, that's how that class was in FF1 (though only from what I've read, never finished it lawl). Monk is a pure DD job.

WAR is as much or more of a pure DD job than MNK. MNK can heal themselves, remove status ailments on themselves, and chi blast, wars can.... use lots of different weapons. WARs are no more tanks than MNK, maybe less. MNK have higher base evasion, evasion ability, more HP, blocking, blocking trait, AND subbing WAR can take defender, which is really the only "tanking" thing wars get!

[Senoska]

Adding other ridill-like weapons are a good idea, just so long as none of them are better than ridill or allows another job to outparse a well-equipped WAR with a ridill. If that spear lets a DRG outparse a WAR, or if a multi-attacking Futsuno Mitama allows a SAM to outparse a WAR, then no thanks. But bringing them almost up to the level of a ridill WAR isn't a bad idea, and will help kill things faster.

Why should a WAR be the end all best dmg melee class?

A war without a ridill isnt the best, Its an okay DD, it [in most cases] can keep up with a relitivly decently geared MNK, Once they get the ridill [you know, the item that they (and LS members) camped for 2 years] they become the end all be all DD. Why? Because 2 years of waiting for one item damn well better be the end all be all. Even relics, you wait for 2 years u will do more damage, look at wafik.

[Sho]

Adding other ridill-like weapons are a good idea, just so long as none of them are better than ridill or allows another job to outparse a well-equipped WAR with a ridill. If that spear lets a DRG outparse a WAR, or if a multi-attacking Futsuno Mitama allows a SAM to outparse a WAR, then no thanks. But bringing them almost up to the level of a ridill WAR isn't a bad idea, and will help kill things faster.

Why should a WAR be the end all best dmg melee class?

It shouldn't. Monk should be, that's how that class was in FF1 (though only from what I've read, never finished it lawl). Monk is a pure DD job.

WAR is as much or more of a pure DD job than MNK. MNK can heal themselves, remove status ailments on themselves, and chi blast, wars can.... use lots of different weapons. WARs are no more tanks than MNK, maybe less. MNK have higher base evasion, evasion ability, more HP, blocking, blocking trait, AND subbing WAR can take defender, which is really the only "tanking" thing wars get!

WAR/MNK for the best of both worlds? D: Anyways, MNKs with BB, capped Hand-to-Hand, and Meat, pretty much murder WAR/NIN with Ridill I've seen, with correct Acc -> STR setups.

[epigram]

You guys do realize that War/nin with Ridill/Joy or Man/Ridill isn't the best damage output job for Merit parties right?

It's been known for a LONG time that Bst/nin with Man/Temp using LifeDrinkerLars outparses Wars with Ridill by something like 20% (assuming the rest of the gear is simliar). The problem with this for beastmasters is that they're spending 800k an hour on jug pets & have to farm for rare/ex ammo to feed the temperance axe.

If they give beastmasters 5 levels of bst affinity so they can use Fungars like CourierCarries, that goes a LONG way to making another DD that's equivalent to a War/nin with a Ridill.

Ok, I'm a huge fan of bst, but 20% is beyond absurd. Your not going to get 20% above another player if your both doing the same job, damage. Relic + temp + good gear + level 75 DD pet (LL, DC-EM charmed, or Funguar (if level 5 affinity becomes available)) will most likely do about the same damage as a ridill war.

[inafume]

All of a sudden letting DRGs, SAMs, DRKs, THFs, etc. outparse WARs (minus the souleater+kraken routine) when before they didn't would just piss a lot of people off, and you'd be putting a ridill WAR in the old DRG position.

Seriously, how many people do you know that have WAR and no other job available to use? I'm willing to bet a lot of your pissed off ridill WARs were something else before they were WAR. And really, if other jobs get a buff, what does it matter? The nonbuffed jobs still would do the same damage as before...

[Eaglestrike]

You guys do realize that War/nin with Ridill/Joy or Man/Ridill isn't the best damage output job for Merit parties right?

It's been known for a LONG time that Bst/nin with Man/Temp using LifeDrinkerLars outparses Wars with Ridill by something like 20% (assuming the rest of the gear is simliar). The problem with this for beastmasters is that they're spending 800k an hour on jug pets & have to farm for rare/ex ammo to feed the temperance axe.

If they give beastmasters 5 levels of bst affinity so they can use Fungars like CourierCarries, that goes a LONG way to making another DD that's equivalent to a War/nin with a Ridill.

Ok, I'm a huge fan of bst, but 20% is beyond absurd. Your not going to get 20% above another player if your both doing the same job, damage. Relic + temp + good gear + level 75 DD pet (LL, DC-EM charmed, or Funguar (if level 5 affinity becomes available)) will most likely do about the same damage as a ridill war.

If by 20% he means the WAR does 25% and the BST does 30%, that's definately possible. I've parsed *double* another thiefs damage before (it was like 19% for that thf, 39% for me...shitty pt -.-)

[Correction]

ok here's the question: Why should ridill be the end of all weapons? Why can't we hope for better weapons from harder fights that pop less frequently and require more skill to defeat?

To say that things can should get no better than Ridill means you're satisfied with FFXI endgame. Whatever floats your boat but online games should IMPROVE, or DIE.

Right now the 'ridill wars deserve their top position' bullshit is boiling down to: I don't want the in-game itemization to improve, ever and I love camping Fafnir nonstop and awarding Ridills to every person who ever leveled WAR on the server.

[LinktheDeme]

Justice sword! blus should be able to use that ;o

[epigram]

Man + Temp + LL easily out damages axe-axe wars with full DA merits, but not by that much. I just can't see how a man + temp bst can out damage a correctly merited ridill war.

Even keftenk would easily be out damaged by a ridill war by his parses.

[aurik]

Adding other ridill-like weapons are a good idea, just so long as none of them are better than ridill or allows another job to outparse a well-equipped WAR with a ridill. If that spear lets a DRG outparse a WAR, or if a multi-attacking Futsuno Mitama allows a SAM to outparse a WAR, then no thanks. But bringing them almost up to the level of a ridill WAR isn't a bad idea, and will help kill things faster.

Why should a WAR be the end all best dmg melee class?

It shouldn't. Monk should be, that's how that class was in FF1 (though only from what I've read, never finished it lawl). Monk is a pure DD job.

WAR is as much or more of a pure DD job than MNK. MNK can heal themselves, remove status ailments on themselves, and chi blast, wars can.... use lots of different weapons. WARs are no more tanks than MNK, maybe less. MNK have higher base evasion, evasion ability, more HP, blocking, blocking trait, AND subbing WAR can take defender, which is really the only "tanking" thing wars get!

WAR/MNK for the best of both worlds? D: Anyways, MNKs with BB, capped Hand-to-Hand, and Meat, pretty much murder WAR/NIN with Ridill I've seen, with correct Acc -> STR setups.

It's not true, war/nin + ridill properly built is about as strong as a mnk/nin + destroyers properly built. mnk/war is insane but hard to convince people to let us sub war, and yes spharai are stronger than destroyers, especially subbing war to let the +10 counter chance kick in.