Holy fucking shit. Job Adjustments: Samurai (09/29/06)

[Kael]

There are 2 caveats: The AoE simply wipes Third Eye and hits you anyway.

Actually it leaves Third Eye up. Third Eye only disappears if it wears off. Or if it blocks.

[Judai]

Ok so I understand.

Third eye= 1 abs hit
Shadows = 3

So /nin is still far superior for war tanking.

I really interested in how much faster we can swing 2h weapons now. I hope it's not something gay like 2%.

The great thing you are missing about Third Eye is it's ability to absorb Multiple hit moves. Such as something like Rushing Drab being completely absorbed by it. With the ability to lower the timer to as low as 20s or w/e, you can basically dodge all WS moves by mobs. It will be a pain to spam Third Eye to tank tho.

Still not seeing this as a new tank job or anything, just gives them ALOT more survivability. Maybe something like PLD/SAM might be better then PLD/NIN. Might be able to hold more hate too, since you wouldn't lose any enmity from using Utsusemi. The big thing will be, how much of a Slow+ will the new /jas add to magic and flash.

Think people freaking out a bit much but who knows, looks good so far tho.

[Lithiani]

How is the enmity growth on current samurai JAs?

I frequently pull hate when I hit Meditate shortly after a big WS (if I didn't pull hate with the WS). It's not as likely to turn the mob as a full Warcry is tho.

Third Eye... well, it's hard to tell, because mostly when I use it currently, I either already have hate or I'm about to drop a 1k SAWS onto something.

Warding Circle is just another Killer Circle effect.

[Machazareel]

Most of the AoE effects I have to deal with on NIN completely wipe shadows, anyway, so that really isn't too great an issue. The only real issues would be maintaining hate while also being able to maintain your defensive wall.

edit:

Are we really talking about Sams tanking here? Rolling Eyes Are you seriously suggesting throwing a Sam at something, on the 'chance' that their eye wont be down after 1-2-3-4 attacks while you wait for cooldown? Not that a sam/nin could keep hate worth a damn, but the increased recast timers with this active makes its explictly clear this will not make sam a tank on anything. This is the equivilant of suggesting whm/nin because they can cast Blink inbetween shadows. Hope you dont get hit!

The offensive update is by far the better of the two, so lets quit the nonsense and talk about what this update is really about: making 2h weapons viable. The defensive will just give a little more survivability if you pull hate, thats all.

Hi. Welcome to ffxi, the game where a Dark Knight has 100-0 tanked Tiamat. Nothing wrong with speculation on upcoming goodies. And if you do something crazy like use that brain of yours, the increase to recast timers would have to be *very* substantial for it to be impossible to sustain Third Eye > Ni > Third Eye > *maybe ichi depending on interrupt* > Third eye > Ni.
The only issue in that scenario is hate generation, and with enmity gear it really isn't that hard for ws spam to get hate. The only questions are really about the particulars of how the new third eye will work, and if the ws spam and JA burning is sufficient to hold hate or not.

[Trainwreck]

I just hope the new /ja's are more potent as Sam main :<

[Kael]

Are we really talking about Sams tanking here? Are you seriously suggesting throwing a Sam at something, on the 'chance' that their eye wont be down after 1-2-3-4 attacks while you wait for cooldown? Not that a sam/nin could keep hate worth a damn, but the increased recast timers with this active makes its explictly clear this will not make sam a tank on anything. This is the equivilant of suggesting whm/nin because they can cast Blink inbetween shadows. Hope you dont get hit!

The offensive update is by far the better of the two, so lets quit the nonsense and talk about what this update is really about: making 2h weapons viable. The defensive will just give a little more survivability if you pull hate, thats all.

Well with the increased attack speed and all the ws that will be going off. SAM will be tanking at some point. Wether they like it or not.

[Hyjynx]

You guys have very very short memories......


Last update the notes made everyone go ZOMG LAWL HAWT... then the day of the update made everyone question why they even bother to play the game.


Personally, I dont feel like this will be any different.

I'll just wait and see.

Its really hard for me not to be excited about overwhelm though, this has serious potential.

[layoneil]

You remember this 'shitty' piece of AF2 for Samurai...Shitty because Sam's never have hate to begin with ??

That enhancement to Third Eye causes it to counter. Think about that for a second.

that AF2 used to be 100%, if you had it on, it countered everything. i think after the Zanshin patch they made it so it wasn't 100%.

Are we really talking about Sams tanking here? Are you seriously suggesting throwing a Sam at something, on the 'chance' that their eye wont be down after 1-2-3-4 attacks while you wait for cooldown? Not that a sam/nin could keep hate worth a damn, but the increased recast timers with this active makes its explictly clear this will not make sam a tank on anything. This is the equivilant of suggesting whm/nin because they can cast Blink inbetween shadows. Hope you dont get hit!

for merits it should be fine. SAM/WAR with Berserk and DA and these 2 new JAs if they work properly should let them parse pretty well while at the same time not being an MP sponge.

these JAs are definitely built-in to have SAM/NIN and NIN/SAM not work too well.

[HAcoreRD]

You guys have very very short memories......


Last update the notes made everyone go ZOMG LAWL HAWT... then the day of the update made everyone question why they even bother to play the game.


Personally, I dont feel like this will be any different.

I'll just wait and see.

Its really hard for me not to be excited about overwhelm though, this has serious potential.

wasnt last Update the Chocobo? Then yes, you're right. If people quit over the Chocobo raising, then good, less people at King camps.

[FFXIFlux]

Meditate has a shitload of hate >.> Not quite as much as something like Souleater but at least as much as Provoke.

Yeah, uh, not even close unless you're also counting the agro from hitting the mob with all that TP.

wasnt last Update the Chocobo? Then yes, you're right. If people quit over the Chocobo raising, then good, less people at King camps.

People wouldn't (not many anyway) quit over what chocobo raising was, but what it wasn't, it wasn't a reason to spend a few hours a week with linkshell mates overcoming some challenging and interesting situations and being rewarded for success. You know, one of the primary formulas that makes MMORPGs successful.

[Lithiani]

There are 2 caveats: The AoE simply wipes Third Eye and hits you anyway.

Actually it leaves Third Eye up. Third Eye only disappears if it wears off. Or if it blocks.

That's false. or at least, it's false as far as Physical AoEs goes, for certain. Deco weapon Whirl of Rage, or Vanguard Yags Sweep always results in the Third Eye effect wearing off instantly and the attack hitting me anyway (unless I evade it).

I don't recall what it does vs. magic AoEs.

[Ryko]

(except DRG, which they update every 6 months or so)

With super jump recast being lowered to 3 minutes (fully merited 2:30), if that crap on the jp bbs about group 2 merits going up to 5 next update holds any truth whatsoever, a DRG is gonna be that much more beneficial in melee-"heavy" setups. 2 SAMs with "fully merited" shikikoyo and a DRG with a fully merited super jump could take out ridiculously large chunks in mobs without any risk crap like flailing it at all, all the while giving the DRG the TP they need to set up a darkness chain (with freeze 2 being potentially stronger than burst 2 now) twice every 5 minutes.

[Celeras]

Are we really talking about Sams tanking here? Are you seriously suggesting throwing a Sam at something, on the 'chance' that their eye wont be down after 1-2-3-4 attacks while you wait for cooldown? Not that a sam/nin could keep hate worth a damn, but the increased recast timers with this active makes its explictly clear this will not make sam a tank on anything. This is the equivilant of suggesting whm/nin because they can cast Blink inbetween shadows. Hope you dont get hit!

for merits it should be fine. SAM/WAR with Berserk and DA and these 2 new JAs if they work properly should let them parse pretty well while at the same time not being an MP sponge.

I agree, it gives them defensive capability if they pull hate. In merits, the mob dies in what 20 seconds? Sure third eye could last that long, just like counterstance could give 3-4 counters in a row and let a mnk/war not take any damage.

Thats exactly what its designed for, survivability in the short term. Everyone else in this thread are talking about spamming WS, and pulling hate with meditate like they expect to go take sam to the tank party in hnm.

[layoneil]

wasnt last Update the Chocobo? Then yes, you're right. If people quit over the Chocobo raising, then good, less people at King camps.

that doesn't count as a real update, that was a delayed portion of the July update.

and the July update was very underwhelming because a lot of the 2nd category merits sounded a lot better than they actually were. the key to the disappointment was the update notes didn't tell you the recast time of most of the "omg JAs".

the difference between that update and this one is, this one is a lot more descriptive because this one is also a lot more specific. it's still subject to a huge let down but the odds are lower.

parts of the July update that was good, increased Dagger damage, Absorb-TP and Raptor Mazurka are all stuff that doesn't have to be merited (which is another reason to be optimistic here).

[chiz]

Are we really talking about Sams tanking here?

Why not? Without knowing what kind of proc rate on the Counter/Evade with Seigan as well as how much Third Eye recast merits effect Seigan Third Eye (from 30s), its hard to say how much damage a SAM could avoid.

As for keeping hate and tanking, wasn't SAM one of the jobs SE envisioned as being a tank job? Their relic and even AF1 seem to indicate as much, as well as their high HPs, VIT, and A+ Parrying Skill. They probably intended SAM to hold hate through WS and Meditate (it used to be on a 60s timer iirc) but realized how overpowered such a low timer was as both main and /sub.

As for keeping hate, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch although /WAR would probably provide a better guarantee than /NIN. TP/tank in Arhat's/damage/def/HP/enmity gear and macro in shura/haub+1/jse for WS along with some well-timed /ja like Berserk or Warcry. Throw in the 5-15% bonus from Overwhelm on WS and keeping hate shouldn't be an issue.

[NynJa]

You remember this 'shitty' piece of AF2 for Samurai...Shitty because Sam's never have hate to begin with ??

That enhancement to Third Eye causes it to counter. Think about that for a second.

that AF2 used to be 100%, if you had it on, it countered everything. i think after the Zanshin patch they made it so it wasn't 100%.

Gross, you serious ??

Disregard that then, I had never heard about that change.

[Dbill]

Do you think SE is kinda bringing out the Job changes a little at a time so over the course of a year, you pretty much can use any job combos for even more fun.

[Sho]

So, will lolhydra be killed more now? Cuz you know, SAMs will want Physical Damage Taken -% now after this update. >_>

[Kael]

There are 2 caveats: The AoE simply wipes Third Eye and hits you anyway.

Actually it leaves Third Eye up. Third Eye only disappears if it wears off. Or if it blocks.

That's false. or at least, it's false as far as Physical AoEs goes, for certain. Deco weapon Whirl of Rage, or Vanguard Yags Sweep always results in the Third Eye effect wearing off instantly and the attack hitting me anyway (unless I evade it).

I don't recall what it does vs. magic AoEs.

Well I know the magic ones it just ignores. It stays I guess until you take a physical attack.

So we were both kinda wrong. lol

[Lithiani]

Are we really talking about Sams tanking here? Are you seriously suggesting throwing a Sam at something, on the 'chance' that their eye wont be down after 1-2-3-4 attacks while you wait for cooldown? Not that a sam/nin could keep hate worth a damn, but the increased recast timers with this active makes its explictly clear this will not make sam a tank on anything. This is the equivilant of suggesting whm/nin because they can cast Blink inbetween shadows. Hope you dont get hit!

The offensive update is by far the better of the two, so lets quit the nonsense and talk about what this update is really about: making 2h weapons viable. The defensive will just give a little more survivability if you pull hate, thats all.

I sure as shit plan on trying it, and I'm also sure someone here is insane enough to try doing it to a HNM (something that attacks slow and steady would be best, no AoE physicals).

However, as I said earlier in the thread, it's not exactly like anyone solo tanks XP anyway nowadays, but this gives some survivability to SAM and /SAM, while boosting the power of 2 handed weapons. So I no longer have to gimp myself /NIN to avoid being an MP sponge.