Job Adjustments: Summoner (03/10/2006)

[Aodh]

I thought that Crimson Howl = Warcry? If you have a WAR in the PT do they stack, or cancel?

Also, aside from Spring Water I can't think of any other Leviathan Defensive BPs.

Slowga would be counted as a Ward because it's enfeebling, Shiva would have two wards then not one, Sleepga and Frost Armor.

[Jeryhn]

I thought that Crimson Howl = Warcry? If you have a WAR in the PT do they stack, or cancel?

Its definitely Warcry. I know they don't stack, rather one overwrites the other (not sure which).

Also, aside from Spring Water I can't think of any other Leviathan Defensive BPs.

SE mentioned that enfeebling Bloodpacts would be Wards.
Leviathan has Slowga.

[Jeryhn]

I thought that Crimson Howl = Warcry? If you have a WAR in the PT do they stack, or cancel?

Also, aside from Spring Water I can't think of any other Leviathan Defensive BPs.

Slowga would be counted as a Ward because it's enfeebling, Shiva would have two wards then not one, Sleepga and Frost Armor.

I just noticed that typo. Fixed.

[Eltia]

I wonder if this patch will increase the duration of Nightmare. If so, Nightmare > Nether Blast > Melee cycle maybe a good idea.

EDIT: Probably not, seems unlikely SE will group Nightmare and Nether Blast in separate category.

[Scythiroth]

Nightmare seems like a Ward though, it is an enfeeble.

[Aodh]

Its definitely Warcry. I know they don't stack, rather one overwrites the other (not sure which).

I'll try tonight when I get home. It would be interesting if this could be increased to over 1min, would be an interesting value to melee parties to have a permanant Warcry on.

[Lithiani]

Its definitely Warcry. I know they don't stack, rather one overwrites the other (not sure which).

I'll try tonight when I get home. It would be interesting if this could be increased to over 1min, would be an interesting value to melee parties to have a permanant Warcry on.

Damn skippy it'd be nice.

And I believe that the most potent (i.e. highest attack) Warcry effect is the one that take priority. If a THF uses Aura Steal from Vanguard mobs or the Dolls in sky, if a subsequent Warcry goes off, they will show a "no effect" message (Mob Warcry is 2 to 3 times more potent than the WAR /ja)

[Jeryhn]

I wonder if this patch will increase the duration of Nightmare. If so, Nightmare > Nether Blast > Melee cycle maybe a good idea.

EDIT: Probably not, seems unlikely SE will group Nightmare and Nether Blast in separate category.

If Nightmare is a Ward, then Nether Blast will likely be a Rage, so yes, this would still work.

[Ksandra]

Dunno if this was mentioned (sorry if it was), but doesn't this also give the possibility to sc/mb yourself?

I know you can sc with your avatar's bp (haven't played with it too much so don't have specifics). But splitting this up means you could sc with an attack bp then mb off it with a spell bp. Might be nice when soloing Oo

[Aodh]

And I believe that the most potent (i.e. highest attack) Warcry effect is the one that take priority. If a THF uses Aura Steal from Vanguard mobs or the Dolls in sky, if a subsequent Warcry goes off, they will show a "no effect" message (Mob Warcry is 2 to 3 times more potent than the WAR /ja)

When you steal an effect on THF or Trunk it on BLU (they need to make that an instant cast -.-) you're actually stealing the already calculated effect. i.e. If you have 400 ATK and Warcry adds 15%, then if you receive the effect you would get 460 ATK. Now the mob has 800 ATK, and uses Warcry, it would receive an 120 bonus bringing it's attack to 920 ATK. If you Steal/Trunk, you're taking the +120 ATK effect, not a fresh calculated one, so you'd end up with 520 ATK.

[Jeryhn]

Dunno if this was mentioned (sorry if it was), but doesn't this also give the possibility to sc/mb yourself?

I know you can sc with your avatar's bp (haven't played with it too much so don't have specifics). But splitting this up means you could sc with an attack bp then mb off it with a spell bp. Might be nice when soloing Oo

You would have to MB with an enfeebling Bloodpact (Slowga or Sleepga). Any magical Bloodpacts that do damage would require that your Rage timer be reset.

[Aodh]

Dunno if this was mentioned (sorry if it was), but doesn't this also give the possibility to sc/mb yourself?

I know you can sc with your avatar's bp (haven't played with it too much so don't have specifics). But splitting this up means you could sc with an attack bp then mb off it with a spell bp. Might be nice when soloing Oo

Physical and Magical Attacks are both on the same timer. You could MB Slowga or Sleepga I guess.

[Ksandra]

Dunno if this was mentioned (sorry if it was), but doesn't this also give the possibility to sc/mb yourself?

I know you can sc with your avatar's bp (haven't played with it too much so don't have specifics). But splitting this up means you could sc with an attack bp then mb off it with a spell bp. Might be nice when soloing Oo

You would have to MB with an enfeebling Bloodpact (Slowga or Sleepga). Any magical Bloodpacts that do damage would require that your Rage timer be reset.

hmm your right I read the split wrong I fail XD

[Eltia]

What is the most efficient way for avatars to get TP? I heard multiple hit BPs (like Shiva's Rush) is a good idea. I could imagine a general form of BPs chain after the patch like this:

Summon > Ward BP > Rage BP (store TP) > Melee (store TP) > Ward BP > ... > (TP 300%) Merit BP > ... (repeat) > (MP is low) Release > Rest (repeat)

e.g.
Summon Shiva > Engage > Frost Armor > Rush > Frost Armor > ... > (TP 300%) Heavenly Strike > Release > Rest.

Summon Ramuh > Engage > Lightning Armor > Chaotic Strike > Rolling Thunder > ... > (TP 300%) Thunderstorm > Release > Rest.

Summon Garuda > Engage > Hastega > Predator Claw > Aerial Armor/Whispering Wind > ... > (TP 300%) Wind Blade > Release > Rest.

Just a thought.

EDIT 1: Changed Slowga to Frost Armor.
EDIT 2: Added more examples.

[Jeryhn]

And I believe that the most potent (i.e. highest attack) Warcry effect is the one that take priority. If a THF uses Aura Steal from Vanguard mobs or the Dolls in sky, if a subsequent Warcry goes off, they will show a "no effect" message (Mob Warcry is 2 to 3 times more potent than the WAR /ja)

When you steal an effect on THF or Trunk it on BLU (they need to make that an instant cast -.-) you're actually stealing the already calculated effect. i.e. If you have 400 ATK and Warcry adds 15%, then if you receive the effect you would get 460 ATK. Now the mob has 800 ATK, and uses Warcry, it would receive an 120 bonus bringing it's attack to 920 ATK. If you Steal/Trunk, you're taking the +120 ATK effect, not a fresh calculated one, so you'd end up with 520 ATK.

The thing here is that you're assuming that WAR Warcry and mob Warcry are the same. They're not. The buff itself is the same, but the buff can have varying degrees of power based on how its executed.

Here's an example: Take a look at Slow. There is Slow1, Slow2, Hojo, and Spider Web (and probably others). These all have different potencies, and some will overwite others. Also, Haste will overwrite certain versions of these Slows, and not others (same with Refueling), when the Haste effect you're applying is greater than the Slow effect.

Also, see Protect/Shell spells.

[Lithiani]

And I believe that the most potent (i.e. highest attack) Warcry effect is the one that take priority. If a THF uses Aura Steal from Vanguard mobs or the Dolls in sky, if a subsequent Warcry goes off, they will show a "no effect" message (Mob Warcry is 2 to 3 times more potent than the WAR /ja)

When you steal an effect on THF or Trunk it on BLU (they need to make that an instant cast -.-) you're actually stealing the already calculated effect. i.e. If you have 400 ATK and Warcry adds 15%, then if you receive the effect you would get 460 ATK. Now the mob has 800 ATK, and uses Warcry, it would receive an 120 bonus bringing it's attack to 920 ATK. If you Steal/Trunk, you're taking the +120 ATK effect, not a fresh calculated one, so you'd end up with 520 ATK.

Ahhh, I didn't realise that, thanks for the information.

In that case, for Warcrys of the same potency, the new Warcry would overwrite, and hence you would get a new duration from the new effect, no?

[Faranim]

What is the most efficient way for avatars to get TP? I heard multiple hit BPs (like Shiva's Rush) is a good idea. I could imagine a general form of BPs chain after the patch like this:

Summon > Ward BP > Rage BP (store TP) > Melee (store TP) > Ward BP > ... > (TP 300%) Merit BP > ... (repeat) > (MP is low) Release > Rest (repeat)

e.g.
Summon Shiva > Frost Armor > Engage > Rush > Frost Armor > ... > (TP 300%) Heavenly Strike > Release > Rest

Just a thought.

EDIT: Changed Slowga to Frost Armor.

If SMN don't even bother to Store TP now, why would an extra way to /toss your MP away make it more viable?

Also I'm pretty sure the Merit BP still suck even with 300% Avatar TP.

[Jeryhn]

Also I'm pretty sure the Merit BP still suck even with 300% Avatar TP.

With 300% TP yeah, but so far that Ive noticed, the new Bloodpacts shine when magicbursted. 700+ damage to Fafnir on Light is no problem with no TP, and well worth the extra 18 MP spent.

[Eltia]

If SMN don't even bother to Store TP now, why would an extra way to /toss your MP away make it more viable?

Also I'm pretty sure the Merit BP still suck even with 300% Avatar TP.

Maybe summon skill could improve the merit BP after next patch?

It's just a thought. But it seems SE maybe hinting in a new way to use the merit BP other than a zomglolfirework thing? (Guessing here.)

[Lithiani]

Didn't SE say they were improving those anyway?