Job Adjustments: Summoner (03/10/2006)

[Eltia]

Vana'diel Bestiary.

[Aodh]

That site doesn't have Atk/Def/HP numbers. And it says Dhalmel Berserk is AoE and Whistle is self only... O.o

[Jeryhn]

Did some Crimson Howling.
Here's the numbers:

Staff is capped at 250 for SMN. Equals 286 attack with 57 base STR.

Using a neutral staff (no STR or attack bonus): 311 (+25 attack gain from 286)
Using Vulcan's Staff (+5 STR and +10 Attack): 325 (+26 attack gain from 299)
Barehanded (36 attack normally): 39

It's percentage-based. Seems to me that it's about +1% to Attack.
I.E. Crimson Howl is currently really shitty.

[Nirokun!]

anyone who understands melee can see that ifrit has insanely high attack, but low str (hpemde test), and poor/mediocre acc (HNM wise)

i dont think crimson howl will give a huge damage increase, but the +smn skill buff to the BP might prove interesting

ifrit has the 'capacity' to do a lot of damage (you can see on the hpemdes, he destroys them when their evasion/def drops to 0 [assumed value], and they take double damage when they open up), but he cant do comparable numbers on normal HNM because of their evasion/def arent 0. Increased attack from crimson howl wont change his str/acc to make him a consistent heavy-hitter (unless there is an invisible attack effect on overcoming def, but the +smn skill might prove to be terribly interesting :D /dream :3

This all assumes atk raises the cap on your damage, and str fills the gap the increased atk makes, and that its comparable in avatars.

if im wrong in my assumption, blame the fact that these conclusions come from a main whm-smn x)

[Khamsin]

Did some Crimson Howling.
Here's the numbers:

Staff is capped at 250 for SMN. Equals 286 attack with 57 base STR.

Using a neutral staff (no STR or attack bonus): 311 (+25 attack gain from 286)
Using Vulcan's Staff (+5 STR and +10 Attack): 325 (+26 attack gain from 299)
Barehanded (36 attack normally): 39

It's percentage-based. Seems to me that it's about +1% to Attack.
I.E. Crimson Howl is currently really shitty.

That's more than 1%...

[Jeryhn]

Did some Crimson Howling.
Here's the numbers:

Staff is capped at 250 for SMN. Equals 286 attack with 57 base STR.

Using a neutral staff (no STR or attack bonus): 311 (+25 attack gain from 286)
Using Vulcan's Staff (+5 STR and +10 Attack): 325 (+26 attack gain from 299)
Barehanded (36 attack normally): 39

It's percentage-based. Seems to me that it's about +1% to Attack.
I.E. Crimson Howl is currently really shitty.

That's more than 1%...

Err, I'm no math guy, so feel free to do it for me. Calculator said 1%. ^^;

[layoneil]

(25/286)*100 = 8.7%

[Khamsin]

Did some Crimson Howling.
Here's the numbers:

Staff is capped at 250 for SMN. Equals 286 attack with 57 base STR.

Using a neutral staff (no STR or attack bonus): 311 (+25 attack gain from 286)
Using Vulcan's Staff (+5 STR and +10 Attack): 325 (+26 attack gain from 299)
Barehanded (36 attack normally): 39

It's percentage-based. Seems to me that it's about +1% to Attack.
I.E. Crimson Howl is currently really shitty.

That's more than 1%...

Err, I'm no math guy, so feel free to do it for me. Calculator said 1%. ^^;

+1% would be having 100 attack and using Crimson Howl, then having 101 attack afterward.

Your tests show that Crimson Howl is at least 9 times more powerful than you claim it is. The bonus is around 9% in your examples.

[Eltia]

9% increase is decent. Now only if Ifrit has better accuracy.

[Jeryhn]

Did some Crimson Howling.
Here's the numbers:

Staff is capped at 250 for SMN. Equals 286 attack with 57 base STR.

Using a neutral staff (no STR or attack bonus): 311 (+25 attack gain from 286)
Using Vulcan's Staff (+5 STR and +10 Attack): 325 (+26 attack gain from 299)
Barehanded (36 attack normally): 39

It's percentage-based. Seems to me that it's about +1% to Attack.
I.E. Crimson Howl is currently really shitty.

That's more than 1%...

Err, I'm no math guy, so feel free to do it for me. Calculator said 1%. ^^;

+1% would be having 100 attack and using Crimson Howl, then having 101 attack afterward.

Your tests show that Crimson Howl is at least 9 times more powerful than you claim it is. The bonus is around 9% in your examples.

Just did a test with a DRK/WAR. I put Howl on him, and his Warcry could not overwrite it. We reversed it, and my Howl overwrote his Warcry on both of us. Howl's attack bonus was stronger than his WAR sub's Warcry.

He switched to his 75 WAR, and Howl overwrote Warcry, but Warcry could not overwrite Howl. Both added the same amount of attack.

EDIT: Fixed a testing mistake.

[Fryte]

I'm curious as to if it'll require a great deal of +smn skill to boost the BPs to the cap. If it's only a few points, evoker's ring and like af2 bracers would be enough. If it's a megaload of points, it could mean a complete reworking of gear for smns.

At the moment, -perp cost, -BP timer, and +avatar stats gear all have its moments. I think -BP timer gear's use will go way down as we don't -need- to do pacts that often anymore unless it's a timed fight of some sort. MP will be a limiting factor now and you'll want more efficient BPs, not more often. This is all assuming the difference made with +smn skill doesn't completely suck balls.

[Lithiani]

Did some Crimson Howling.
Here's the numbers:

Staff is capped at 250 for SMN. Equals 286 attack with 57 base STR.

Using a neutral staff (no STR or attack bonus): 311 (+25 attack gain from 286)
Using Vulcan's Staff (+5 STR and +10 Attack): 325 (+26 attack gain from 299)
Barehanded (36 attack normally): 39

It's percentage-based. Seems to me that it's about +1% to Attack.
I.E. Crimson Howl is currently really shitty.

That's more than 1%...

Err, I'm no math guy, so feel free to do it for me. Calculator said 1%. ^^;

+1% would be having 100 attack and using Crimson Howl, then having 101 attack afterward.

Your tests show that Crimson Howl is at least 9 times more powerful than you claim it is. The bonus is around 9% in your examples.

Just did a test with a DRK/WAR. I put Howl on him, and his Warcry could not overwrite it. We reversed it, and my Howl overwrote his Warcry on both of us. Howl's attack bonus was stronger than his WAR sub's Warcry.

He switched to his 75 WAR, and Howl overwrote Warcry, but Warcry could not overwrite Howl. Both added the same amount of attack.

EDIT: Fixed a testing mistake.

I'd be prepared to bet that the effect of Crimson Howl is +22/256ths of existing Attack (equivalent to 8.59%), given the way the game is known to figure in such fractions.

Can I ask, by how much is Crimson Howls attack bonus greater than /ja Warcry?

[Scythiroth]

He switched to his 75 WAR, and Howl overwrote Warcry, but Warcry could not overwrite Howl. Both added the same amount of attack.

[Jeryhn]

I'd be prepared to bet that the effect of Crimson Howl is +22/256ths of existing Attack (equivalent to 8.59%), given the way the game is known to figure in such fractions.

Can I ask, by how much is Crimson Howls attack bonus greater than /ja Warcry?

DRK/WAR attack w/ normal equipment: 466
With Crimson Howl: 507
With /WAR Warcry: 491

When we tested main job WAR Warcry vs. Howl, we both got the same attack increase.
424 -> 462.

Warcry was never able to overwrite Crimson Howl. However, Howl was always able to overwrite Warcry.

[Iresire]

I just skimmed through the thread after seeing some people adding up how much Summoning Skill they can potentially get. I don't think anyone mentioned this.

The instances in which players can increase their skill will also be changed in accordance with the adjustments to summoning magic skill.

To me, it seems they're going to reduce the Summoning Magic skill on some items.

Anyway, to me, this seems like a great change for summoners. It won't fix all the problems with blood pacts, but it is a major step in the right direction. All we can hope for at this point is that Summoning Magic skill is potent for increasing some of the otherwise not-so-useful bloodpacts.

[Jeryhn]

I just skimmed through the thread after seeing some people adding up how much Summoning Skill they can potentially get. I don't think anyone mentioned this.

The instances in which players can increase their skill will also be changed in accordance with the adjustments to summoning magic skill.

To me, it seems they're going to reduce the Summoning Magic skill on some items.

I think that sentence is referring to the fact that summoning skill will now be easier to raise.

[Lithiani]

I'd be prepared to bet that the effect of Crimson Howl is +22/256ths of existing Attack (equivalent to 8.59%), given the way the game is known to figure in such fractions.

Can I ask, by how much is Crimson Howls attack bonus greater than /ja Warcry?

DRK/WAR attack w/ normal equipment: 466
With Crimson Howl: 507
With /WAR Warcry: 491

When we tested main job WAR Warcry vs. Howl, we both got the same attack increase.
424 -> 462.

Warcry was never able to overwrite Crimson Howl. However, Howl was always able to overwrite Warcry.

Yeah, looks like Crimson Howl and main job Warcry are both 22/256 boost. Subjob Warcry is about 2/3rds the power.

No idea why Ifrits Warcry would always overwrite WAR main Warcry, possibly duration based?

[Jeryhn]

No idea why Ifrits Warcry would always overwrite WAR main Warcry, possibly duration based?

That was my thought too, but I didn't particulary want to test it.

[Lithiani]

If it's based on Max duration, rather than remaining duration, there would be nothing to test, anyway.

[Khamsin]

If it's based on Max duration, rather than remaining duration, there would be nothing to test, anyway.

Crimson Howl = 25 seconds
Warcry = 30 seconds
...with AF2 mask = 40 seconds

Apparently, Crimson Howl overwrites Warcry. Warcry duration already exceeds that of Crimson Howl, but perhaps exceeding it... more will allow it to overwrite?