Job Adjustments: Summoner (03/10/2006)

[neophytal]

with our smn mp pool, i think they just need to give us more clear minds. I mean, we are "masters of our mp pool" b/c we have a 1 tic refresh? wtf are paladins then?

HAHAHA so true. i was kinda mad they gave away our job trait that was unique to us to help lolpld.

*sigH*

they do need to buff us up again somehow with something else, even if it is more HMP or an additional mp/tick.

[Janice]

Giving them more refresh or more clear mind makes them that more likely to fill the role of main healer in a party.

They should have ditched perp cost entirely. Just let a garuda melee for free. Have it cost mp to summon it (more mp than it is now) and to use abilities, but let it be free to melee with which is what a lot of SMN I know wished it would have been in the first place.

As it stands right now, you aren't summoning a creature, you are basically summoning a spell.

[Krandor]

they do need to buff us up again somehow with something else, even if it is more HMP or an additional mp/tick.

Isn't this entire thread detailing boosts to the SMN job

[Janice]

What I mean is, people don't summon Diablos to have Diablos out, they bring him out to use his spell and tuck him away again. Heck, cut out the middle man and just give smn a bunch of spells that have no hate. Same thing.

Make it where you can have avatars out for free attacking or tanking and casting spells and abilities using the smn mp pool. Have the summons take on aspects of the subjob of the SMN and have the SMN unable to access his own subjob abilities while the summon is out. SMN would be more of a pet job than just a bunch of delayed spells that have zero hate.

As of right now, you have a tool that can do a few things and generates basically no hate in a party situation, who wouldn't want to be able to use it more often by gaining mp faster.

[Aodh]

I'd like to see something along the lines of avatar accessory (neck/waist/back/hand/finger/ranged) pieces that act like the Carby Mitts for each avatar. Would be nice to have a general perp down, but there aren't many pieces that have that stat.

Bottom line SMN should be able to get all the avatars out for free in all day/weather conditions.

[Senoska]

/partypooperON
SMN is exactly were it should be right now, I agree it can be buffed in the party situations [add more buffs maybe?] but this seems like its going to throw SMN over the edge and VASTLY over power it. They will be able to give the tanks stoneskin, turn around and bust out 1k damage in the same breath.

SMN has gotten more then ANY JOB in this game, they have gotten new summons new abilitys new gear new crap almost every single big update, this is nothing new. Adding stuff to an already over powered job, and ignoring the real problems.

I dislike this update.
/partypooperOFF

[Faranim]

/partypooperON
SMN is exactly were it should be right now, I agree it can be buffed in the party situations [add more buffs maybe?] but this seems like its going to throw SMN over the edge and VASTLY over power it. They will be able to give the tanks stoneskin, turn around and bust out 1k damage in the same breath.

SMN has gotten more then ANY JOB in this game, they have gotten new summons new abilitys new gear new crap almost every single big update, this is nothing new. Adding stuff to an already over powered job, and ignoring the real problems.

I dislike this update.
/partypooperOFF

SMN is far from overpowered. Do you have it at 75? The only thing SMN is "good" for is killing Tiamat, Jormungand, Vrtra, and Jailer of Temperance. And against these mobs I doubt the extra BP timer will do much of anything.

OK, so now a SMN can give the party a 200-damage Stoneskin, and "bust out" a 1k damage bloodpact, for the amazingly low cost of 300 MP, while a BLM can cast Burst II for more damage and less MP. Oh noes we are so broken.

The big problem with "fixing" SMN for parties is that it becomes overpowered for Solo. If Avatars were so easy to keep out forever, SMN could solo just about any mob in the game that won't kill your avatar in 3 hits.

[Elondir]

OK, so now a SMN can give the party a 200-damage Stoneskin, and "bust out" a 1k damage bloodpact, for the amazingly low cost of 300 MP, while a BLM can cast Burst II for more damage and less MP. Oh noes we are so broken.

Go BLM go, build hate to tank!

But seriously, I think SMNs are roughly where they should be, I wouldn't mind seeing the Astral Flow Final BPs changed a little so it isn't useless against things with adds around and anything that resists magic a bit.

[Jeryhn]

SMN has gotten more then ANY JOB in this game, they have gotten new summons new abilitys new gear new crap almost every single big update, this is nothing new. Adding stuff to an already over powered job, and ignoring the real problems.

That is probably because SMN was released with absolutely nothing to begin with. Hi there Carbuncle only before RoZ. Sup no Clear Mind on a mage job whose most heavily relied upon stat is MP. Oh shit, that's my homeboy, Astral Flow, which didn't reduce the costs of avatars and only lasted one minute, brb.

You're a fucking dumbass.

[Mifaco]

SMN has gotten more then ANY JOB in this game, they have gotten new summons new abilitys new gear new crap almost every single big update, this is nothing new. Adding stuff to an already over powered job, and ignoring the real problems.

That is probably because SMN was released with absolutely nothing to begin with. Hi there Carbuncle only before RoZ. Sup no Clear Mind on a mage job whose most heavily relied upon stat is MP. Oh shit, that's my homeboy, Astral Flow, which didn't reduce the costs of avatars and only lasted one minute, brb.

You're a fucking dumbass.

stfu and get back to cure3ing me

[Jeryhn]

SMN has gotten more then ANY JOB in this game, they have gotten new summons new abilitys new gear new crap almost every single big update, this is nothing new. Adding stuff to an already over powered job, and ignoring the real problems.

That is probably because SMN was released with absolutely nothing to begin with. Hi there Carbuncle only before RoZ. Sup no Clear Mind on a mage job whose most heavily relied upon stat is MP. Oh shit, that's my homeboy, Astral Flow, which didn't reduce the costs of avatars and only lasted one minute, brb.

You're a fucking dumbass.

stfu and get back to cure3ing me

Sorry, I only accept TP burn parties with a BRD/NIN and at least one Ridill/Adaberk WAR on my RDM. ^-')b

[Khamsin]

OK, so now a SMN can give the party a 200-damage Stoneskin, and "bust out" a 1k damage bloodpact, for the amazingly low cost of 300 MP, while a BLM can cast Burst II for more damage and less MP. Oh noes we are so broken.

Let's be fair now. Let's compare the same equivalent actions for both the BLM and the SMN. You're saying a BLM casting a single damage spell will spend less MP than a SMN both using a damage BP and buffing the party.

SMN
Titan = 7
Perpetuation for 3 ticks = 15
Earthen Ward (protects everyone from about 200 dmg) = 92
Garuda = 7
Perpetuation for 3 ticks = 15
Predator Claws = 164

Total MP spent = 300

BLM
Burst II = 287
Curaga II (heals everyone for about 200 hp) = 120

Total MP spent = 407

[Elondir]

OK, so now a SMN can give the party a 200-damage Stoneskin, and "bust out" a 1k damage bloodpact, for the amazingly low cost of 300 MP, while a BLM can cast Burst II for more damage and less MP. Oh noes we are so broken.

Let's be fair now. Let's compare the same equivalent actions for both the BLM and the SMN. You're saying a BLM casting a single damage spell will spend less MP than a SMN both using a damage BP and buffing the party.

SMN
Titan = 7
Perpetuation for 3 ticks = 15
Earthen Ward (protects everyone from about 200 dmg) = 92
Garuda = 7
Perpetuation for 3 ticks = 15
Predator Claws = 164

Total MP spent = 300

BLM
Burst II = 287
Curaga II (heals everyone for about 200 hp) = 120

Total MP spent = 407

Again, if the BLM has good gear and is slightly stupid and does this 3-4 SCs in a row he'll likely be eating mud, while the SMN carries on his routine.

You can SMN burn any mob, it might not be the most efficient but it will get the job done.

[Lithiani]

Not to mention that SMN can switch damage modes between physical and magical should the need arise, unlike Mr. Black Mage.

That's a huge benefit in certain circumstances.

[Khamsin]

Not to mention that SMN can switch damage modes between physical and magical should the need arise, unlike Mr. Black Mage.

That's a huge benefit in certain circumstances.

Well, this I wouldn't be too proud of... our magical BPs suck. lol

But perhaps they'll improve them like they promised in the TGS fanfest.

[Khamsin]

Nether Blast is consistant, it doesn't "suck"

and Grand Fall can be a thing of fucking beauty =D

No, Nether Blast is great, but as far as being a good source of magical damage... SMN aren't that. SMN do great one-shot melee damage, but our best magical attack only does 508 damage. Grand Fall might do 600-700 on xp mobs, more on a burst, but on HNMs we're a bit short.

Nether Blast is a really nice tool for our arsenal, but when you compare it to what a BLM will do, in terms of magic damage, they're almost always going to have you beat except on things that take the full 508 from Nether Blast, but are resisting BLM nukes. Melee, on the other hand, we can easily outdamage in terms of one-shot burst damage from physical BPs. So our physical damage is great compared to melee jobs, but our magical damage leaves a lot to be desired compared to BLMs.

And yes, before someone says it, on soft mobs like Kirin, a melee will outdamage SMN. But on mobs where melee don't engage, and just build TP to get swapped in and do WSs, a SMN will outdamage the melee.

[FFXIFlux]

SMN
Titan = 7
Perpetuation for 3 ticks = 15
Earthen Ward (protects everyone from about 200 dmg) = 92
Garuda = 7
Perpetuation for 3 ticks = 15
Predator Claws = 164

Total MP spent = 300

BLM
Burst II = 287
Curaga II (heals everyone for about 200 hp) = 120

Total MP spent = 407

Except... a) a BLM is going to use Thunder 4 and not Burst II generally unless it's ON a burst in which case it's doing WAY more than your Predator Claws. b) the BLM will then spend the next minute slamming more damage into the mob while the SMN is basically jacked doing nothing. c) BLM have conserve MP. d) wanna see how dumb your comparison really is, swap BLM for BLU, 55 MP Healing Breeze for Curaga II and 72 MP Dissevernment for Predator Claws and you're looking at 127, under half the SMN's 300 MP (before even counting Conserve MP which BLU also have).

[Khamsin]

SMN
Titan = 7
Perpetuation for 3 ticks = 15
Earthen Ward (protects everyone from about 200 dmg) = 92
Garuda = 7
Perpetuation for 3 ticks = 15
Predator Claws = 164

Total MP spent = 300

BLM
Burst II = 287
Curaga II (heals everyone for about 200 hp) = 120

Total MP spent = 407

Except... a) a BLM is going to use Thunder 4 and not Burst II generally unless it's ON a burst in which case it's doing WAY more than your Predator Claws. b) the BLM will then spend the next minute slamming more damage into the mob while the SMN is basically jacked doing nothing. c) BLM have conserve MP. d) wanna see how dumb your comparison really is, swap BLM for BLU, 55 MP Healing Breeze for Curaga II and 72 MP Dissevernment for Predator Claws and you're looking at 127, under half the SMN's 300 MP (before even counting Conserve MP which BLU also have).

I was refuting this:

OK, so now a SMN can give the party a 200-damage Stoneskin, and "bust out" a 1k damage bloodpact, for the amazingly low cost of 300 MP, while a BLM can cast Burst II for more damage and less MP. Oh noes we are so broken.

Not talking about SMN vs BLU, or casting Thunder IV.

[layoneil]

just because the original analogy was faulty doesn't mean there's no point.

a BLM will do more damage for less MP and if necessary can also do a similar amount of curing. the biggest difference is the hate and at the current point of the game, most good tanks won't have a problem losing hate to the BLMs any time they are doing more damage than a SMN can.

[Ryko]

Sorry, I only accept TP burn parties with a BRD/NIN

What kind of retarded gimptastic bards do you have that fail that hard at pulling?