Job Adjustments: Summoner (03/10/2006)

[Plow]

When I leveled WHM "back in the day" seeing a chain 5 in an XP party was not common. SMNs have come a ways since then but not by any stretch of the imagination as much as other jobs. A Predator Claws back then and one today is pretty similar. A WAR from my linkshell today and one from then... not even close... hell WAR wasn't even a DD job anyone took seriously or even bothered to level back then, and NA weren't allowed to have Ridills let alone e.bodies.

Take your favorite smn. Convince them to delevel to 74. Come back when you know jack shit about the smn job.

[Ryko]

I look at myself then double check it with alexor's gear 2 years and 4 months ago. What's changed: My axe, my hat, and my neckpiece for weapon skills <_<

[Kuropiko]

I just thought of something interesting you could do with the new BP changes most likely.

Shiva --> Rush to Retreat to Sleepga. Release. Run away to recast.

At least saving on perp cost, downside being you have to use lolRush. On a somewhat related note, anyone know how long Shiva's Sleepga lasts?


Could do the same I guess with Nightmare and Nether Blast, but...Nether Blast is such limited use outside of wyrms and insanely resistant thingies.

In my opinion, Sleepga and Nightmare would be in the Rage section with the damage Blood Pacts since they're aimed at enemies.

[Khamsin]

I just thought of something interesting you could do with the new BP changes most likely.

Shiva --> Rush to Retreat to Sleepga. Release. Run away to recast.

At least saving on perp cost, downside being you have to use lolRush. On a somewhat related note, anyone know how long Shiva's Sleepga lasts?


Could do the same I guess with Nightmare and Nether Blast, but...Nether Blast is such limited use outside of wyrms and insanely resistant thingies.

In my opinion, Sleepga and Nightmare would be in the Rage section with the damage Blood Pacts since they're aimed at enemies.

Wards cover enfeebling, which are aimed at enemies.

They split direct damage BPs from enfeebling/enhancing BPs. So if it doesn't do damage when it initially lands, its a Ward. Nightmare doesn't do damage when it lands, it just has a DoT effect. Therefore it should be a Ward.

[Jeryhn]

I just thought of something interesting you could do with the new BP changes most likely.

Shiva --> Rush to Retreat to Sleepga. Release. Run away to recast.

At least saving on perp cost, downside being you have to use lolRush. On a somewhat related note, anyone know how long Shiva's Sleepga lasts?


Could do the same I guess with Nightmare and Nether Blast, but...Nether Blast is such limited use outside of wyrms and insanely resistant thingies.

In my opinion, Sleepga and Nightmare would be in the Rage section with the damage Blood Pacts since they're aimed at enemies.

Your opinion would be wrong.

What Khamsin said.

[Toth]

Shiva's Sleepga and Diabolos' Nightmare get resisted alot though on anything over T. They aren't especially useful. Maybe this update can change that?

[Jeryhn]

We can hope. I would expect magical bloodpacts to get an accuracy increase with enough skill.

[BRP]

I think Nightmare has potential to be up in the air. Is there any balance of the types of BPs(enfeebling, damaging, support) for each avatar? Well anyway, I just felt like saying that.

[NynJa]

ppl use smn at cerb ?

Why not? Paralyze doesn't hurt them, and they can take out magma hoplon for the melees. Though they used to be on the wall, BPing from above (you could put cerberus close enough to the wall to Predator Claws from up top), but since the patch, they can still be on the ground with Cerberus, and out of range of Ululation.

and melee cant take out hoplon either ??
why not just invite a blm to ES burst 2, that takes out hoplon as well ??

[Kuropiko]

Wards cover enfeebling, which are aimed at enemies.

They split direct damage BPs from enfeebling/enhancing BPs. So if it doesn't do damage when it initially lands, its a Ward. Nightmare doesn't do damage when it lands, it just has a DoT effect. Therefore it should be a Ward.

Hmm yeah that's true, my bad, didn't see the part about enfeebling being covered by Wards. Well then it'd work if Sleepga lands, and sometimes it does, just not consistently enough unless the update really fixes its accuracy.

[Khamsin]

ppl use smn at cerb ?

Why not? Paralyze doesn't hurt them, and they can take out magma hoplon for the melees. Though they used to be on the wall, BPing from above (you could put cerberus close enough to the wall to Predator Claws from up top), but since the patch, they can still be on the ground with Cerberus, and out of range of Ululation.

and melee cant take out hoplon either ??
why not just invite a blm to ES burst 2, that takes out hoplon as well ??

That's silly to include ES Burst II, you can only do that once per 10 min, and Cerberus isn't a BLM heavy fight so you're not likely to have many BLMs there.

As for SMN taking out hoplon, we can't have epeen melee crying because they did a 0 damage Ground Strike, can we?

Cerberus is a melee-oriented fight, and SMN do physical damage. Both melee and SMN do fine on Cerberus. SMN just need less curing/paralynaing/etc.

[layoneil]

and melee cant take out hoplon either ??
why not just invite a blm to ES burst 2, that takes out hoplon as well ??

who said melee can't? your question was do people use SMN at Cerberus and they do. not "if you had someone in your LS that had SMN and a melee job leveled why would they go to Cerberus as SMN instead of the melee job?"

even still, if you're really short on people, a SMN can do damage while not taking as much as a melee in the same spot and they can also heal other people.

in an ideal situation with 20+ people and a SMN that has multiple 75 jobs you'd probably not have the SMN there, but free spawn HNMs don't always allow for ideal situations.

[NynJa]

As for SMN taking out hoplon, we can't have epeen melee crying because they did a 0 damage Ground Strike, can we

IIRC, my un-potency-merited BLM did ES t4 for something like 700 dmg...thats enough to seriously dent a hoplon. A fully merited ES Burst 2 can probably break 1k, which should take it out np I think.

And if your Melee's are too ignorant to understand that 1k WS absorbed by stoneskin is no different than a 1k WS not absorbed by stoneskin, you have problems that go deeper than hoplon. Anyways, smn cant glorify e-peen shots when Pred Claws does 0 dmg, can they ?



*edit* dont post stuff at 730 am -.-

[Aodh]

I just had a thought reading over the other posts. Given how 'ward-lacking' some avatars are, I wonder if as part of the update they'll add new Blood Pacts (Mainly Wards) to the avatars. If they've done what Jery did, they might realize that avatars like Ifrit get completely screwed since they only have 1-2 wards.

Just a thought...

[Senoska]

I just had a thought reading over the other posts. Given how 'ward-lacking' some avatars are, I wonder if as part of the update they'll add new Blood Pacts (Mainly Wards) to the avatars. If they've done what Jery did, they might realize that avatars like Ifrit get completely screwed since they only have 1-2 wards.

Just a thought...

Also LMFAO at the people[SMNs] STILL ASKING FOR MORE, HOLY SHIT WHY DONT WE JUST GIVE YOU DEATH THAT NEVER RESIST AND IS GARENTEED TO ONE SHOT THE MOB FOR FULL DROPS, SHIT WHILE WE ARE AT IT LETS MAKE IT SO U HAVE THE HIGHEST HP POOL IN THE GAME TOO!.

[Faranim]

Tiamat fight is already changing drastically with the discovery of NIN/DRK and NIN/BRD. Our last Tiamat we fought with BLMs going full-out non-stop nuking and didn't pull hate until Tiamat was at 9%. Our SAMs never logged out either.

Hell, The only reason I ever use SMN is usually "I haven't used it in a while." I can't think of a situation other than Tiamat where I actually go as SMN because it's the most useful.

Unless this update makes Hastega and Rolling Thunder last 3+ minutes, nothing about how I play SMN or where I use it will change.

[Aodh]

Also LMFAO at the people[SMNs] STILL ASKING FOR MORE, HOLY SHIT WHY DONT WE JUST GIVE YOU DEATH THAT NEVER RESIST AND IS GARENTEED TO ONE SHOT THE MOB FOR FULL DROPS, SHIT WHILE WE ARE AT IT LETS MAKE IT SO U HAVE THE HIGHEST HP POOL IN THE GAME TOO!.

Given how generally useless Wards are it's not really anywhere close to asking for death, that and I didn't ask for anything... I was thinking along the lines of en-fire or blaze spikes for Ifrit or something equally useless, but just other abilities to buff up the number of wards. Or they could be creative and come up with something good, but I'd doubt it. Just noting the inequities in the number of Wards/Rages on some avatars.

[FFXIFlux]

And if your Melee's are too ignorant to understand that 1k WS absorbed by stoneskin is no different than a 1k WS not absorbed by stoneskin, you have problems that go deeper than hoplon. Anyways, smn cant glorify e-peen shots when Pred Claws does 0 dmg, can they ?

It is slightly different... melee hitting a hoplon give the mob 0 TP. Cerberus using hoplon just makes an easy fight even easier. Not that it matters, melee blow through Hoplon in the time it would take for a SMN hit their bloodpact macro.

[NynJa]

And if your Melee's are too ignorant to understand that 1k WS absorbed by stoneskin is no different than a 1k WS not absorbed by stoneskin, you have problems that go deeper than hoplon. Anyways, smn cant glorify e-peen shots when Pred Claws does 0 dmg, can they ?

It is slightly different... melee hitting a hoplon give the mob 0 TP. Cerberus using hoplon just makes an easy fight even easier. Not that it matters, melee blow through Hoplon in the time it would take for a SMN hit their bloodpact macro.

well yeah, if you get the odd chance that it hoplons and no one has TP, then you can use this 0 dmg time to rest mp.

[Jeryhn]

If a melee giving Cerberus 0 TP during Hoplon is some kind of benefit, how is using Bloodpacts not a benefit fulltime against Cerberus?

Just trying to understand the argument.