Job Adjustments: Summoner (03/10/2006)

[Ryko]

Who cares, hoplon is 1 eaten weapon skill. I usually bite the bullet and drop it myself.

That whole nin/brd thing is absofuckinglutely crazy though.

[Khamsin]

And if your Melee's are too ignorant to understand that 1k WS absorbed by stoneskin is no different than a 1k WS not absorbed by stoneskin, you have problems that go deeper than hoplon. Anyways, smn cant glorify e-peen shots when Pred Claws does 0 dmg, can they ?

It is slightly different... melee hitting a hoplon give the mob 0 TP. Cerberus using hoplon just makes an easy fight even easier. Not that it matters, melee blow through Hoplon in the time it would take for a SMN hit their bloodpact macro.

They also aren't gaining TP. If no one has TP for a WS when hoplon goes up, they just gotta melee it down before they can gain TP again. In the end, it slows the fight down. I hate it when, near the end, he chooses to spam hoplon over and over. I'd rather he choose something else, so long as its not more GoH than we have stunners, in a row.

And.. why is ES T4 even a part of this, Nynja? It's ES. A SMN can BP once every 40ish seconds, a BLM is only doing ES T4 once every 8-10 min.

[NynJa]

And if your Melee's are too ignorant to understand that 1k WS absorbed by stoneskin is no different than a 1k WS not absorbed by stoneskin, you have problems that go deeper than hoplon. Anyways, smn cant glorify e-peen shots when Pred Claws does 0 dmg, can they ?

It is slightly different... melee hitting a hoplon give the mob 0 TP. Cerberus using hoplon just makes an easy fight even easier. Not that it matters, melee blow through Hoplon in the time it would take for a SMN hit their bloodpact macro.

They also aren't gaining TP. If no one has TP for a WS when hoplon goes up, they just gotta melee it down before they can gain TP again. In the end, it slows the fight down. I hate it when, near the end, he chooses to spam hoplon over and over. I'd rather he choose something else, so long as its not more GoH than we have stunners, in a row.

And.. why is ES T4 even a part of this, Nynja? It's ES. A SMN can BP once every 40ish seconds, a BLM is only doing ES T4 once every 8-10 min.

ES T4/B2 wont miss, Pred Claws can miss.

Why is it a benefit that you can whack away at Cerb without gaining TP ?? Cerb wont be gaining TP either, and thus you can take the time to rest up MP without having to worry about it spamming TP attacks.

[Jeryhn]

ES T4/B2 wont miss, Pred Claws can miss.

It can. How often will it with acceptable gear and merits?
Probably around the same rate that an ES spell would be resisted.

Why is it a benefit that you can whack away at Cerb without gaining TP ?? Cerb wont be gaining TP either, and thus you can take the time to rest up MP without having to worry about it spamming TP attacks.

Is Cerberus an intense enough fight for you that it drains your healers MP so quickly?

[NynJa]

ES T4/B2 wont miss, Pred Claws can miss.

It can. How often will it with acceptable gear and merits?
Probably around the same rate that an ES spell would be resisted.

Why is it a benefit that you can whack away at Cerb without gaining TP ?? Cerb wont be gaining TP either, and thus you can take the time to rest up MP without having to worry about it spamming TP attacks.

Is Cerberus an intense enough fight for you that it drains your healers MP so quickly?

Sorry, my LS doesnt have 3 bards all with Relic Horn and 2 Aegis plds

[Ryko]

<_< Dude, cerb is stupid easy to stall/tank for hours and to kill with 3 PLDs (no aegis) 1 brd, 1 rdm, and 1 WHM. Last kill yesterday was 1 WHM, I'd say a good quarter of our kills are severely lacking in the whitemagery or bard numbers.

[Jeryhn]

ES T4/B2 wont miss, Pred Claws can miss.

It can. How often will it with acceptable gear and merits?
Probably around the same rate that an ES spell would be resisted.

Why is it a benefit that you can whack away at Cerb without gaining TP ?? Cerb wont be gaining TP either, and thus you can take the time to rest up MP without having to worry about it spamming TP attacks.

Is Cerberus an intense enough fight for you that it drains your healers MP so quickly?

Sorry, my LS doesnt have 3 bards all with Relic Horn and 2 Aegis plds

Neither does mine. Your point?

[Khamsin]

ES T4/B2 wont miss, Pred Claws can miss.

Predator Claws can miss, but it sure as hell hits more often than once per 8-10 min.

[NynJa]

ES T4/B2 wont miss, Pred Claws can miss.

Predator Claws can miss, but it sure as hell hits more often than once per 8-10 min.

a drg is a better source of damage though...
the only merit Pred Claws has going for it is the fact that it doesnt need TP to deal damage, which is what Hoplon may cockblock on a melee. As I previously said, Pred Claws can miss, an ES spell can not miss.

[Jeryhn]

ES T4/B2 wont miss, Pred Claws can miss.

Predator Claws can miss, but it sure as hell hits more often than once per 8-10 min.

a drg is a better source of damage though...
the only merit Pred Claws has going for it is the fact that it doesnt need TP to deal damage, which is what Hoplon may cockblock on a melee. As I previously said, Pred Claws can miss, an ES spell can not miss.

A melee character could also make a nice toasty lump after Gates of Hades.
Stun can also "miss".

Its not fucking likely, but neither is a missed Predator Claws.

[safer]

this update looks good, and looks promising in adjusting some of the few problems with smn

main issue being underused buffs many of us were complaining about... why use hastega when its inferior to haste from a whm/rdm and lasts like 50s when you can use PC...

substitute crimson howl/ecliptic howl / etc in place of hastega and the same arguement holds

now this update gives us the opportunity to do both.. yet people are still bitching....


the only real other issue i have with smn is the mp cost of the new meritable BP's ... almost 200mp (iirc) for a BP that is easily resisted and inferior to PC.. with no bonus of choosing it over PC

if these bonus's from having over capped smn skill actually deal with issues such as buff durations/magic accuracy or potency/ physical accuracy or potency like they promise... then it'll be the answers pretty much all smns were looking for

[NynJa]

ES T4/B2 wont miss, Pred Claws can miss.

Predator Claws can miss, but it sure as hell hits more often than once per 8-10 min.

a drg is a better source of damage though...
the only merit Pred Claws has going for it is the fact that it doesnt need TP to deal damage, which is what Hoplon may cockblock on a melee. As I previously said, Pred Claws can miss, an ES spell can not miss.

A melee character could also make a nice toasty lump after Gates of Hades.
Stun can also "miss".

Its not fucking likely, but neither is a missed Predator Claws.

Stun can miss when its casted by a THF/DRK or any other job without an innate dark magic skill, Stun cant miss otherwise unless you fail to cast it on time.

[Jeryhn]

A melee character could also make a nice toasty lump after Gates of Hades.
Stun can also "miss".

Its not fucking likely, but neither is a missed Predator Claws.

Stun can miss when its casted by a THF/DRK or any other job without an innate dark magic skill, Stun cant miss otherwise unless you fail to cast it on time.

And Predator Claws on Cerberus likely won't miss unless the summoner using it is like level 70 and not wearing Evoker's Spats.

Dancing around the point isn't an argument.

[Khamsin]

ES T4/B2 wont miss, Pred Claws can miss.

Predator Claws can miss, but it sure as hell hits more often than once per 8-10 min.

a drg is a better source of damage though...
the only merit Pred Claws has going for it is the fact that it doesnt need TP to deal damage, which is what Hoplon may cockblock on a melee. As I previously said, Pred Claws can miss, an ES spell can not miss.

And as I previously said, Predator Claws can miss, but it sure as hell hits more often than once per 8-10 min.
loldrg

[NynJa]

ES T4/B2 wont miss, Pred Claws can miss.

Predator Claws can miss, but it sure as hell hits more often than once per 8-10 min.

a drg is a better source of damage though...
the only merit Pred Claws has going for it is the fact that it doesnt need TP to deal damage, which is what Hoplon may cockblock on a melee. As I previously said, Pred Claws can miss, an ES spell can not miss.

And as I previously said, Predator Claws can miss, but it sure as hell hits more often than once per 8-10 min.
loldrg

drg hits a hell of a lot more than once every 40 seconds lawl.

[Khamsin]

ES T4/B2 wont miss, Pred Claws can miss.

Predator Claws can miss, but it sure as hell hits more often than once per 8-10 min.

a drg is a better source of damage though...
the only merit Pred Claws has going for it is the fact that it doesnt need TP to deal damage, which is what Hoplon may cockblock on a melee. As I previously said, Pred Claws can miss, an ES spell can not miss.

And as I previously said, Predator Claws can miss, but it sure as hell hits more often than once per 8-10 min.
loldrg

drg hits a hell of a lot more than once every 40 seconds lawl.

And I'm sure they do more than a Predator Claws every hit, too.

[FFXIFlux]

A melee character could also make a nice toasty lump after Gates of Hades.

When your tanks who keep the SMN from being doggy treats aren't melee, that might matter. Regardless Cerberus = joke, SMN = low DPS and as has been said by many people in this thread, not going to be taken unless the person ONLY has SMN leveled.

[NynJa]

drg hits a hell of a lot more than once every 40 seconds lawl.

And I'm sure they do more than a Predator Claws every hit, too.[/quote]
I'd take angon and SA impulsive/wheeling over Pred Claws anyday.

A melee character could also make a nice toasty lump after Gates of Hades.

When your tanks who keep the SMN from being doggy treats aren't melee, that might matter. Regardless Cerberus = joke, SMN = low DPS and as has been said by many people in this thread, not going to be taken unless the person ONLY has SMN leveled and theres no other dd available.

fixed for futher clarification.

[Ryko]

Who the fuck cares, what a pointless fucking argument. Your question was "Do people use summoners on cerberus", it was answered "yes, people do". Whether it's predominately or in lieu of whatever it's not like when youre rushing to fight it or whatever situation you're in and a SMN in your LS asks to join you're gonna be like "no go fuck yourself". Take the damage, take the healing, take the paralynas, take the stoneskin, take the erases, whatever.

[NynJa]

im gonna go check out that nsfw thread in general now since im home.