Square Enix and us people.

[spooky]

Something I'd like to see them address is avatar pathing. When I move 3 steps north, my avatar shouldn't move 7 steps east, 3 steps north, and 7 steps west to catch up.

Don't hold your breath on this one <_< It's actually a difficult problem.

How so? (Yes, I want a free programming lesson. :D)

hi internet: http://www.policyalmanac.org/games/aStarTutorial.htm

[Khamsin]

Something I'd like to see them address is avatar pathing. When I move 3 steps north, my avatar shouldn't move 7 steps east, 3 steps north, and 7 steps west to catch up.

Don't hold your breath on this one <_< It's actually a difficult problem.

How so? (Yes, I want a free programming lesson. :D)

I've noticed avatars seem very sensitive to the geometrical shape of the terrain. For example, they always summon in the direction of the steepest grade. Sometimes, I notice them following the terrain in such a way that they go up hills, even short imperceptible ones, in the direction of steepest grade rather than go up "diagonally". However, if they're an inch off that hill, they'll follow the foot of it until following the steepest grade (at their exact point) leads them in the direction of the hill.

It's almost as if they are programmed to follow the gradient, in your direction of x,y,z, until it reaches you.

[LD]

AHH, YA BEAT MEH. :o

[Shuvo]

Something I'd like to see them address is avatar pathing. When I move 3 steps north, my avatar shouldn't move 7 steps east, 3 steps north, and 7 steps west to catch up.

Also, I don't see how it can possibly be even remotely difficult to associate character data with a few extra booleans, anyway... And i've been working in the industry for over a year now... I call BS

I think it's less about the complexity of making you able to LFP on multiple jobs, and more about the complexity of the required changes to the searching system to accomodate those changes. For example, say you want to LFP on WHM75 while you farm on SMN75, and someone does "/sea all 75". Does your name show up twice, once as WHM and once as SMN? Or do you add a windows-type interface that lets you expand one person's name to show the jobs they are seeking on? It's not as simple as it seems at first. You're pretty much talking about a complete rewrite of the searching system, not to mention making it slower by adding complexity.

I would say more of a minor addition, not a complete rewrite of the searching system. The search system is already pretty fast, and adding in a few more paramaters to the search won't make a massive difference. And as Aurik said, I don't see the problem with having your name listed twice

[Kazen]

seek with Brd, Cor and Rdm all the the same time at lvl 75; i'm sure you'd manage to piss off a few

[LD]

Something I'd like to see them address is avatar pathing. When I move 3 steps north, my avatar shouldn't move 7 steps east, 3 steps north, and 7 steps west to catch up.

Don't hold your breath on this one <_< It's actually a difficult problem.

How so? (Yes, I want a free programming lesson. :D)

I've noticed avatars seem very sensitive to the geometrical shape of the terrain. For example, they always summon in the direction of the steepest grade. Sometimes, I notice them following the terrain in such a way that they go up hills, even short imperceptible ones, in the direction of steepest grade rather than go up "diagonally". However, if they're an inch off that hill, they'll follow the foot of it until following the steepest grade (at their exact point) leads them in the direction of the hill.

It's almost as if they are programmed to follow the gradient, in your direction of x,y,z, until it reaches you.

If that's right, then variations in grade are considered a wall....would it really be so complicated to fix that?

[Boyiee]

Something I'd like to see them address is avatar pathing. When I move 3 steps north, my avatar shouldn't move 7 steps east, 3 steps north, and 7 steps west to catch up.

Also, I don't see how it can possibly be even remotely difficult to associate character data with a few extra booleans, anyway... And i've been working in the industry for over a year now... I call BS

I think it's less about the complexity of making you able to LFP on multiple jobs, and more about the complexity of the required changes to the searching system to accomodate those changes. For example, say you want to LFP on WHM75 while you farm on SMN75, and someone does "/sea all 75". Does your name show up twice, once as WHM and once as SMN? Or do you add a windows-type interface that lets you expand one person's name to show the jobs they are seeking on? It's not as simple as it seems at first. You're pretty much talking about a complete rewrite of the searching system, not to mention making it slower by adding complexity.

I would say more of a minor addition, not a complete rewrite of the searching system. The search system is already pretty fast, and adding in a few more paramaters to the search won't make a massive difference. And as Aurik said, I don't see the problem with having your name listed twice

or 10-15times for some of us. The idea of a windows interface would work great. Select a single name and alot of info comes up on that person, like a little profile... which really isn't that much work.

[Draxy]

Warning: Very Long Post (Hopefully Not Wall of Texted)

If there is one thing I would like to be viewed/changed/whatever would be some sense of progression.

We xp, and as we xp our gear gets better and better, a clear progression. We start to collect our artifact pieces, and we hit level 75, clear progression. We move on to some baby HNMs and early sky fights, finish up kirin maybe a few ground gods and then all sense of progression is shot to hell (or we stay forever on ground gods for obvious reasons). It seems like any sense of linear advancement through the content of the game is gone after 75/sky.

After linkshells get to a certain point a lot of people lose interest in their shell or endgame experience in general because the perception of 'progression' is different to different people because it is never defined. I enjoy the ability to choose different paths when we all hit 75, however I think it stacks the cards against linkshells to an extent. Some people wish to persue ground gods, some limbus or sea gods, some become gil sellers and piss everyone off, and others just take every job to 75 because they can't stand end game.

Because the gear progression is stifled so harshly in this game, it forces people to continue to play the same content repeatedly until they quit or take up a new job. Take for instance sky. I go through sky, obtain all the abjurations possible for me there after spending much time and effort. I've worked hard and so has my linkshell so now were geared out pretty well. Where to next? My linkshell has shown dedication and skill, but we have no clear place to go next for PVE progression. Sea has a lot of nice items, but the fights aren't particularly harder (save JOL,AV) nor the gear a blaring improvement from sky since there is nothing except weapons and torques till the end, drops are harder to obtain and don't benefit enough people to merit dedicating it as 'the next place to go'.

So we could do limbus, which benefits everyone, but again the fights aren't any more challenging after a few attempts and although select pieces are great for a few jobs its not another cog in the progression of a linkshell. Ground gods are definitely a progression for a shell as undeniably there are items that drop there that nothing else in the game can touch, but realistically ... yeah. Dynamis is very fun, can be very challenging and everyone has a chance to obtain items. If any zone in the game keeps true to the idea of progression, I think this would be it. Everyone gets a shot at items, it takes skill and persistance, and for the most part the gear is worth the effort.

The gearing out of a shell needs to be a deciding indicator in the progression of a linkshell and its ability to tackle new content, by having gear make a clear and obvious effect on the outcome of an encounter.


So, I suppose what I'm trying to say is, I wish that there was a timeline of sorts to gauge a linkshell by. When I go here and we do well, get geared out, we go here, and we work our way through this and get geared out (because the gear here is undeniably better than the previous zone), now we go here and we get geared out. The battles progressively get harder and require more skill and gear, ultimately making the previous battles obsolete for people beyond them. This makes room for others wherever they may be in their adventures as some progress into an area and others progress beyond to the next area. This provides fresh content for the hardcore gamers and to the less hardcore, you can progress through at your own pace without competing against those who have done it for years looking on.

Make sea drops worthwhile like sky 2, make ToAU gods like a sky 3. The content is already there, make it worth playing and i promise people will play it. As it is now, everyone seems to farm, merit, or watch darters, its not a difficult fix really and would more than likely give people a reason to login if they felt like they were doing something instead of wasting their time.

-Draxy

[cassiraa]

seek with Brd, Cor and Rdm all the the same time at lvl 75; i'm sure you'd manage to piss off a few

WAR> Hey, would you like a party?
me : Do you have a bard?
WAR> I'm about to ask one.
WAR> Hey, would you like a party?
me: : Do you have a RDM?
WAR> waitaminute....

[Luke]

I like what you posted Draxy. A lot of what you said is how I feel about end-game overall. Eventually the only thing to do is go back and recycle content for your new jobs.

[Saphirea]

What I wish, is if say Blizzard and SE could say "merge" the two together, I've played both and well I wish you could take the good of both games, the instancing the way the "Progression" works in that game with some of the benifits of the two.

Also yes, Aurik I like your idea but we both know its going to be something like PS2 limitations and they will never take a good idea and make it work well.

Also, items like AF2 and stuff from sea, why is it that it takes such a long, drawn out process to get them yet gear from sky is still 9 out of 10 times better. Why isn't there say a set bonus on AF2 a benifit for doing those Dynamis and taking over a year to complete a set (sometimes way way longer)

It seems that people are how you say punished in this game for not being a hardcore gamers. Sitting in DA at 230 in the AM for a day 5 pop when you got work at 730 AM isn't going to happen, yet theres still 200 people each window. You're saying great complaign about it, but whats wrong with having drops from a KS99 but say a KS 300 taking 3 orbs to pop it.

Harder mobs, how manytimes have you beat Nid, KB, Aspid. Has the fights changed at all? We did an aspid the other night with 12 with no where close to the optimal jobs and it was great.

I agree with what most of you guys have said, and it'd be great if there were some changes to the game, making it harder and more worthwhile without having to sit in some areas for what seems forever; waiting on a Wyrm to maybe pop and then have a 1 in what seems 10000000 chance of dropping the gear that we as players want.

[Draxy]

Ultimately I don't think its an issue of difficulty. There are some very difficult fights in the game that are still a challenge. I think it comes down to making fights that are heavily (rare/ex) gear dependant, stepping stones of sort, which give people a direction to flow in the game. Players will stop rehashing the same content if there is an incentive to leave dragons aery that isn't borderline sadistic, like sea. We have seen a lot of updates where they release things like besieged and brenner that are cool for a month then become retarded because nobody gives a shit. I'd trade in all the adjustments to brenner, besieged, and even though my baby chocobo is cute as hell i'd probably trade her in too for something that had some sustaining entertainment.

Honestly I think its too late and the damage is too severe to really bring people back in numbers, however, having something to do aside from meriting with the jobs that players already have at 75 would probably slow the RMT problem in sky or address the overcrowding in certain zones at spawn times because players wouldn't be buying osodes and trying to get abjurations for their 4th 5th and 6th jobs.

-Draxy

[Lithiani]

Ultimately I don't think its an issue of difficulty. There are some very difficult fights in the game that are still a challenge. I think it comes down to making fights that are heavily (rare/ex) gear dependant, stepping stones of sort, which give people a direction to flow in the game.

I implore S-E not to go this route. It will end badly, as endgame linkshells who are already into the higher fights will farm lower content to cockblock any potential competition from catching up to them.

It's a patern that has happened in other MMO games, and given the general attitude of the more negative endgame linkshells, it will happen in FFXI as well.

[Draxy]

be that as it may, the cockblocking of 3 years in dragons aery and the stranglehold that RMT has on sky is 100x worse than at least having the option to go elsewhere. I'm sure an inventive way of getting around pricks is possible. Assaults are, if i'm not mistaken, a form of instancing. Not saying that it is the correct or even practical way it should be handled but they HAVE dabbled in that idea with ToAU. The Dynamis model could also be used, have an item that is buyable or obtained in some way and when used can be given to others to allow entry to battlefields etc. as long as it is not obtained in a way that can be monopolized by any person or group of people.

-Draxy

[Lithiani]

As I've pointed out before, if everything was instanced, there would be no need in th first place for gear-enforced progression anyway.

[Lordender]

All i know is i want better content than 3 year old shit that is way harder with greater rewards... maybe, just maybe, ToAU will have different element hydra's like CoP had with wyrms? if not then where are the rest of the wyrms?

Thunder
water
wind
light

[Khamsin]

As I've pointed out before, if everything was instanced, there would be no need in th first place for gear-enforced progression anyway.

Why would you toss aside gear progression due to instancing?

Even if everything were instanced, it'd still be nice for that gear you got in one instance to allow you to have a chance at surviving an encounter with the next.

They wouldn't even need to instance things, actually. They could just put it in a separate area with a lockout timer. Only one alliance could be in one particular area at a time, but when they're done they can't reenter for, say, 3 days. That'll keep them from cockblocking.

[Lithiani]

As I've pointed out before, if everything was instanced, there would be no need in th first place for gear-enforced progression anyway.

Why would you toss aside gear progression due to instancing?

Even if everything were instanced, it'd still be nice for that gear you got in one instance to allow you to have a chance at surviving an encounter with the next.

They wouldn't even need to instance things, actually. They could just put it in a separate area with a lockout timer. Only one alliance could be in one particular area at a time, but when they're done they can't reenter for, say, 3 days. That'll keep them from cockblocking.

His point was that required gear progression would make people move "up" through a series of NMs. My point was that people fighting the higher tier NMs would deliberately overfarm earlier NMs to cockblock the competition. He then claimed that instancing would prevent this. I simply make the point that if you are instancing, why do you need to relate progression to gear?

The existing example would be Dynamis. Dynamis is an instanced zone, and completion of Dynamis is what gets you access to the next zone. Can you imagine if you had to get your three AF2 city drops before you could enter Dynamis-Beaucedine?

And making lockout timer will not prevent cockblocking of lower tier NMs in a system. Most large HNMLSes have multiple characters available per person, and they will simply have one group of people cockblocking the competition, while another team farm the high tier, and switch people back and forth. And you and I both know that if there is a way to exploit matter to prevent competition like that, it will be done by the more negative endgame linkshells.

[FFXIFlux]

His point was that required gear progression would make people move "up" through a series of NMs. My point was that people fighting the higher tier NMs would deliberately overfarm earlier NMs to cockblock the competition. He then claimed that instancing would prevent this. I simply make the point that if you are instancing, why do you need to relate progression to gear?

Challenge. If a fight is so difficult it's practically impossible without gear upgrades, it's a good thing. Whats the point of killing things for drops if you can kill everything in the game bare naked? I'm going to take a wild guess that you aren't 100% naked in dynamis or at HNMs and you put some effort into getting better gear. Haveing fights that require it is one of the main point for getting that gear.

The existing example would be Dynamis. Dynamis is an instanced zone, and completion of Dynamis is what gets you access to the next zone. Can you imagine if you had to get your three AF2 city drops before you could enter Dynamis-Beaucedine?

Have that AND a lot more content beyond dynamis thats a challenge AND put realistic drop rates on dynamis gear and you'd have a great game.

Instanceing is the main way to prevent cockblocking and at the same time allows developers to keep shitty drop rates so you have to farm the same content repeatedly so they don't have to add as much content. FFXI has taken shitty drop rates to a ridiculous extreme along with the not adding new content.

[Draxy]

I think the reason why Square hasn't done gear upgrades like this already is that they don't want people with gear from these more challenging fights to become too overpowered in xp. Seriously though, if you want your top tier players to perform only slightly better than they did when they first got to 75, whats the point of having end-game content anyways? If i can knock down a 3 headed dog that guards the gates of hell, you're damn right I want to be able to mow down an xp mob. I don't think its too far out of line and would make a whole lot more sense than just avoiding the issue and not releasing any content 'for balance reasons' or releasing gimmick shit like besieged level 6!! Now we can lose even faster because we still don't give a shit!

I really think that Dynamis is a great model to look at for implementing something/this. If I didn't already beat all the dynamis zones, complete my AF2 set and have a shadow mantle, I'd still be doing dynamis every chance I got because its fun and everyone has a chance at drops. If there was something beyond it I'd love to roll right into that and hit the ground running.

-Draxy