Sometimes loyalty hurts big time.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

And I'm just making fun of 90% of the endgame players <.<

[Elcura]

If you join a game late, like a new player in ffxi now, you just don't have the ways to make money. Sure, you can farm some stuff, you can camp some nm's, etc, etc. But when it comes to someone who's been playing a couple months "needing" a haubergeon, an assault earring, enke braceletes, spiked fingers, etc etc etc, there's a limit.

Many new players view approaching that limit of what you can afford puts you in a situation where you have a choice: give up on the game completely, or buy gil.

Oh get real.. nobody needs any of that stuff - player skill and ability to "think on your feet" are like 50 times more important that a haub or any of that other garbage....

When you have 6 75 jobs and half of them are mage jobs and half are melee jobs, you just don't spend all your time dealing with having all the best equip because you understand that skillful play FAR FAR FAR outweighs having an extra +3 STR or +10 ATK... its just trivial crap... using squid sushi for some new player is infinitely better than worrying about a stupid haub

Because it's so hard to play melee jobs in this game....

Hey go fuck yourself fatty.

He's probably only leveled WAR SAM and/or MNK.

I fail to see how any melee job is hard to play...

[edgarfigaro]

I fail to see how any melee job is hard to play...

I could see how thf would be kinda hard to play...mainly because it requires the other 5 people in your party to be semi intelligent. Still...it's not like there's any real job that's hard to play...nin, pld, and possibly rdm, but otherwise if you level a job to 75, you should be relatively decent at it.

[LD]

I fail to see how any melee job is hard to play...

I fail to see how any mage job is difficult to play. :x


....shit, am I starting another 100 years war? ._.

[Alleya]

I fail to see how any melee job is hard to play...

b cuz wit liek drk u have 2 cast and watching ur mp n stuff it really ahrd bcuz rdm dun allways regan ur mp wit spels plus u ned liek snipers n stuf cuz acc is low n those u can only get if u rmt n stuf i mined for like 2 day and only got like 30k so u hav to be lv75 and rich and stuf

If anything any job is hard to do correctly, ie, don't be a fucking dumbass. Beyond that every single job is a point and click affair and requries absolutely no effort to play. The only jobs that require you to think are red mage and white mage. Have to keep those haste/refresh orders and watch enmity gain on long fights.

[Ryko]

I'd say war nin and pld are the only comparatively "hard" melee jobs to play exceptionally, and that's not really saying a lot >_>

[NynJa]

b cuz wit liek drk u have 2 cast and watching ur mp n stuff it really ahrd bcuz rdm dun allways regan ur mp wit spels plus u ned liek snipers n stuf cuz acc is low n those u can only get if u rmt n stuf i mined for like 2 day and only got like 30k so u hav to be lv75 and rich and stuf

EAT SHIT AND DIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[-Omni]

I'd say war nin and pld are the only comparatively "hard" melee jobs to play exceptionally, and that's not really saying a lot >_>

... How?

Not hating on WARs or anything, I love WAR. It just doesn't seem to require nearly as much focus as, say, THF.

Watching Warcry timing, mebbe?

[aurik]

Watch warcry recast timer more like, amirite?

[Ryko]

I'd say war nin and pld are the only comparatively "hard" melee jobs to play exceptionally, and that's not really saying a lot >_>

... How?

Not hating on WARs or anything, I love WAR. It just doesn't seem to require nearly as much focus as, say, THF.

Watching Warcry timing, mebbe?

Because theyre the 3 jobs that actually tank <_<

[Plow]

bleh double post... first one got a page unavailable ; ;

[Plow]

I fail to see how any melee job is hard to play...

I could see how thf would be kinda hard to play...mainly because it requires the other 5 people in your party to be semi intelligent.

Nono, they fixed the "thf can't do dmg if they or their pt is retarded" bug, that's what assasin was for.


Anyway, back to the econ thing:
To the person that said "oh please, you don't need any of that, you can lv 55-75 in a month, and none of it really matters."

First off, note how I put quotes around "need" in my post, I meant to imply that, yes, it technically can be done without it.

However, I challenge you to start a new character, on a new server, where you don't know anyone, and not only make 55-75 in a month on a server where you don't know anyone, but do it on drk or war or sam, rockin af1 and dex rings all the way.

Hopefully you understand that I'm not serious and get what I'm saying there.

Also, I know from experience, I tried to go without a haub when we were all noobs. But, eventually, at level 65, a friend lent me a haub+1 (which was like unheard of back then lol). After that pt I refused to exp again until I'd saved up the gil to get a haub of my own. The difference... it's like levels, literally. Think of it that way. A haubergeon adds, basically, 10 skill, 5 str, and 5 dex. That's pretty much the difference between a level 60 and a level 62 character. (Kinda like Adaberk vs berk is like the difference between a level 75 player with hauberk and a level 76 player with hauberk.)


About the inflation thing: consistent inflation makes it so that basically no matter how much money you have, as long as there are others out there with the same, you won't ever obtain "everything" money can buy. Someone's always willing to pay a little more if they can believe the price will continue to rise. (In theory, at least.) Deflation does the exact opposite: players with enough money for multiple relics at this point basically have everything money can buy, and can always afford more. Basically if you're sitting on billions at this point, making money is no longer a part of the game for you.(At least not a part that matters)

The problem with the inflation in ffxi, in my eyes, has been this: In order for inflation to be productive, it has to be because more goods and services are being offered. There need to be new sources of income, brought about by entire new fields. The problem is, the sources of income are they same as they've always been: finish a quest, kill a monster, or sell something to an npc.

I can't think of the word that I need for that bold part so this isn't coming out right >< I want to say services offered... or... services you can choose to offer... in order to bring new money into the game.

What I mean is that: the problem lies in the options to bring gil into the game. The few options are too easily abused and monopolized. Those who bring in the money basically control everything, and there are very very very few people that legitimately bring mass amounts of money into the game, 99% of players do very little more than trade money around.

[NynJa]

Way 2 dbl post nub.


Asassin is lv60 though...

[ACX]

scuse me sirs what is this thread about exactly

[Plow]

scuse me sirs what is this thread about exactly

http://babble.ytmnd.com/

^ no clickey at work

[Quicklet]

However, I challenge you to start a new character, on a new server, where you don't know anyone, and not only make 55-75 in a month on a server where you don't know anyone, but do it on drk or war or sam, rockin af1 and dex rings all the way.

I'm assuming you mean people who start new characters and don't know anyone shouldn't start a melee character. Seriously, there are jobs that are not THAT expensive to get to at least a decent level (mage jobs basically) so at that point, you just have to decide whether you want an easier time leveling or whether you want to tough it out for a job you like more. So this is probably just stating the obvious.

About the inflation thing: consistent inflation makes it so that basically no matter how much money you have, as long as there are others out there with the same, you won't ever obtain "everything" money can buy. Someone's always willing to pay a little more if they can believe the price will continue to rise. (In theory, at least.) Deflation does the exact opposite: players with enough money for multiple relics at this point basically have everything money can buy, and can always afford more. Basically if you're sitting on billions at this point, making money is no longer a part of the game for you.(At least not a part that matters)

The problem with the inflation in ffxi, in my eyes, has been this: In order for inflation to be productive, it has to be because more goods and services are being offered. There need to be new sources of income, brought about by entire new fields. The problem is, the sources of income are they same as they've always been: finish a quest, kill a monster, or sell something to an npc.

I can't think of the word that I need for that bold part so this isn't coming out right >< I want to say services offered... or... services you can choose to offer... in order to bring new money into the game.

What I mean is that: the problem lies in the options to bring gil into the game. The few options are too easily abused and monopolized. Those who bring in the money basically control everything, and there are very very very few people that legitimately bring mass amounts of money into the game, 99% of players do very little more than trade money around.

Well... it might be better to look at it from the standpoint of what players want. Players can't really do a lot with gil itself anymore... spend money on chocobos, dynamis/limbus, and various materials/items from NPCs. Inflation only helps the people who ride the inflation wave before everyone adjusts to it, and it hurts people who aren't aware of the inflation or who become aware of it too late. Deflation is basically the opposite, the people who lose the gil lose out most (which, in this case, being hopefully RMT banks, isn't actually a bad thing), but those who are spending more money than they would if they knew a money supply crunch was coming still lose out since they retrospectively have a loss. This, of course, becomes more complicated when you have to factor in things like the effects of actual supply and demand, velocity of money, and so forth, but hopefully the concept is pretty clear. Inflation and deflation create winners and losers, and even if you had a constant inflation without many hiccups, people who were smart would still be able to use the inflation to take advantage of other people.

So basically, to reiterate the point I made earlier, the issue isn't fundamentally with the amount of inflation or deflation even though that magnifies the problem. The problem is with supply and demand. Fix the disconnect there and you will have reduced a lot of the problem.

This is a simplification of the whole economic analysis, and if you really wanted to say why the game economy works the way it does, you'd have to factor in the following:
-Player Preferences
-Gil Supply
-Supply of Items
-Effect of RMT on Player Preferences
-Effect of RMT on Supply Competition
-Crafting Dynamics and Effects of Crafting Saturation
-Effect of Server Maturation on Item Demand

Each of those has its own factors and complexities, and there are perhaps even more general factors that escape my memory at the moment, but what's important is that a good understanding of what will actually make the game more enjoyable for the majority of people requires knowing what changes to the game are going to cause what effects. It just so happens that mudflation has been the norm in MMOs because it is an easy way to deal with server maturation even though it has its own drawbacks, but I guess it'd just be interesting to see an MMO economy that was really set up in a way that was not exploitable to the detriment of many players.

[Heian]

I'd say war nin and pld are the only comparatively "hard" melee jobs to play exceptionally, and that's not really saying a lot >_>

Yep. Also up to a certain point gear means alot. In Merit/EXP PTs you will notice it the most but on HNM its hard to tell the difference between (For Example) Enmity+2 vs Enmity+5. Does the increase help? Yes but its very hard to notice, even over a long period of time.

Skill does not go as far as you would like to think it does in this game. Gear is very important to performance in FFXI.

If it isn't then why do people sit in BD/VoS/DA for three hours everyday?

[Quicklet]

If it isn't then why do people sit in BD/VoS/DA for three hours everyday?

For the mass orgies?

[Heian]

If it isn't then why do people sit in BD/VoS/DA for three hours everyday?

For the mass orgies?

FFD. Forced Flail Drama.

[Lithiani]

I'd take exception to the idea of WAR being harder to play than SAM. Both are easy to play badly, I'll grant you, but WAR is a lot more forgiving than SAM is for getting maximum damage output without being a tremendous XP sink.

To really push the limit on Samurai, you have to be constantly aware (and blind aware as well, unless using 3rd party apps, which I don't) of the next likely TP use in sequence, and accomodate for it in weaponskill priority. You need to forever be 3 steps ahead of yourself and everyone else.