Need SAM input on Soboro Sukehiro

[layoneil]

It's a good piece for "soft" targets though.

just because it has lower damage doesn't take away that SAM has an A+ GKT skill and can get really high attack. anything a WAR can Ridill, a SAM can Soboro.

[Kurp]

It's a good piece for "soft" targets though.

just because it has lower damage doesn't take away that SAM has an A+ GKT skill and can get really high attack. anything a WAR can Ridill, a SAM can Soboro.

I don't know about that. My Soboro hasn't seen much higher defense or HNM action, but I do know the difference between a Maneater Rampage, a Soboro Gekko, and a higher D sword's Gekko. Unless I was in a situation where I REALLY needed to sustain 25 or 30 second weapon skills on samurai, I don't think I'd touch Soboro on most HNMs that I'd definitely use Ridill on. I'd rather use the high D swords or a Hagun. Personal preference, I suppose.

[layoneil]

i'm not saying it's better than a Hagun, if the point is for WS damage than definitely use Hagun, if the point is for DoT of melee hits Soboro isn't going to be much worse (if at all).

[Coephoros]

I started exploring Soboro in merit parties a few months ago, and I've been very pleased. The overall output from Soboro is marginally higher than Hagun according to a few parsed sessions, but not zomgwtf higher. But it did take me a while to get a comfortable setup with it, focusing on attack and haste. XP mobs don't seem to WS that much more than usual, but since they die so fast its hard to judge how badly my Soboro is feeding them TP.

If you're a SAM and you haven't already, you need to lose the "WS Onry" mindset of the Hagun and start worrying about your DOT. The new changes are geared towards improving it - WS spam will still have its places, but you're gonna want to take full advantage of your new job ability.

[Kaiseran]

So, Im gussing that Soboro is better than Ushikirimaru too?

[Martinius]

i leveled to 75 w/o a soboro, but my static was such that we did skillchains(gasp) and magic bursts, so i was fine w/o one. also, i honestly think i'd smack anyone who used a soboro on any HNM of consequence... on a kirin my weaponskils did 400-500 dmg more than a comparably equipped sam using one(i've got a couple luxury pieces, ie, shura haidate +1 and alky bracelets that they didnt have, and im elvaan and they were mithra) while i used hagun for anything under 200tp, and on 300tp, i used onimaru or ushimaririku.

quick question tho.. in terms of DoT gear, what should i look for? i've got byakko's haidate, but in my exp build, that's the only haste gear i wear. i can't really imagine getting by losing my shura kabuto for a turban or my life belt for a swift belt(which im in the process of obtaining) and being able to eat meat, but then again, i've never had experience doing it, so if anyone singing the praises of the soboro in merit parties wouldn't mind posting their gear, i'd love to know what to work towards.

[Lithiani]

So, Im gussing that Soboro is better than Ushikirimaru too?

Ushikirimaru's main advantageous stat is the +Enmity for TA hate transfer. Accuracy+ vs. Kirin and Byakko (and Cerberus too, I think) is not a bad thing either.

[Deftscythe]

I know this isn't an endgame question, but since the topic came up...

My Sam is 40 atm and I'm getting a Soboro on Friday. For those Sam's that leveled with one of these, how realistic is it for me to expect any tanks at 50 to keep hate off me weilding one?

[Heian]

I know this isn't an endgame question, but since the topic came up...

My Sam is 40 atm and I'm getting a Soboro on Friday. For those Sam's that leveled with one of these, how realistic is it for me to expect any tanks at 50 to keep hate off me weilding one?

Don't do pick up PTs and you should be fine lol. I PT'd with a couple SAMs on my NIN and they used that and I didn't have any problems at all. Then again I was out parsering everyone in almost every PT I did. Except Serl that mother fucker lol he is a beast....At level 70 I popped on Alky's/O-Hat/Dual Fudo's/ect he pops on Alky's and Ridill >.> (He was a WAR at though lol)

Should be fine with a good tank, making sure you TA when you build too much hate wouldn't hurt either but yeah just gonna depend on the quality of your tank.

[layoneil]

Should be fine with a good tank, making sure you TA when you build too much hate wouldn't hurt either but yeah just gonna depend on the quality of your tank.

not going to TA if you're SAM/WAR or SAM/RNG. i'd say most tanks you run into randomly won't hold hate without you restraining yourself.

[Hyjynx]

I pull hate off tanks at 75 with the lilgaykatana.
It didnt exist when I was lvl 50 but when I do level capped events with that thing I'm a self mpk machine.
Even while running around naked with a horror head on. (lolLevelCappedGear)

Just gotta remember that pulling hate doesnt make you a man and knowing when to hold back can mean the difference between an awesome party and the worst party you've ever been in.

[Karik]

Just gotta remember that pulling hate doesnt make you a man and knowing when to hold back can mean the difference between an awesome party and the worst party you've ever been in.

yarly

[Deftscythe]

Just gotta remember that pulling hate doesnt make you a man and knowing when to hold back can mean the difference between an awesome party and the worst party you've ever been in.

Yeah, I kinda figured I'd be needing to hold off on using it for a while, but it's not a lesson I'd want to learn by experience, if you know what I mean.

[Ashael]

Especially right at 50, right when you get it, make sure your tank is at least 50. I know, duh, it's always better when your tank is same level or higher than the DDs... but it's insanely funny trying to watch a 49 NIN attempt to keep hate off a 50 SAM. You'll of course be laughing and giggling due to the insane fun of Soboro/DA combination, and the mob will be turning towards you and chewing your head off.
Just like with all things, if you're in pickup parties, you'll get good tanks and bad tanks. Most of PLDs I partied with (2 out of 3)were able keep hate, while only like 2 of the NINs were capable (out of like 7-8).
'Course as soon as I dinged 60 and was looking forward to great fun with a heavily STR modded WS and /THF, I went on this extended sabbatical, so what do I know? Most pickups I had to really abuse Third Eye and sometimes hold TP, so I was looking forward to the ability to fuidama the tank myself, just so I know the mob wouldn't chew on my 'serked ass.
Good luck on it Leto, and see you eventually

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

fuidama

rofl i haven't heard that shit since i was a mithra thf

[Tordall]

Don't do pick up PTs and you should be fine lol. I PT'd with a couple SAMs on my NIN and they used that and I didn't have any problems at all. Then again I was out parsering everyone in almost every PT I did. Except Serl that mother fucker lol he is a beast....At level 70 I popped on Alky's/O-Hat/Dual Fudo's/ect he pops on Alky's and Ridill >.> (He was a WAR at though lol)

Why the hell would you use Alkies on ninja? O kotes outparse them, or for that matter, level 27 hume RSE hands. More money than brains?

Back on topic, I had no problems holding hate off a samurai using one of these things, even at level 50 (on war or ninja). I've also never had a good party with someone using one though. In particular ToAU mobs don't have a set delay between their TP moves (like non ToAU mobs do). So you can get mobs going directly from TP move to TP move with only the animation delay slowing them down.

For example, I died in an xp party last night quite a few times thanks to a Kraken Club warrior fighting Skoffins (IT to 75 Wyverns). If the Skoffin did Radiant breath (high damage + silenced -> pop echo drop)-> fang rush (echo drop finishes use, removes any existing shadows, if no existing shadows, high damage taken)-> any other TP move (during Utsuemi:ni recast) I'ld die. I started checking logs and saw that there wasn't even a normal attack from the skoffin between it's TP moves.

Another (less deadly) example is that trolls can very easily go TP->TP->TP etc. since they have high delays on their TP move animations. The chain of TP spam ends when they do diamondhide since that stops them taking damage and gaining TP.

[Plow]

Why the hell would you use Alkies on ninja? O kotes outparse them, or for that matter, level 27 hume RSE hands. More money than brains?

Back on topic, I had no problems holding hate off a samurai using one of these things, even at level 50 (on war or ninja). I've also never had a good party with someone using one though. In particular ToAU mobs don't have a set delay between their TP moves (like non ToAU mobs do). So you can get mobs going directly from TP move to TP move with only the animation delay slowing them down.

For example, I died in an xp party last night quite a few times thanks to a Kraken Club warrior fighting Skoffins (IT to 75 Wyverns). If the Skoffin did Radiant breath (high damage + silenced -> pop echo drop)-> fang rush (echo drop finishes use, removes any existing shadows, if no existing shadows, high damage taken)-> any other TP move (during Utsuemi:ni recast) I'ld die. I started checking logs and saw that there wasn't even a normal attack from the skoffin between it's TP moves.

Another (less deadly) example is that trolls can very easily go TP->TP->TP etc. since they have high delays on their TP move animations. The chain of TP spam ends when they do diamondhide since that stops them taking damage and gaining TP.

This post belongs in the r u dum thread.

Anyway, my advice is this: If you're worried about getting owned cuz of soboro, pt with a war. If they're good, not only will they still outdamage you, but can easily pull hate off when necessary.

From what I've seen soboro is just a sick sick weapon and you can parse much closer to the premier dd's with it than without.

[XxSlusherxx]

I partied in Onzonzo with a soboro sam, and a thf/nin using chickknife/hornetneedle, with good mages (all hasted). It was a fucking S&M fest on me trying to tank for all that tp. we would lose too much mp simply from paralyna and blindna.

[Deftscythe]

I partied in Onzonzo with a soboro sam, and a thf/nin using chickknife/hornetneedle, with good mages (all hasted). It was a fucking S&M fest on me trying to tank for all that tp. we would lose too much mp simply from paralyna and blindna.

Well the TP thing is pretty obvious. It's easy to say "Hmm, should I feed tp to the spider when we have a PLD tank? No, probably not."

[Stilgar]

I was a 54 nin xping on Lesser Colibris with a 55 or 56 Soboro sam. It was annoying as fuck because as soon as the mob was looking at me, the sam would run 20 feet away and Sidewinder. Not to mention the fucking Flurry spam. I was really hoping he'd take hate long enough to die, but he never did.