Stage 5 - Completed Relic Weapons List

[Sho]

Fuck all that, LJ entry or DEATH, Kenshin D:

[Dbill]

Fuck all that, LJ entry or DEATH, Kenshin D:

Maybe he is having to much fun playing with it, taking screen shots, then when someone/himself dies in party and they wait for weakness to come off he posts inbetween. Who knows, but congrats anyway.

[Faranim]

I should also mention that Ruke has an army of mules at his disposal, so it's not uncommon for him to have a personal WHM or RDM PL.

It's not like he's never tanked before as SAM either. He used to open fights as SAM/THF and tank mobs with Hagun. Relic is just broken because you can sub WAR instead of THF and still have crazy WS damage... + Berserk + DA.

I don't even know how much StoreTP Ruke uses, but he probably gets to 100% within 5 hits after a WS. I'm really not surprised at all with the performance of Relic SAM, it's definately one of the most powerful relics out there.

[qatsi2]

Even if amano is that powerful, I don't know how Rukenshin can feel good about his character unless he also gets Yoichinoyumi to complement it.

[chiz]

He most certainly does have the gear to back it up. Nonetheless that 1828 number is pretty damn impressive as Sam/War.

Hell yes, for a one hit WS that doesn't require the help of /thf and 300TP that's just sick.

1828x3 WS at 100Tp = 5484 (3 WS with relic at 100TP) vs. 1 WS at 300TP of same amount (1828) of a non-relic weapon.

All relic weapons are poweful in their own right if done correctly.

It'd take some impossible amount of STR to make that 15% WSC STR difference outweigh the +0.5 fTP advantage Kaiten has over a 300% Gekko. A better comparison would be 3x Catastrophe (2.75 fTP) vs. 1xSpiral Hell (3.625 fTP). But ya, what makes relics great instead of just good is if the relic WS itself clearly outclasses the next best thing.

[RKenshin]

Fara lol, difference between a mule and a character that belongs to someone else! Technically the only mule I have access to now is a THF/BRD/BLM, but I also have access to like 20 people's account info for whatever reason everyone gives it to me. D:

I only use Sylphet for occasionally PLing a PT, but that's usually for when I'm leveling jobs up to 37 or higher. Although recently I did 2 box her as a BRD a few times in BRDless exp PTs (7k/h pickup PTs aren't fun!) or as an outside RDM in PTs where I wasn't so sure how MP would hold up for the given setup. For a PT just a week ago I used her just to keep a Haste cycle going because the RDM in our PT didn't cast Haste on anyone but the NIN. (MP problem I guess?)

Fuck all that, LJ entry or DEATH, Kenshin D:

Maybe he is having to much fun playing with it, taking screen shots, then when someone/himself dies in party and they wait for weakness to come off he posts inbetween. Who knows, but congrats anyway.

Thanks, and I actually make most posts at odd times of the day in between (or sometimes in) classes and/or in between assignments. I get bored easy and especially in some lectures, so I just keep BG, email, and a few other sites always open on my desktop/laptop and refresh them every so often.

Even if amano is that powerful, I don't know how Rukenshin can feel good about his character unless he also gets Yoichinoyumi to complement it.

I don't think I'd want a Yoichinoyumi honestly, I thought about it for a while and it would be fun to have but for the most part it'd be completely different setups to take full advantage of the power of each. I wouldn't really call them compliments IMO outside of just being able to say you have both.

The Yoichi is best used with Soboro for the much faster TP gain to spam Namas Arrow (which would mean I'd have to unequip Amanomurakumo), while if I'm using Amano main I'm better off just using Kaiten for most situations since I'm pretty sure it's the stronger WS. Of course there are probably some situations where one setup is slightly better than the other, but I don't think it'd be very efficient to mix them.



EDIT: And yeah, 5 hits to 100+ TP after a WS in my build. As SAM/WAR in an ideal PT with Haste and Marchx1, GK delay is like 192 total after delay reductions if I calculated correctly... It's insanely fast to get 100 TP (about 960 delay total without misses/DAs), and a little faster /DRG.

[Kirschy]

It'd take some impossible amount of STR to make that 15% WSC STR difference outweigh the +0.5 fTP advantage Kaiten has over a 300% Gekko. A better comparison would be 3x Catastrophe (2.75 fTP) vs. 1xSpiral Hell (3.625 fTP). But ya, what makes relics great instead of just good is if the relic WS itself clearly outclasses the next best thing.

Not to derail too much here... But unless I'm realli mistaken on WS calculation and how fTP works, there's something wrong with the Catastrophe modifier. 300TP Spirals are more than two times as damaging as a 100TP Catastophe. In a situation where I'd use Spiral/Catastrophe over Guillotine (ie; Bahamut 2), it's more efficient to use Martial Scythe and 200TP Spiral over Apocalypse and 100TP Catastrophe.

I should also mention that Ruke has an army of mules at his disposal, so it's not uncommon for him to have a personal WHM or RDM PL.

Even with a personal WHM, it's close to impossible for me DRK/WAR in tp burn effictively. Sadly even with G-Horn BRD I'll still always run my mages out of MP. I've gotta say I'm pretti jealous =Þ.

[chiz]

Not to derail too much here... But unless I'm realli mistaken on WS calculation and how fTP works, there's something wrong with the Catastrophe modifier. 300TP Spirals are more than two times as damaging as a 100TP Catastophe. In a situation where I'd use Spiral/Catastrophe over Guillotine (ie; Bahamut 2), it's more efficient to use Martial Scythe and 200TP Spiral over Apocalypse and 100TP Catastrophe.

Hmmm took a 2nd look at Catastrophe modifiers and that would make sense depending on gear. Sadly, Catastrophe has no STR WSC mod, I thought it had the same shared STR/INT mods as Spinning Slash/Ground Strike/Spiral Hell. Instead it looks like its 40% INT and 40% AGI.

If you're using the same WS gear for Catastrophe and Spiral, the results you're seeing wouldn't surprise me. Typical WS gear for most jobs is going to emphasize STR, so not only are you getting close to 1.0 fTP more on Spiral, but that other ~2.5 fTP is also going to multiply the difference between your STR and AGI as well, which is probably close to a 2:1 ratio in typical WS gear set-ups.

Depending on what sub you use, you may want to consider trying different gear set-ups for Spiral and Catastrophe. I'm not one of those people who's going to advocate buffing WSC mods that don't make sense or come naturally over gear/stats that will help WS damage in any situation. Instead of focusing entirely on STR, you may want to look at more +attack items where you can. You'd essentially be trying to push your pDIF to 2.4-3.0 instead of WSC stat bonuses.

For harder fights like Bahamut2 like you mentioned, I kinda envisioned DRK/THF with Apoc being able to WS like a SAM/THF alternating SA+WS and TA+WS. That would depend on whether or not the TA+WS made it worthwhile though.

[Dbill]

Kirschy Since your in an HNM go naked and start swapping out gears, do straight Int, Straight dex, Straight str, Straight agil. See which modifiers increase your WS. Something tells me Dex is a modifier or straight int. Because Dagger is straight str, same as Great katana. Relics are still a mystery to so many since so few post about them.

[chiz]

Kirschy Since your in an HNM go naked and start swapping out gears, do straight Int, Straight dex, Straight str, Straight agil. See which modifiers increase your WS. Something tells me Dex is a modifier or straight int. Because Dagger is straight str, same as Great katana. Relics are still a mystery to so many since so few post about them.

Ya I think a lot of the relic fTP multipliers and WSC modifiers are still unconfirmed/untested. Its just really odd how they vary from one to another in terms of fTP and how some of them have 2 WSC modifiers instead of just 1. Like some WS have listed 2.75 fTP multipliers instead of 3.0 (both 1h and 2h). Most of the 2H weapons have 2 WSC modifiers at 40% where almost all 1H WS have 1 WSC modifier at 60%.

There's really no set pattern to the differences either, based solely on the published reports. Only VZX and FFXIwiki seem to update their info for Relic WS and its hard to tell what they're basing their testing on. I suppose much of it is based on anecdotal updates from relic owners, but I'm pretty sure FFXIwiki had Mercy listed as 60% DEX until Aurik/Wafik tested and found it to be STR. I believe both sites list Namas as unconfirmed even now.

It'd be nice if more relic owners got out there and tested the fTP and WSC properties, but I'd really like to see if the fTP multipliers are indeed 2.75 and 3.0 for different WS. WSC isn't such a big deal though, either you got lucky with STR (or even DEX, although AGI is good for RNG), or you're just shit outta luck in that category.

[Dbill]

Could one of the modifiers determine the amount drained back onto you? Who knows. Something has got to make these relics stronger. I know it's not the end all end all weapons but some weapons like destroyers kinda almost dead on. Relic h2h is only 2-3% better then destroyers. Could it be like a 20k Latent effect? Who knows.

[Jeryhn]

Just a side note... Sweeping Flail, Impulsion and Horrible Roar are three very good reasons why a melee, relic or not, would not even be considered for Bahamut v2.

[chiz]

Just a side note... Sweeping Flail, Impulsion and Horrible Roar are three very good reasons why a melee, relic or not, would not even be considered for Bahamut v2.

You can TP off to the side with sleep pots or meditate and just run in to WS. If the WS itself does good damage AND plants hate, its worthwhile. THF for TH, DRK for SE+Kraken on a wyrm make them decent choices if you don't have enough BLMs.

[Jeryhn]

I didn't say melee damage wasn't good in the BC. But you're better off getting it from a well-geared SMN than a melee who could be leveled by any one of these attacks creating yet another MP sink.

Both NIN/WAR and PLD/NIN can hold hate on Bahamut just fine without needing TA as well.

[yayaok]

mr ruke, if you have the chance could you ask muteki how he enjoys sam+amaro/yoichi? or does he soboro/yoichi like you stated? maybe you could tell us from what you've seen :wink:

hurry and go make yourself even more famous, break that 2k kaiten!

[Dbill]

Geeez and he still hasn't give us a nice update in his LJ. What is it with Great Katana owners. Nodachi took almost a week to give us an update. lol

[TsingTao]

I wouldn' stop having Relic induced fun after all that work and time to post anything right away either. Screw people like us for a bit, time for some well earned fun.

He did mention that he's busy with school at the end of the semester as well.

[Dbill]

I wouldn' stop having Relic induced fun after all that work and time to post anything right away either. Screw people like us for a bit, time for some well earned fun.

He did mention that he's busy with school at the end of the semester as well.

Ya hehe it was sarcasm, but everyone knows ffxi > IRL hehe jking

[Kirschy]

I honestly would like to go out and test the actual mods on Scythe... but besides for using a BRD and etudes with a bunch of WSs, I wouldn't realli know how to test it. (If anyone wants to tell me what to do, I'd be more than happy to figure this out.) I've used full INT/AGI builds before... it doesn't help Catastrophe anymore than a full STR build does. (Yes I literalli wore crap like Snow Rings in my WS macro :/)

As for Baha2... TA Catastrophe did about 450 damage. SA Spiral (with Martial Scythe) did 1250ish. I used sleep pots to TP off on the side. I happen to have well geared SMN + NIN also, but I wanted to see what DRK was capable of. Like Jeryhn said, if it didn't have such obnoxious AoEs it'd be a lot better... Average melee hit was around 100 damage. My LS takes it down in chunks, so there was realli no point at which I could SE+Kraken.

For the drain effect it appears to be 10%-100% drain. I'm not sure if any stats directly affect it... but it does appear to be affected by Dark Weather/Day. Dynamis drains always proc higher, and the only times I've gotten 100% drain to proc. (Imagine if Dark obi affected the drain :/)

[Dbill]

I honestly would like to go out and test the actual mods on Scythe... but besides for using a BRD and etudes with a bunch of WSs, I wouldn't realli know how to test it. (If anyone wants to tell me what to do, I'd be more than happy to figure this out.) I've used full INT/AGI builds before... it doesn't help Catastrophe anymore than a full STR build does. (Yes I literalli wore crap like Snow Rings in my WS macro :/)

As for Baha2... TA Catastrophe did about 450 damage. SA Spiral (with Martial Scythe) did 1250ish. I used sleep pots to TP off on the side. I happen to have well geared SMN + NIN also, but I wanted to see what DRK was capable of. Like Jeryhn said, if it didn't have such obnoxious AoEs it'd be a lot better... Average melee hit was around 100 damage. My LS takes it down in chunks, so there was realli no point at which I could SE+Kraken.

For the drain effect it appears to be 10%-100% drain. I'm not sure if any stats directly affect it... but it does appear to be affected by Dark Weather/Day. Dynamis drains always proc higher, and the only times I've gotten 100% drain to proc. (Imagine if Dark obi affected the drain :/)

Best bet Kirschy is to sub thf. Fight Lesser Cor (birdies outside). Get yourself a Pld tank so they can semi hold hate. Build 100TP, fight naked btw, since you have abs spells, use them. Abs Dex WS do that 10 times. Then do Abs Str, and so one doing the test 10x with all abs spells. U should see in increase with certain abs spells. Best way I can think of without spending or borrowing gear.

TA any WS kinda sucks. SA is where they shine. How can you compare a TA Cata vs. a SA Spiral Hell. If you TA Spiral Hell I bet it probably would be near same damage as TA Cata.

Something is wrong here with scythe, it's the highest damage Relic (weapon) FFXI has, why wouldn't it put out the strongest numbers. Your like the only NA that I see posting about it.

Oh I have read somewhere that WS goes through shadows is that true too?