Stage 5 - Completed Relic Weapons List

[Therin]

I got a question concerning relic weapon skills namely "Scourge" the weapon skill you get from Ragnarok. Ive read in a few places that CHR and MND are the WS mods but having Ragnarok and doing extensive testing on the mods for a few months now I am convinced that they are not the mods. Has anyone heard any other mods it may be?

Can you elaborate on your tests? What sort of gear/what kind of stat bonuses did you use? How large of a sample size? What kind of mobs?

If CHR and MND weren't the modifiers for Scourge, that would make Ragnarok less suck.

Still wouldn't be worth upgrading, but not quite as bad as we see it, now.

*EDIT* And yeah, Subduer +1. In other words, on /SAM, Algol is still better (hi2u 6-hit build, which isn't possible with Ragnarok). In order for Ragnarok to be worth upgrading, they'd need to boost the base damage by 2-3 points (being 1 higher than the Algol is lolworthy), make Scourge a 50% STR modifier WS, and increase the delay to 480-489 so that you can maintain a 6-hit build. It still wouldn't be as good as an Apocalypse (because of Apocalypse's capability of zerging), but it'd be very formidable in its own right.

[Veli]

Didn't you just answer your own question there?

It's like a Subduer +1 as I recall.

I heard apoc sucked for like 2 years... Thats the reason I only ask people that have the weapon..

[Max™]

Well, whenever I ask Vivaud about it on Carby, he always makes a kind of sad JP squiggle face and then mentions his Apoc with a \(^_^)/ type thing, and well, he has both soooo...

The post WS crit thing sounds neat, if it was really like mighty strikes and let you do Crit WSes it would be fuckin awesome I'd imagine > Scourge > get Crit effect > Spinning Slash Crit.

[Therin]

Well, whenever I ask Vivaud about it on Carby, he always makes a kind of sad JP squiggle face and then mentions his Apoc with a \(^_^)/ type thing, and well, he has both soooo...

The post WS crit thing sounds neat, if it was really like mighty strikes and let you do Crit WSes it would be fuckin awesome I'd imagine > Scourge > get Crit effect > Spinning Slash Crit.

It's not, it's +5% critical hit rate, added on top of the +5% from the weapon itself, therefore it only affects regular swings. Fun, but crappy overall.

[Max™]

Combined with the whole Great Sword being a little lackluster anyway, it's best WSes having high TP mods (Martial Sword ftw), and it being a marginal upgrade over a Subduer, yeah it's kinda meh... neat lookin though!

[Angrist]

I love the Ragnarok I honestly dont know why everyone is so down on it ; ; yeah you cant do the 6 hit thing but you dont need it with absorb-TP. The 2x-3x dmg procs alot on critical hits. The crit rate is much higher than 5% its more like 10% and after scourge it goes up very high (40%-60%) after scourge 2/4 hits always crit and alot of the time for 800+ dmg. Granted the dmg could be higher 86 is lame. With the proper haste build you can "zerg" all you want and hit the haste cap easy enough. As to your questions which gear I used while testing I just went nekkid, used /thf, used absorb-MND/CHR and SA'd bunnies in east ron. Now obviously the absorb spells dont give the same amount of MND and or CHR each time but it was never more than 1 to 2 points off. I figured it wouldnt make much of a difference in the avg. WS dmg. The fact is even with the mods from the spells it was not any higher avg. than w/o using the absorb spells.

[Izzy]

"Oh nice, new dagger?"

[Neosutra]

I love the Ragnarok I honestly dont know why everyone is so down on it ; ; yeah you cant do the 6 hit thing but you dont need it with absorb-TP. The 2x-3x dmg procs alot on critical hits. The crit rate is much higher than 5% its more like 10% and after scourge it goes up very high (40%-60%) after scourge 2/4 hits always crit and alot of the time for 800+ dmg. Granted the dmg could be higher 86 is lame. With the proper haste build you can "zerg" all you want and hit the haste cap easy enough. As to your questions which gear I used while testing I just went nekkid, used /thf, used absorb-MND/CHR and SA'd bunnies in east ron. Now obviously the absorb spells dont give the same amount of MND and or CHR each time but it was never more than 1 to 2 points off. I figured it wouldnt make much of a difference in the avg. WS dmg. The fact is even with the mods from the spells it was not any higher avg. than w/o using the absorb spells.

Get a brd with etudes to do the same tests on each of your stats and repeat the test you did. It should be pretty easy to determine the exact percentage from each stat and comfirm/deny the mods.

As for the GSs capability and zerg potential:

For max haste zerg~ Turban, dusk gloves+1, homam legs/feet, V.belt adds up to 21%. Blitz ring can take you up to 22%, but you are forces to sub drg and use the wyvern earring to really get the cap w/o apoc, removing the ability to stack hasso and max haste. With sam sub and hasso, and GS, you are only 4.8~% away from cap when having double SV march, haste, hasso, desperate blows. Unfortunately the exponential effects of haste makes a loss of 4.8% fucking HUGE, not to mention much lower base damage.

When comparing the two to a zerg fight, apoc blows GS out of the water.

However, if you come back with some evidence that the mods are not infact mnd/chr, and perhaps str/dex or something, it might be a worthwhile weapon for just fun/DD. The fact that you are claiming a MUCH higher crit hit rate increase from the sword and WS as well opens up many questions on the swords overall potential and performance in everyday scenarios.

[wop]

We went 1/4 for her attestation. Kept getting lolGS.

Finally!

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...p/MeuAegis.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2.../MeuAegis2.jpg

[SilverBreeze]

Omg TWO Taru aegis paladins, that is so cuuuute.

Congratulations! I wish we had more Taru paladins, we have 3 Elvaans and a Hume -.-

[RKenshin]

Didn't you just answer your own question there?

It's like a Subduer +1 as I recall.

I heard apoc sucked for like 2 years... Thats the reason I only ask people that have the weapon..

I think all weapons are amazing in their own regard, problem is that it takes someone with the right gear and frame of mind to use a weapon to its fullest potential before it's recognized as being worthwhile. This is obviously in addition to making their experiences public so that it can be known to more than just the few people they interact with on their server.

Which combined, sadly, is rather rare. .

Personally I really think that Gugnir in the right hands could be really powerful, but we just don't see that anywhere. On the same note I know first hand that Bravura packs a lot of power; a lot more than most people probably realize. But, again, similar problem with it not being publicized as so.

[SilverBreeze]

I agree, I wish there was more information on Gungnir/Bravura/Ragnarok. It seemed for a long time that Aegis and Ghorn were the only relics worth upgrading, but now that we've come a while and there's been many more relics obtained, people have opened up to GK, Scythe, and especially Mandau.

[AkashiXI]

There's a part of me that wishes the modifiers weren't CHR/MND for Rag. I'm a huge weapon fan (reason why I leveled WAR really) but after finding out my 2nd favorite weapon is a huge +1 it got me disappointed. Ah well, at least GSD was granted the divine powers of Algol. <_<

[Titanss]

We went 1/4 for her attestation. Kept getting lolGS.

Finally!

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...p/MeuAegis.jpg
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2.../MeuAegis2.jpg

Those are some mean looking toons
Grats man

[Therin]

I love the Ragnarok I honestly dont know why everyone is so down on it ; ; yeah you cant do the 6 hit thing but you dont need it with absorb-TP. The 2x-3x dmg procs alot on critical hits. The crit rate is much higher than 5% its more like 10% and after scourge it goes up very high (40%-60%) after scourge 2/4 hits always crit and alot of the time for 800+ dmg. Granted the dmg could be higher 86 is lame. With the proper haste build you can "zerg" all you want and hit the haste cap easy enough. As to your questions which gear I used while testing I just went nekkid, used /thf, used absorb-MND/CHR and SA'd bunnies in east ron. Now obviously the absorb spells dont give the same amount of MND and or CHR each time but it was never more than 1 to 2 points off. I figured it wouldnt make much of a difference in the avg. WS dmg. The fact is even with the mods from the spells it was not any higher avg. than w/o using the absorb spells.

Is the crit really that high? Granted, you're the one with the sword, and I'm not. I've seen Piko use his here on Cerberus and never notice a crit rate that impressed me, even with Scourge activated. I'd really like to see a nice parse with 25%+ crit rate overall, from a merit party, just to confirm that 100%.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Jesus you got your PLD to 75 fast...

[Vishnevskiy]

Didn't you just answer your own question there?

It's like a Subduer +1 as I recall.

I heard apoc sucked for like 2 years... Thats the reason I only ask people that have the weapon..

I think all weapons are amazing in their own regard, problem is that it takes someone with the right gear and frame of mind to use a weapon to its fullest potential before it's recognized as being worthwhile. This is obviously in addition to making their experiences public so that it can be known to more than just the few people they interact with on their server.

Which combined, sadly, is rather rare. .

Personally I really think that Gugnir in the right hands could be really powerful, but we just don't see that anywhere. On the same note I know first hand that Bravura packs a lot of power; a lot more than most people probably realize. But, again, similar problem with it not being publicized as so.

The problem with Bravura is that WAR/SAM is already overpowered, it can keep up with Apoc in parses just with Perdu Voulge. The only thing Bravura will make you do is more damage on the parse, but the weapon skill after effect has much to be desired.

Whats amazing about Apoc is that it kinda changes the play style of DRK and makes it stand out of the average DRK.

I was collecting coins for Bravura, but after talking to a few Great Axe owners, they had the same feeling as me, so I switched to Apoc.

It's not a bad relic, if you want to get higher on the parse but still spam Raging Rush.

[ninjafox]

Didn't you just answer your own question there?

It's like a Subduer +1 as I recall.

I heard apoc sucked for like 2 years... Thats the reason I only ask people that have the weapon..

I think all weapons are amazing in their own regard, problem is that it takes someone with the right gear and frame of mind to use a weapon to its fullest potential before it's recognized as being worthwhile. This is obviously in addition to making their experiences public so that it can be known to more than just the few people they interact with on their server.

Which combined, sadly, is rather rare. .

Personally I really think that Gugnir in the right hands could be really powerful, but we just don't see that anywhere. On the same note I know first hand that Bravura packs a lot of power; a lot more than most people probably realize. But, again, similar problem with it not being publicized as so.

The problem with Bravura is that WAR/SAM is already overpowered, it can keep up with Apoc in parses just with Perdu Voulge. The only thing Bravura will make you do is more damage on the parse, but the weapon skill after effect has much to be desired.

Whats amazing about Apoc is that it kinda changes the play style of DRK and makes it stand out of the average DRK.

I was collecting coins for Bravura, but after talking to a few Great Axe owners, they had the same feeling as me, so I switched to Apoc.

It's not a bad relic, if you want to get higher on the parse but still spam Raging Rush.

Isn't this the whole point of it though? Aside from the obvious Ghorn and aegis, the weapons all, including apoc, will just make you do more damage in the long run. Granted Apoc has the additional effect that does make it more appealing if you do zerg fights, but essentially when broken down, its the same as bravura, mandau and the rest.

[ringthree]

Didn't you just answer your own question there?

It's like a Subduer +1 as I recall.

Personally I really think that Gugnir in the right hands could be really powerful, but we just don't see that anywhere. On the same note I know first hand that Bravura packs a lot of power; a lot more than most people probably realize. But, again, similar problem with it not being publicized as so.

Stealing Aurik's idea, I tested the naked Elvaan Gungnir Dragoon with full polearm merits on Greater Colibri with FFXI calc... 86.1% accuracy. This is before you consider other things like the pretty common 17% defense cut. Honestly, SAM was greatly improved by the two-handed update, but DRG was probably second.

[Siralin]

Jesus you got your PLD to 75 fast...

I thought the exact same thing. But with an Aegis in my inventory, I'd be pretty hellbent on getting 75 asap.