Stage 5 - Completed Relic Weapons List

[shieldsofwindurst]

Didn't you just answer your own question there?

It's like a Subduer +1 as I recall.

I heard apoc sucked for like 2 years... Thats the reason I only ask people that have the weapon..

I think all weapons are amazing in their own regard, problem is that it takes someone with the right gear and frame of mind to use a weapon to its fullest potential before it's recognized as being worthwhile. This is obviously in addition to making their experiences public so that it can be known to more than just the few people they interact with on their server.

Which combined, sadly, is rather rare. .

Personally I really think that Gugnir in the right hands could be really powerful, but we just don't see that anywhere. On the same note I know first hand that Bravura packs a lot of power; a lot more than most people probably realize. But, again, similar problem with it not being publicized as so.

Rhealana on Garuda rocks Gungnir pretty fucking hardcore. Fully merited everything you can on drg, hommam/askar w/e you can get (not a drg, dunno what's HQ for drg, just know he's pretty maxed out). If you have specific tests you want done to show what Gungnir can do, post them or pm me and I'll pass them on and try to get the results.

[RKenshin]

Stealing Aurik's idea, I tested the naked Elvaan Gungnir Dragoon with full polearm merits on Greater Colibri with FFXI calc... 86.1% accuracy. This is before you consider other things like the pretty common 17% defense cut. Honestly, SAM was greatly improved by the two-handed update, but DRG was probably second.

Yep.

The way I see a perfect Gungnir setup would be a 6-hit build with 67% haste resulting in 158 delay, combined with Jump/High Jump spam that is equivalent to almost 90 extra swings each hour (~18 extra WS/hour), an easily obtainable 95% accuracy, along with a hard hitting 100 base damage weapon with plenty of attack in use with it. Plus spamming a pretty damn strong WS to boot, on mobs that are going to often have defense down.

Just imagine that on birds too.

EDIT: @ above post, thanks for the notice although I'm not likely to upgrade a Gungnir (only because I have something else in mind, I would love to try to use it to its potential), so there isn't anything in particular I want to know. But I am rather curious how the WS average is with Penta Thrust if you wouldn't mind.

[underscore]

Didn't you just answer your own question there?

It's like a Subduer +1 as I recall.

I heard apoc sucked for like 2 years... Thats the reason I only ask people that have the weapon..

I think all weapons are amazing in their own regard, problem is that it takes someone with the right gear and frame of mind to use a weapon to its fullest potential before it's recognized as being worthwhile. This is obviously in addition to making their experiences public so that it can be known to more than just the few people they interact with on their server.

Which combined, sadly, is rather rare. .

Personally I really think that Gugnir in the right hands could be really powerful, but we just don't see that anywhere. On the same note I know first hand that Bravura packs a lot of power; a lot more than most people probably realize. But, again, similar problem with it not being publicized as so.

The problem with Bravura is that WAR/SAM is already overpowered, it can keep up with Apoc in parses just with Perdu Voulge. The only thing Bravura will make you do is more damage on the parse, but the weapon skill after effect has much to be desired.

Whats amazing about Apoc is that it kinda changes the play style of DRK and makes it stand out of the average DRK.

I was collecting coins for Bravura, but after talking to a few Great Axe owners, they had the same feeling as me, so I switched to Apoc.

It's not a bad relic, if you want to get higher on the parse but still spam Raging Rush.

Isn't this the whole point of it though? Aside from the obvious Ghorn and aegis, the weapons all, including apoc, will just make you do more damage in the long run. Granted Apoc has the additional effect that does make it more appealing if you do zerg fights, but essentially when broken down, its the same as bravura, mandau and the rest.

this is true for almost every weapon except apoc. the hp drain on cata really puts it above other relics especially coupled with drk's utility spells and ja's, and that's on top of what the haste on cata allows for.

iIf you think about it the added effect on the other weapons don't really do all that much more for their respective jobs, with the exception of excal's hp based dmg. The 20acc on amano and bravura with the 2h update allows for meat usage with 90%+acc on pretty much every mob in the game, but other than that that they don't really allow you to do anything different from the next best weapon other than more damage(obviously).

edit: it's not just amano and bravura, pretty much any 2her with +20acc can aim for the same type of setup(max haste, sam sj, store tp gear/food) and do the most dmg of that respective job/weapon. ragnarok would have to be 7hit instead of 6hit but the lower delay slightly makes up for that.

[Neosutra]

Whats the exact effect of the HP drain on Cata? Just WS damage is drained?

[RKenshin]

I've never seen an exact amount posted anywhere, usually it's just something like 20-40% of your health?

this is true for almost every weapon except apoc. the hp drain on cata really puts it above other relics especially coupled with drk's utility spells and ja's, and that's on top of what the haste on cata allows for.

iIf you think about it the added effect on the other weapons don't really do all that much more for their respective jobs, with the exception of excal's hp based dmg. The 20acc on amano and bravura with the 2h update allows for meat usage with 90%+acc on pretty much every mob in the game, but other than that that they don't really allow you to do anything different from the next best weapon other than more damage(obviously).

I think I have to disagree to an extent. Only because you could argue the same for other relics, or at least I feel I can for how I use mine.

There is much more use you can put into the additional power that relics have other than simply doing damage. Apoc's use in particular is an obvious survivability/tanking benefit since the weapon assists in this directly in a particular benefit (the benefit being the HP drain). However at the same time, while Tachi: Kaiten doesn't have an additional effect "work as an effective tank" that's basically what the relic has allowed me to do.

The significantly higher DoT and WS damage results I get from simply using Amano allows me to use tanking gear and food while still maintaining a significant damage output, especially if I have support through songs or other buffs. It works incredibly well, especially coupled with all the tanking gear SAM has access to (just like HP drain working in unison with DRK's spells). This is something I couldn't do anywhere near as easily or effectively with a Hagun or any other SAM weapon. So while my relic does not give any obvious additional effect that changes how I play, the growth in damage by itself does.

And, I'm sure the same could be argued for many other relics. Obviously it doesn't have to be tanking either, it could be any number of additional and useful functions that are opened up in using the relic .


EDIT: Actually, here's a Gungnir question. Is it really a chance at 3x damage and not 2.5x? Almost all of the 2h relics, especially the high base damage ones, have a 2.5x triple chance.

[underscore]

has it allowed you to main tank in situations outside of merit parties or salvage(or similar class events)? because with proper food, equip, and a relic any job could tank in that situation. sam and mnk would just be more efficient at it due to emnity/-dmg% being on the same pieces as well as not having to sacrifice alot of haste pieces to get a high amount of said emnmity/-dmg%.

[shieldsofwindurst]

I've never seen an exact amount posted anywhere, usually it's just something like 20-40% of your health?

this is true for almost every weapon except apoc. the hp drain on cata really puts it above other relics especially coupled with drk's utility spells and ja's, and that's on top of what the haste on cata allows for.

iIf you think about it the added effect on the other weapons don't really do all that much more for their respective jobs, with the exception of excal's hp based dmg. The 20acc on amano and bravura with the 2h update allows for meat usage with 90%+acc on pretty much every mob in the game, but other than that that they don't really allow you to do anything different from the next best weapon other than more damage(obviously).

I think I have to disagree to an extent. Only because you could argue the same for other relics, or at least I feel I can for how I use mine.

There is much more use you can put into the additional power that relics have other than simply doing damage. Apoc's use in particular is an obvious survivability/tanking benefit since the weapon assists in this directly in a particular benefit (the benefit being the HP drain). However at the same time, while Tachi: Kaiten doesn't have an additional effect "work as an effective tank" that's basically what the relic has allowed me to do.

The significantly higher DoT and WS damage results I get from simply using Amano allows me to use tanking gear and food while still maintaining a significant damage output, especially if I have support through songs or other buffs. It works incredibly well, especially coupled with all the tanking gear SAM has access to (just like HP drain working in unison with DRK's spells). This is something I couldn't do anywhere near as easily or effectively with a Hagun or any other SAM weapon. So while my relic does not give any obvious additional effect that changes how I play, the growth in damage by itself does.

And, I'm sure the same could be argued for many other relics. Obviously it doesn't have to be tanking either, it could be any number of additional and useful functions that are opened up in using the relic .


EDIT: Actually, here's a Gungnir question. Is it really a chance at 3x damage and not 2.5x? Almost all of the 2h relics, especially the high base damage ones, have a 2.5x triple chance.

Will pass on this question, as well as the avg pentathrust question.

[ninjafox]

Should probably choose your words better, because what you're saying doesn't apply to all relics. Case in point being the rng relics essentially wiping hate entirely.

[Suiram]

Should probably choose your words better, because what you're saying doesn't apply to all relics. Case in point being the rng relics essentially wiping hate entirely.

My understanding was that the ranged WSs were both hate-free or low-hate just for the WS damage, but the add effects were different, where Namas is just Ranged Accuracy (no other effect on hate gained from prior or subsequent actions) and Coronach reduces the hate generated by subsequent attacks for a period of time (like Dirge, but probably more potent). Is that wrong?

[Therin]

this is true for almost every weapon except apoc. the hp drain on cata really puts it above other relics especially coupled with drk's utility spells and ja's, and that's on top of what the haste on cata allows for.

iIf you think about it the added effect on the other weapons don't really do all that much more for their respective jobs, with the exception of excal's hp based dmg. The 20acc on amano and bravura with the 2h update allows for meat usage with 90%+acc on pretty much every mob in the game, but other than that that they don't really allow you to do anything different from the next best weapon other than more damage(obviously).

edit: it's not just amano and bravura, pretty much any 2her with +20acc can aim for the same type of setup(max haste, sam sj, store tp gear/food) and do the most dmg of that respective job/weapon. ragnarok would have to be 7hit instead of 6hit but the lower delay slightly makes up for that.

It's sad and I know people will laugh at me for following in Tekki's footsteps, but this is essentially the reason why I've chosen to work on Excalibur over Aegis. A well-equipped PLD with strong support can tank anything in the game with a Koenig Shield - there is no mob that requires an Aegis to tank. You can't even make a case that you'd need an Aegis to survive against AV, because even Aegis PLDs can't do that. While an Excalibur may not be as useful on HNMs for an HNMLS PLD as an Aegis is, it opens up a LOT more possibilities for the job, where Aegis only enhances the effectiveness for what we already could do with a Koenig Shield.

Who knows though, if the Reflect damage spell that SE talked about implementing really does Reflect the damage blocked, I might change my mind again. ;P

[underscore]

Should probably choose your words better, because what you're saying doesn't apply to all relics. Case in point being the rng relics essentially wiping hate entirely.

yeah i probably should. im just bitter about the relic i picked, especially playing with an apoc every day.

[Rhealana]

EDIT: Actually, here's a Gungnir question. Is it really a chance at 3x damage and not 2.5x? Almost all of the 2h relics, especially the high base damage ones, have a 2.5x triple chance.

I've had it for almost two months now.. and I'm inclined to believe 2.5x damage.

I Penta Thrust WS average about 1k as DRG/WHM on Nyzul Colibri with no buffs, no double attacks, no food.

With full buffs, a DA proc and no food as /WHM, I've hit 1900+.

I don't merit as anything other than /WHM anymore simply for the fact that I end up tanking anyways.. and to be less of a MP sponge for the party healer. Nowadays I can usually get a refresher, puller and 3 lower level xp leeches and still pull in 12-13k xp/hour at Colibri camp with Gungnir.

[Therin]

EDIT: Actually, here's a Gungnir question. Is it really a chance at 3x damage and not 2.5x? Almost all of the 2h relics, especially the high base damage ones, have a 2.5x triple chance.

I've had it for almost two months now.. and I'm inclined to believe 2.5x damage.

I Penta Thrust WS average about 1k as DRG/WHM on Nyzul Colibri with no buffs, no double attacks, no food.

With full buffs, a DA proc and no food as /WHM, I've hit 1900+.

I don't merit as anything other than /WHM anymore simply for the fact that I end up tanking anyways.. and to be less of a MP sponge for the party healer. Nowadays I can usually get a refresher, puller and 3 lower level xp leeches and still pull in 12-13k xp/hour at Colibri camp with Gungnir.

Wouldn't /SAM be even less of an MP sponge? You'd rarely get hit and kill mobs much, much faster. <_>

[Rhealana]

Wouldn't /SAM be even less of an MP sponge? You'd rarely get hit and kill mobs much, much faster. <_>

No. I end up tanking 90% of the time. Third Eye is useless for those situations.

And being able to help cure/healing breath other party members (especially if the RDM gets lullabied) is useful. Finally, Dia acts as a slightly delayed Stun for the Colibri as they absorb and recast the spell.

[RKenshin]

Thanks for the responses, and I actually think the /WHM idea is pretty cool. It's easy to forget how awesome healing breath can be.

Upgrading polearm should so give you a relic wyvern too though.

has it allowed you to main tank in situations outside of merit parties or salvage(or similar class events)? because with proper food, equip, and a relic any job could tank in that situation. sam and mnk would just be more efficient at it due to emnity/-dmg% being on the same pieces as well as not having to sacrifice alot of haste pieces to get a high amount of said emnmity/-dmg%.

Yes, and yeah as you mentioned it's mostly attributed to the other gear and abilities available. I have an enmity set of gear with over +40 enmity I've been using for Provoke when necessary, in addition to a defense set that does its job just as well (if not better) than my NIN's. Having access to provoke is also a key factor, as only like 3-4 jobs can while not getting eaten after using it.

Ironic thing about all this though, is I'm likely going for an Apoc within the next few months lol. I'm still not 100% decided but I'm 99% sure I'd have more fun with an Apoc than anything else at this point.

[Stolin]

Wouldn't /SAM be even less of an MP sponge? You'd rarely get hit and kill mobs much, much faster. <_>

DRG/Mage(especially /blu) conserves well infinitely more MP than /sam. With cocoon up colibri hit for less than 100 damage, and you can solo heal an entire party@Gcolibris and duo-heal@mamools with just refresh sanction and ares cuirass. DRG heals are 10x more mp efficient than RDM heals are.

[Baha]

Bravura isn't really a bad relic, extra SC (yes, lolz, but it's a perk) possibilities, it's a 2hander, good DMG and delay, decent added effect, decent WS. Gugnir probably the same in the hands of a good DRG. But Ragnarok, the stats just don't seem too impressive compared to Algol and Subduer. And greatswords are in and of themselves not that great, so yeah.. :/

Casting off the "horn, shield or gtfo" dogma's been refreshing though. Seeing shiny new animations, no matter how shitty, is more 'fun' than seeing lower numbers on a pld, or higher numbers on an mp bar anyway. ;p

[Therin]

Okay, I get that healing breath is extremely effective for MP recovery, and I stand corrected, but WTF @ this statement:

No. I end up tanking 90% of the time. Third Eye is useless for those situations.

I am so confused. o_o

[Neosutra]

Bravura isn't really a bad relic, extra SC (yes, lolz, but it's a perk) possibilities, it's a 2hander, good DMG and delay, decent added effect, decent WS. Gugnir probably the same in the hands of a good DRG. But Ragnarok, the stats just don't seem too impressive compared to Algol and Subduer. And greatswords are in and of themselves not that great, so yeah.. :/

Casting off the "horn, shield or gtfo" dogma's been refreshing though. Seeing shiny new animations, no matter how shitty, is more 'fun' than seeing lower numbers on a pld, or higher numbers on an mp bar anyway. ;p

Im revoking your ability to post here until you return to salvage.

[RKenshin]

The general belief is that the Third Eye potency isn't quite as reliable through use of /SAM in comparison to SAM main, and I tend to agree through experiences on WAR/SAM and DRK/SAM. A lot of how effectively I can Seigan tank on my SAM/WAR depends on that and my access to a good deal of damage reduction gear (Arhats, etc) that DRG doesn't have, so both factors put together it does make sense.

I would argue that at best it should be scrape-by manageable for most high-end PTs, but really the healing breath alternative is more favorable for most situations and styles of play anyway.