Stage 5 - Completed Relic Weapons List

[RKenshin]

Thinking more about Bravura WAR math, and it seems really awesome and underrated. Not to repeat stuff from my last post again, but yeah.

Assuming perfect gear, you're looking at +85 accuracy (on top of 276, including DEX from gear conversions) before any buffs. This is easily enough to hit (if not come within a few percent of) the accuracy cap anywhere... Never mind Aggressor. Combine this with 25% haste in gear (for a potential total of about 70%), 22% chance to double attack, Berserk up for about 75% of the time for almost constantly capped attack, 5 hits to 100 TP after a WS, defense/evasion down procs, etcetc.

[Callisto]

Thinking more about Bravura WAR math, and it seems really awesome and underrated. Not to repeat stuff from my last post again, but yeah.

Assuming perfect gear, you're looking at +85 accuracy (on top of 276, including DEX from gear conversions) before any buffs. This is easily enough to hit (if not come within a few percent of) the accuracy cap anywhere... Never mind Aggressor. Combine this with 25% haste in gear (for a potential total of about 70%), 22% chance to double attack, Berserk up for about 75% of the time for almost constantly capped attack, 5 hits to 100 TP after a WS, defense/evasion down procs, etcetc.

I'm curious as to what you'd equip for then, with Acc/Atk capping so easily. Just STR out the ass? Maybe a DEX crit build? Also, how does MT compare with SC/RR using it, aren't most relic WS' in themselves not as good as using the previous stronger WS' w/ the relic weapon?

Sorry for the noobage, my LS doesn't have any relic holders yet and I actually have yet to party with one, Ramuh's Bravura holder is also a JP.

[ninjafox]

Should probably make another thread for all this, don't wanna derail this thread anymore than it has been

[Callisto]

Erm sorry, I'm bad about that, someone can mop up my posts if they want, not really an important question I just kinda ask them as they pop in my head.

[RKenshin]

Thinking more about Bravura WAR math, and it seems really awesome and underrated. Not to repeat stuff from my last post again, but yeah.

Assuming perfect gear, you're looking at +85 accuracy (on top of 276, including DEX from gear conversions) before any buffs. This is easily enough to hit (if not come within a few percent of) the accuracy cap anywhere... Never mind Aggressor. Combine this with 25% haste in gear (for a potential total of about 70%), 22% chance to double attack, Berserk up for about 75% of the time for almost constantly capped attack, 5 hits to 100 TP after a WS, defense/evasion down procs, etcetc.

I'm curious as to what you'd equip for then, with Acc/Atk capping so easily. Just STR out the ass? Maybe a DEX crit build? Also, how does MT compare with SC/RR using it, aren't most relic WS' in themselves not as good as using the previous stronger WS' w/ the relic weapon?

Sorry for the noobage, my LS doesn't have any relic holders yet and I actually have yet to party with one, Ramuh's Bravura holder is also a JP.

The TP gear I'm referring to would look like this:

Main: Bravura
Sub: Pole Strap
Ammo: Fire Bomblet
Head: Walahra Turban
Neck: Fortitude Torque
Body: Adaman Hauberk
Hands: Dusk+1
Ring1: Rajas
Ring2: Blitz
Back: Foragers
Waist: Speed
Legs: Byakko's
Feet: Unicorn+1

Comes out to 25% haste, +85 acc (including merits, DEX conversion), and eating Arrabiato (sp?) gives you a 6-hit build.

I'm not too certain of the exact numbers with how MT compares to RR, but I think that it's about a 100-200 damage difference in favor of RR as far as the average goes. I think MT will at best average like 1k, while RR is more like 1-1.3k ish.

Should probably make another thread for all this, don't wanna derail this thread anymore than it has been

Eh, there's always been a lot of discussion on different relics and effective use of them in this thread. Separating relic discussion and relic achievement likely wouldn't change that just because people will always critique a posted relic's gear/setup/use of that relic, since this is BG after all. It'd have to be rather tightly moderated to work out.

This thread has always had both though so it's nothing new. If it didn't have both it wouldn't be a quarter as long as it is now. I've only obtained one relic yet like 1/14th of my total posts have been in this thread.

[Clave]

What i've wondered and never really gotten a Straight answer is if Full Break and metatron torment would stack thus giving a 25% Deffense down in addition to Angon and Dia which also stack increasing the Deffense down by a Huge margin. Is there a way to test this?

I'm sorry I saw this so late, but I've always wondered if the def down effect from MT would stack with things like angon and/or acid bolts, if so it would be an even bigger asset to HNM fights than an apoc.

def down doesnt stack afaik (ie acid bolts+angon) highest takes priority, not sure about breaks+MT but i cant see it being any different.

This confuses me somewhat. I've always thought relic weapons have two added effects: the self-buff effect (-damage, regen, +crit, etc etc) that is triggered by using relic WS and lasts based on the TP you used the WS at and the debuff effect (atk down, eva down, poison, para, etc) that fires off randomly on normal hits but NOT on WS, similar to other "Additional effect:" weapons.
Seeing Bravura / Kikoku randomly trigger the En-Para and EVA down animation on normal hits backs that up as well.

On the other hand I keep seeing people who imply that the additional effect is triggered (i.e. Bravura's evasion down) upon using relic WS .... so which is it?

All relic weapons have an effect triggered from normal hits.

Their weapon skills all have a self-buff with duration depending on TP.

However, some of the WSs also have another effect in addition to that. Metatron Torment has a Defense Down effect on the enemy in addition its WS buff(-damage taken), Randgrith has an Evasion Down effect on the enemy in addition to its WS buff(Acc+), Catastrophe has a Drain effect in addition to its buff effect(+Haste). However, other WSs only have their buff effect. Tachi: Kaiten only has its Store TP+7 buff, no additional effect on WS. Mercy Stroke only has +CritRate.

[ninjafox]

I'm still a ways off from Bravura, but I can't wait for it. I'm no good with the numbers so I'll just have R3 there to post stuff about it

[Izzy]

RKenshin, could you get a Mjollnir so you could do all the awesome testing for me Q__Q?

I'll send you 20 bucks!

[ninjafox]

Izzy do you solo a lot more stuff now? Or just melee with the rest of melee in fights?

[Max™]

Would Askar body be enough to keep 6 hit with Bravura?

No interest in doing the HNM scene, honestly, but I've toyed with the Bravura idea periodically.

Also: Which Earring does Lhexh use? Brutal/???

Is the 1.1-1.3k Raging Rush average in Skoffins at North camp, cause with that gear it sounds a little low for Birds/South or whatnot.

[RKenshin]

RKenshin, could you get a Mjollnir so you could do all the awesome testing for me Q__Q?

I'll send you 20 bucks!

$20!? I have like $100 to my name in RL at the moment, I'm broke as shit.

It's a deal, Mjollnir it is.

edit

Would Askar body be enough to keep 6 hit with Bravura?

No interest in doing the HNM scene, honestly, but I've toyed with the Bravura idea periodically.

Also: Which Earring does Lhexh use? Brutal/???

Is the 1.1-1.3k Raging Rush average in Skoffins at North camp, cause with that gear it sounds a little low for Birds/South or whatnot.

Yes, you could either use Askar body and not have to use Store TP food (Carb or Arrabatiwhatever), or use Adaman Hauberk and eat store TP food. Personally I think Adaman Hauberk and the ArraIHATEISPELLINGTHIS crap is best.

Lhexh uses Brutal/Assault. And honestly I don't remember the exact averages but I'm pretty sure a 1.1-1.3k RR average is right. This is the south camp in Mamool, but we were killing over 180 mobs/hour so... We were clearing all of the mobs in the south and nearly all of them in the north on a regular basis. Meaning we were in fact fighting mostly Mamool and Skoffins, and this average should be about right.

But, anyway, going out for a bit! Be back later.

[Xanthe]

Would Askar body be enough to keep 6 hit with Bravura?

No interest in doing the HNM scene, honestly, but I've toyed with the Bravura idea periodically.

Also: Which Earring does Lhexh use? Brutal/???

Is the 1.1-1.3k Raging Rush average in Skoffins at North camp, cause with that gear it sounds a little low for Birds/South or whatnot.

Arrabiato and Askar Korazin both give Store TP +5, so yes it should be enough.

[Izzy]

RKenshin, could you get a Mjollnir so you could do all the awesome testing for me Q__Q?

I'll send you 20 bucks!

$20!? I have like $100 to my name in RL at the moment, I'm broke as shit.

It's a deal, Mjollnir it is.

yessssssssssssssssssssssss

I just melee with the rest of the Melee now. Should I be disappointed or happy with an 85%~ accuracy rate at Mamool Ja Staging Point?

[Darkwill]

yessssssssssssssssssssssss

I just melee with the rest of the Melee now. Should I be disappointed or happy with an 85%~ accuracy rate at Mamool Ja Staging Point?

85% pre or after WS ?

[Max™]

85% with a KRAKEN CLUB isn't as bad as it sounds, you're swinging that thing retardedly often remember.

Thanks for that, wasn't sure if Arra was +5 or +6, but yeah, I'd love an Adaberk, oh I know!

I'll migrate over there and you can hook a taru up?

[Darkwill]

85% with a KRAKEN CLUB isn't as bad as it sounds, you're swinging that thing retardedly often remember.

Thanks for that, wasn't sure if Arra was +5 or +6, but yeah, I'd love an Adaberk, oh I know!

I'll migrate over there and you can hook a taru up?

We don't camp kings so Odin is our only source of Abj. Might be awhile till we see an E.Body lol

[Izzy]

yessssssssssssssssssssssss

I just melee with the rest of the Melee now. Should I be disappointed or happy with an 85%~ accuracy rate at Mamool Ja Staging Point?

85% pre or after WS ?

After. I think it's not higher because of the Puk flash. Missing 24 times in a row probley destroys the accuracy percentage haha.

I STILL haven't gotten to do a birds camp with it. Problem is, I'm kinda amateur at going mondo fast paced. So, if I go with our decked out DRK and SAM, they're auto targeting the mob before I can get engaged on it. I'd have to go with an averageish party to birds for awhile until I can get used to the super fast pace.

[Max™]

/autotarget on
Config: whichever one it is that makes you lock on when engaging a new target can help you get used to this next thing.

Watch where the Drk and Sam stand, if you look you'll notice they almost always are standing on the same side of the mob, and they will generally pick a side rapidly upon engaging a mob.

If you look around you'll see that they're almost always facing the next mob, so when this one dies, they're already running over/hitting the next one. Just try to slide over and make sure you're facing the same way as the two of them/so the next mob is on the other side of the one you're fighting and you'll really quickly get the hang of it. Melees learn this really fast usually, because putting away/pulling out your weapons suuuuuuuucks between mobs, autoengage/attack is a free ultra-low delay attack round basically.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Watch where the Drk and Sam stand, if you look you'll notice they almost always are standing on the same side of the mob, and they will generally pick a side rapidly upon engaging a mob.

Please tell me where to find these fabled players, the ones I merit with go AFK after each fight.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

People will always differ on opinions of this. At this stage I think it's silly to try to say which is the single best regardless of your position, as we're not in 2005 anymore where people think the only one that's even worthwhile is Horn and maybe Aegis, and melee relics feel they have to justify themselves. Since then we've changed and learned a lot, and learned that many of the relics are good in various different ways. At this point anything else really isn't important.

And, I'm likely upgrading an Apoc in the near future, but that's not changing anything about how I feel about this. Despite seeing the best DRK I know use one to what I believe to be its max potential (if not incredibly close) over the last 6-8 months.

Why am I not surprised. You keep stating over and over again that you think so and so is equaled and that so and so is not any better than other, but contradict yourself by continuing remind us how YOUR pimped out SAM regularly outparses two other MAXIMALLY PIMPED OUT Brav and Apoc. Which is essentially saying, "In the optimum situation with the best possible gear available, SAM with Amano is top tier, with the other two falling behind." If that's the case, cool; after all, it's simply game mechanic. But, please, spare me the the B.S. Just come out and say it already: you think Amano is the greatest shit ever. Stop beating around the bush with your math and numbers and almost foaming at the mouth anytime anyone has a different opinion about relics that isn't AMANOZON IS TEH GREAATEZT!