Stage 5 - Completed Relic Weapons List

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

I think someone said before that it has the highest DPS other than relic. Still seems dumb though. I would think the crits from fudo or senj would out parse it.

[Falaras]

I don't think you can. I know I could start a Caliburn if I wanted, but a player I know could switch after he was on level 2-3 GS.

EDIT: Ill actually go try to activate a third relic tonight 8D

Espresso of Pandemonium has Kikoku and Yoshimitsu

don't play anymore, no SS

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/8...6231951op6.png

[Zale_Shiva]

Xinith - Great Axe
Shiva Server - Zenmetsu Linkshell

Our 4th relic^^ and 2 more almost done

(will post pic shortly)

[Chips]

In regards to Espresso... I realize that other Katanas offer other things than just base damage, but Yoshimitsu has 4 more damage than any other useful Katana. I would think that that big of a boost would overcome +6%crit?

[Xavier]

In regards to Espresso... I realize that other Katanas offer other things than just base damage, but Yoshimitsu has 4 more damage than any other useful Katana. I would think that that big of a boost would overcome +6%crit?

Not in the offhand, I don't think anyway.

[rezn0r]

Whats the point then of stage 4 katana other than attention whoring? Or is that the only point? Dual wielding Stage 5/4 can't possibly be that great?

christ it's just awesome ok?, just like dropping a Spharai or promising to beat AV but not doing it. stop being selfish. i'm not epoxy i promise, please don't ban me.

[Awoir]

In regards to Espresso... I realize that other Katanas offer other things than just base damage, but Yoshimitsu has 4 more damage than any other useful Katana. I would think that that big of a boost would overcome +6%crit?

Not in the offhand, I don't think anyway.

It definately wouldn't, especially with a 227 delay when you could a lower delay katana there and get more Kikoku (Chance of 3x proc) swings in

[Wizerd]

In regards to Espresso... I realize that other Katanas offer other things than just base damage, but Yoshimitsu has 4 more damage than any other useful Katana. I would think that that big of a boost would overcome +6%crit?

Not in the offhand, I don't think anyway.

It definately wouldn't, especially with a 227 delay when you could a lower delay katana there and get more Kikoku (Chance of 3x proc) swings in

Let's just not use *any* offhand weapon then, amirite? Taking off 26 delay for a low damage weapon like Unji or Unsho is just stupid, when the difference is 9 damage.

[Awoir]

In regards to Espresso... I realize that other Katanas offer other things than just base damage, but Yoshimitsu has 4 more damage than any other useful Katana. I would think that that big of a boost would overcome +6%crit?

Not in the offhand, I don't think anyway.

It definately wouldn't, especially with a 227 delay when you could a lower delay katana there and get more Kikoku (Chance of 3x proc) swings in

Let's just not use *any* offhand weapon then, amirite? Taking off 26 delay for a low damage weapon like Unji or Unsho is just stupid, when the difference is 9 damage.

Except that after DW5(?) the delay on an Unji or Unsho is even lower, and the base damage rating of 9 points won't be noticed in a merit point setting. (On HNMs Senj would be best offhand due to the crit boost IMO)

[Appie]

In regards to Espresso... I realize that other Katanas offer other things than just base damage, but Yoshimitsu has 4 more damage than any other useful Katana. I would think that that big of a boost would overcome +6%crit?

Maybe... Spharai sorta has the same with 5 dmg over Destroyers and Spharai still beats them (by a small margin but still).

[Wizerd]

In regards to Espresso... I realize that other Katanas offer other things than just base damage, but Yoshimitsu has 4 more damage than any other useful Katana. I would think that that big of a boost would overcome +6%crit?

Not in the offhand, I don't think anyway.

It definately wouldn't, especially with a 227 delay when you could a lower delay katana there and get more Kikoku (Chance of 3x proc) swings in

Let's just not use *any* offhand weapon then, amirite? Taking off 26 delay for a low damage weapon like Unji or Unsho is just stupid, when the difference is 9 damage.

Except that after DW5(?) the delay on an Unji or Unsho is even lower, and the base damage rating of 9 points won't be noticed in a merit point setting. (On HNMs Senj would be best offhand due to the crit boost IMO)

Yes, the delay of Unji or Unsho is even lower, but so is the delay of Senj, and the difference becomes even smaller because DW is a percent (am I wrong?). So, for example, if it's 20% (I don't know for sure), the difference between Unji and Senj becomes 20.8 instead of 26, giving Senj even more reason to be used.

[Awoir]

Kikoku(210)/Karasuageha(190) = 400 * 0.8(Not sure exact figure) = 320

Kikoku(210)/Yoshimitsu(227) = 437 * 0.8 = 349.6

Still almost 30 delay difference, which is half a second. If the first setup adds one more hit in the parse it will win, and no, I don't mean add another round.

[Xavier]

In regards to Espresso... I realize that other Katanas offer other things than just base damage, but Yoshimitsu has 4 more damage than any other useful Katana. I would think that that big of a boost would overcome +6%crit?

Maybe... Spharai sorta has the same with 5 dmg over Destroyers and Spharai still beats them (by a small margin but still).

Well the big difference there, to me anyway, is that Spharai will have the 2-3x dmg crit modifier, while a lvl 4 katana wouldn't, widening the gap between a crit h2h weapon and the relic.

[Wizerd]

Kikoku(210)/Karasuageha(190) = 400 * 0.8(Not sure exact figure) = 320

Kikoku(210)/Yoshimitsu(227) = 437 * 0.8 = 349.6

Still almost 30 delay difference, which is half a second. If the first setup adds one more hit in the parse it will win, and no, I don't mean add another round.

Eh I was more arguing against Unji/Unsho because I disagree with NINs who use them (especially in both hands). *shrug*

[Awoir]

While I agree that U/U isn't the best combo (If I level'd NIN I'd use Senj/Unji), either is probably a better offhand for Kikoku than Senj/Fudo(lol)/Yoshimitsu because of the lower delay while a decent damage rating is intact.

[Suiram]

In regards to Espresso... I realize that other Katanas offer other things than just base damage, but Yoshimitsu has 4 more damage than any other useful Katana. I would think that that big of a boost would overcome +6%crit?

Maybe... Spharai sorta has the same with 5 dmg over Destroyers and Spharai still beats them (by a small margin but still).

Well the big difference there, to me anyway, is that Spharai will have the 2-3x dmg crit modifier, while a lvl 4 katana wouldn't, widening the gap between a crit h2h weapon and the relic.

I thought sphairai 2-3x proc could only occur on the "main hand"? (Or am I misunderstanding your remark and this fact is irrelevant?)

[Wizerd]

While I agree that U/U isn't the best combo (If I level'd NIN I'd use Senj/Unji), either is probably a better offhand for Kikoku than Senj/Fudo(lol)/Yoshimitsu because of the lower delay while a decent damage rating is intact.

But 33 isn't a decent damage rating on NIN. I don't just disagree with U/U, I disagree with Anything/U, as I've tried it and found my parser results to be much lower. Like, significantly lower, and with full 25% haste gear.

Edit: but alas, this is a dead horse lol.

Edit2:

I thought sphairai 2-3x proc could only occur on the "main hand"? (Or am I misunderstanding your remark and this fact is irrelevant?)

That seems odd, since with MNK weapons, both hits are "main hand".. o.O

[Xavier]

In regards to Espresso... I realize that other Katanas offer other things than just base damage, but Yoshimitsu has 4 more damage than any other useful Katana. I would think that that big of a boost would overcome +6%crit?

Maybe... Spharai sorta has the same with 5 dmg over Destroyers and Spharai still beats them (by a small margin but still).

Well the big difference there, to me anyway, is that Spharai will have the 2-3x dmg crit modifier, while a lvl 4 katana wouldn't, widening the gap between a crit h2h weapon and the relic.

I thought sphairai 2-3x proc could only occur on the "main hand"? (Or am I misunderstanding your remark and this fact is irrelevant?)

Its irrelevent to me because a mnk can't choose to use a different weapon on each fist.

[divisortheory]

In regards to Espresso... I realize that other Katanas offer other things than just base damage, but Yoshimitsu has 4 more damage than any other useful Katana. I would think that that big of a boost would overcome +6%crit?

Maybe... Spharai sorta has the same with 5 dmg over Destroyers and Spharai still beats them (by a small margin but still).

Well the big difference there, to me anyway, is that Spharai will have the 2-3x dmg crit modifier, while a lvl 4 katana wouldn't, widening the gap between a crit h2h weapon and the relic.

The 10% additional to Counter will probably increase your parse by an equal amount as the 3x damage proc if you're /WAR. An additional 10% of the time you get an additional 100% damage, vs. an additional 5% of the time you get an additional 200% damage.

[Appie]

Edit2:

I thought sphairai 2-3x proc could only occur on the "main hand"? (Or am I misunderstanding your remark and this fact is irrelevant?)

That seems odd, since with MNK weapons, both hits are "main hand".. o.O

Yeah, can't proc on your offhand, Aurik tested it iirc. So it's basically a Lv5 relic with lv4 in your offhand. Just like a lv5 katana and lv4 in offhand, which is why I don't really see the big difference Xavier claims there is when comparing Spharai to lv5/lv4 katana setup.