Dual Wield Nerf? Enlighten me plz

[Miruka]

There isn't a DoT increase from the lower delay. The Damage/Delay ratio for both of the 'U's is lower than for Fudo or unlocked Seiji.

As much as you may have paid for them U/U is no longer a good way to go. The prices just havn't caught up to it yet.

Palm -----> Face

[Vail]

There isn't a DoT increase from the lower delay. The Damage/Delay ratio for both of the 'U's is lower than for Fudo or unlocked Seiji.

As much as you may have paid for them U/U is no longer a good way to go. The prices just havn't caught up to it yet.

the accually dmgx and delayxx being put into a damage/time setup doesn't always perfectly the damage dealt over time.

the comparisons of one handed vs 2 handed weapons should clearly show you that alone (even discounting dual-wield/haste/martial-arts)

Senji/Unji is a great combo, you might see the -7 damage on one hand only being made up by 20~ delay but that 20 delay also allows your much stronger (senji) swing more often while also putting up only slightly weaker hits then a fudo on it's own

[RKenshin]

There isn't a DoT increase from the lower delay. The Damage/Delay ratio for both of the 'U's is lower than for Fudo or unlocked Seiji.

As much as you may have paid for them U/U is no longer a good way to go. The prices just havn't caught up to it yet.

Just curious, would http://ffxi.somepage.com/ happen to be your source of information on what weapons have the best 'damage to delay' ratio?

Man, who would've known Martial Axe has better DoT than Juggernaut.

[archibaldcrane]

Damage/delay ratios clearly only are in regards to WDMG and WDelay, not other things like crit+ or attack+. Using them blindly is stupid, but they're still helpful.

[BerenTebogo]

There isn't a DoT increase from the lower delay. The Damage/Delay ratio for both of the 'U's is lower than for Fudo or unlocked Seiji.

As much as you may have paid for them U/U is no longer a good way to go. The prices just havn't caught up to it yet.

the accually dmgx and delayxx being put into a damage/time setup doesn't always perfectly the damage dealt over time.

the comparisons of one handed vs 2 handed weapons should clearly show you that alone (even discounting dual-wield/haste/martial-arts)

Senji/Unji is a great combo, you might see the -7 damage on one hand only being made up by 20~ delay but that 20 delay also allows your much stronger (senji) swing more often while also putting up only slightly weaker hits then a fudo on it's own

Senj / Unji is made of win for XP pt.

Honestly I've tried every combo of katanas short of stage 4 / 5 relics, NOTHING on a well equipped NIN will beat Senj / Unji

You can gear around U2 and come pretty damn close, but Senj / Unji still wins it for me.

Been running tests since about my 30th merit approx, every merit I've ever acquired has been through NIN, approaching #200 I still stand by this setup.

[RKenshin]

Damage/delay ratios clearly only are in regards to WDMG and WDelay, not other things like crit+ or attack+. Using them blindly is stupid, but they're still helpful.

Honestly IMO damage/delay ratios are absolutely horrid, and shouldn't be referenced to as evidence of a weapon's performance, ever.

There's an obvious difference in FF calculations that those ratios don't consider, making all of them ratios worthless... A 50 base damage weapon does not hit twice as hard as a 25 base damage weapon, a 100 base damage weapon does not hit twice as hard as a 50 base damage weapon, etc. Instead, a 100 base damage weapon will hit for much less than twice the damage of a 50 base damage weapon.

Single handed weapons are way overpowered because of this (as noticed like two years ago)... Otherwise, according to the infamous damage/delay ratios, the highest DoT in the game would come from using 2h weapons with no competition from any 1h weapons (whether dual wielded or not), other than ones that attack multiple times.

[Scorp]

Sorry for a mild sidetrack but I was under the impression breeze gorget for jin was "fun" but p charm + str/dex elsewhere gave better numbers?

Since I can't merit katana I still keep p charm for ws to balance out throwing on str/rajas rings.

[aurik]

Sorry for a mild sidetrack but I was under the impression breeze gorget for jin was "fun" but p charm + str/dex elsewhere gave better numbers?

Since I can't merit katana I still keep p charm for ws to balance out throwing on str/rajas rings.

Gorget > all for WS.

[RKenshin]

Editted, Aurik beat me to it. D:

But yeah, sea gorget > all for WS.

[BerenTebogo]

Sorry for a mild sidetrack but I was under the impression breeze gorget for jin was "fun" but p charm + str/dex elsewhere gave better numbers?

Since I can't merit katana I still keep p charm for ws to balance out throwing on str/rajas rings.

Gorget > all for WS.

I'm still in the process of testing hope torque / breeze gorget

The numbers are VERY close, and depending on the mob both are great, but the numbers are close enough that I stick with my original love: Breeze Gorget.

But to be honest, if I lagged during gear swap macro and breeze didnt go through, I don't think I'd notice, like I would if say D head didnt go and I WSed in turban.

[Scorp]

Back to organ farming I go

[RKenshin]

The difference between no neck piece, gorget, and an alternative is going to be really small either way. I don't think it could be accurately parsed outside of a really really long test that includes just about all the possible variables, etc, since WS damage, mob level, hitrate, critrate, etc, tend to all be very inconsistant.

There's really not that many pieces of equipment that enhance your performance so much that you'll parse noticeably better with it than any alternatives in either case.

[BerenTebogo]

The difference between no neck piece, gorget, and an alternative is going to be really small either way. I don't think it could be accurately parsed outside of a really really long test that includes just about all the possible variables, etc, since WS damage, mob level, hitrate, critrate, etc, tend to all be very inconsistant.

There's really not that many pieces of equipment that enhance your performance so much that you'll parse noticeably better with it than any alternatives in either case.

I agree 100%

For example, sometimes on Ja Lurker with gorget I'll land some wicked sexy 6tp Jins, other times I'll land a 12-13 under the exact same situations.

And on the same mob using Hope Torque I'll have the exact same situation.

I've parsed 10's of hours of XP with both neck pieces and marginal would be the best word to describe the difference in them. The one thing I will say however, despite any testing I may do in the future, if I use meat I do not feel safe using B Gorget, I will only use Torque for WS if I have pie on.

Silly and superstitious in a way? Yea. But I'm not busting some 400 jins with meat on fucking puks or imps. No way.

[RKenshin]

I've never felt comfortable using meat on NIN. D:

Then again, I don't have Katana merits... Although pretty sure I'd be in the same boat either way.

[BerenTebogo]

I've never felt comfortable using meat on NIN. D:

Then again, I don't have Katana merits... Although pretty sure I'd be in the same boat either way.

It took me a long time to warm up to it, I use Hpie and a heavy ACC build when I do decide to use meat.

I have 8 KT merits + 7 skill from torque, as well as what is in my opinion an average ACC build for a meat WAR for TP.

For my WSs though its pretty much all the merits.

C. Mire is a good place to break your meat cherry, get some friends and LS mates who wont laugh at you while you find out what ACC # is right for you, and from then on just use your head.

3 PT in B thickets = pulling more NIN mamool + Skoffins which = hey, maybe I should just use sole sushi

[Krandor]

NINs A- skill and no accuracy enhancing traits limits what I'm willing to use meat on (I have capped katana merits as well but no Hope Torque).

Mire is no question, those mobs have the evasion of a Ronfaure bunny, but past that I typically will only use meat on Trolls and on Decoes, the rest of the popular xp camps I'm typically not going to touch the stuff. If I was in a situation where I wouldn't have to be tanking, I could probably take off some of the haste gear I wear and go for accuracy, but 90% when I xp with LS mates I'm usually the only NIN, and they expect me to tank, so no haste gear means I'm gonna be eating alot of MP

For SAM though, I haven't touched nor do I ever plan on touching Sushi (for xp situations at least), not having to worry about tanking frees up with alot more gear options.