Throwing a religious debate out there

[Ryko]

It's not like heterosexual sex (or even sodomy) for the sake of it is right by christian standards either >_>, Hell, banging your wife in the ass has just as much potential to send you into the fiery depths for all intents and purposes.

Also, being born some way doesn't necessarily mean you attribute it to supernatural or godly forces having a hand in it. People who do say "god made me this way" specifically are their own brand of stupid but it doesnt include everyone who believes that homosexual leanings happen by nature and not nurture.

[Carbon]

I would say that I was born a homosexual(and I'm not religous), but environmental aspects kept me from accepting it and acting upon it until I was more able to make better and concrete choices, and know just what was going on. I can always remember every time I "noticed" something when watching the Power Rangers (lolz), or back when the "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" was intriguing. I know I always loved gym class because you could see so much in those elastic shorts. haha... most guys are so clueless.

But anyway... I don't think it was environmental. I grew up in a pretty normal family. My mom was divorced when I was two, so I didn't have TOO much of a father figure, but that really shouldn't matter simply because of the LARGE majority of families that are single-parent households, too. Why else would I have these thoughts and ideas when I was so young? I never knew what sex was... just it involved a girl and a guy, because that was what I was told.

I honestly don't know what makes you gay, I just know, and now accept, that I have been all my life.

[Deigo]

Like if you eat too many bottomfeeders the ecosystem will get fucked up, or you'll mess up the population of other animals, etc? Or maybe there are some diseases you can get if you don't cook things just right?

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8...ookbookca8.jpg

[Eternus]

I watched Heroes last night...I wish we were born with a special strength. That would be much cooler.

I thought Jesus died for our sins (sins that already happened and sins that will happen) so that basically covers us unless we break one of the commandments or commit a mortal sin.

People are born with sin, that is the concept of "Original Sin" which dates back to Adam and Eve. Everyone sins and no person will ever be perfect. That is the whole reason for Jesus dying for everyone's sins. A person accepting Jesus's sacrifice and repenting (admitting they are wrong and not doing the same sin again) is how someone is forgiven of their sins technically. Repentance is the key. People are supposed to change their ways for good when they repent, not just repent then think its ok to keep on repenting for the same sins over and over. The 10 Commandments and the supposedly "mortal sins" aren't the only sins in the New and Old Testament. Homosexual sex is just one of many things that are considered sinful acts and according to the Bible none of them are better/worse than the other.

Christians can come off as judgemental by using "you" while talking about this subject. Christians are taught that they are a work in progress themselves, so they should not judge others and their sins. Humans are never going to be perfect, but they shouldn't stop working on themselves. A sin is a sin and no sin is technically greater than another sin. Technically if Jeffrey Dahmer really repented and changed before he died in prison he could be in heaven, his sins were not unforgivable for example. "Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost" is technically the only unforgivable sin as far as what the New Testament says.

Overpopulation is a problem in some countries, alot of it is because people won't move to different areas. They like to live on top of eachother and have unprotected sex like rabbits it seems. I live in a city of about 1 million people and it is pretty spread out. I wouldn't want to live in an area that is more densely populated. People wanting to live in densely populated areas makes overpopulation worse than it really is. You could say war is a way to fix overpopulation as well lol.

Too bad we can't be born with super powers, that isn't reality sadly. Instead people are born with mental and physical defects, reality is not sugar coated. It isn't that realistic for a deity to exist either, that is where faith steps in. Faith is believing in something against all odds.

[GundamCloud]

As someone who was raised southern baptist and then converted to Wicca I really don't give a damn lol. However I think like most things the church has thrown it's hissy fits over homosexuality is just something they fear cause it doesn't fit into thier perfect view of how everything should be.

[Lylie]

I believe in God, but I do not believe that God controls every single aspect of every single human being's life. That's not to say that he can't control it, he can, but he doesn't. That's how I have always looked at history.

The camerlengo in Angels & Demons (by Dan Brown) explains this to a soldier of Vatican City, with a good exemple imo:

Camerlengo: Do you have children?
Soldier: No.
Camerlengo: Imagine you had an 8 years old son, would you love him? Would you do everything in your power to prevent his pain in life?
Soldier: Of course!
Camerlengo: Would you let him skateboard?
Soldier: Yeah, I guess, but I'd tell him to be careful.
Camerlengo: You would give him basic, good advice and then let him go off and make his own mistakes?
Soldier: I wouldn't run behind him and mollyocddle him, if that's what you mean.
Camerlengo: But what if fell and skinned his knee?
Soldier: He would learn to be more careful.
Camerlengo: So although you have the power to interfere and prevent your child's pain, you would choose to show your love by letting him learn his own lessons?
Soldier: Of course, pain is part of growing up. It's how we learn.
Camerlengo: Exactly.

It also (implicitly) explains that God isn't meant to tell you what to do, but more something like, He's here to tell you the basic, good advices to start in life, and then, you have to make your own life, with your mistakes.

People who reads a book (like the Bible) and believes everything in it, word for word, are just plain stupid.

[Ligro]

in regards to the nature/nurture comment earlier, there are many cases where twins (paternal and faternal) grew up the same way, same friends, same everything, and one was gay while the other was not. This supports the "born gay" theory opposed to the thought that you are made gay by events in ones life.

[shinobi_tabi]

Are you drunk or somthing again?
1) most good christians don't judge people...i mean seriosly why try to single out 1 religion if you don't want to start flames...god you must be jewish or somthing....cause they are reaaly bad at judging ppl, or maybe roman/greek?

2) What the helll are you talking about saying you are capable of loving a man but not a dog? That makes no sense. Go stick your dick in that fags ass or that dogs ass, it is the same shit, it is where it is not suppose to be.
Looking for an excuse to go gay or somthing? olmao

And wtf religion debate then you semi-derail it by adding your gayness to it, these two topics do not have much in common.

[shinobi_tabi]

I believe in God, but I do not believe that God controls every single aspect of every single human being's life. That's not to say that he can't control it, he can, but he doesn't. That's how I have always looked at history.

would you agree if i said god is a masochist and sadist all in one?
oh and a blm/whm

[Makore]

Personally I feel that regardless of how a person is born, they will make decisions and choices based on their life circumstances and experiences as opposed to things that were "set in stone" since birth. I don't believe we're born homosexuals or straight - we grow into one or the other, perhaps changing during our lifetimes depending on what each individual person goes through.

I have always seen it this way...

If I fall in love with a man, then I will be straight and happy. If I fall in love with a woman, than I will be gay and happy. I don't care one way or the other, as one's sex has little to do with my emotional attachments; if you can see yourself standing beside someone and knowing you could spend the rest of your life with them, does it matter if they are man or woman?

I am an athiest, thus I don't believe in God myself, but I feel that everyone is deserving of their own choices, and that judging others based on theirs will only lead people down the path of needless suffering and bitterness. Narrow-minded tunnel vision from some people on the topic of homosexuals is disturbing... Then again, our world has become quite a disturbing place as of late. This isn't the least nor greatest of our problems.

[shinobi_tabi]

get it through your heads sheeeesh

gay ppl are just scared of teh puss and they cling to what they know, thier dick

[Jerseyprophet]

You are an idiot Shinobi. Let me break it down so you can understand it.

I said we're capable of loving of another person, regardless of gender as an indication that because we're able to, we may have been intended to. I don't know about you, but I'm not able to romantically feel for an animal or something like that, because I was never intended to as a human being.

I cannot make that any clearer, so if it still doesnt make sense, give it up.

Also, insinuating that I'm gay because I'm debating this overtly religious topic is laughable. You've never seen my wife.

[Amarok]

Right now where I live there are signs everywhere trying to get you to vote against gay marriage. They say stuff like "ONE MAN. ONE WOMEN.". Anyway, someone has been going around town to all the signs and spray painting a big rainbow on them. Whoever it is is such a badass.

[Unklemonkey]

Anyway, someone has been going around town to all the signs and spray painting a big rainbow on them. Whoever it is is such a badass.

LOL, whoever that is is my new hero

[Eternus]

As someone who was raised southern baptist and then converted to Wicca I really don't give a damn lol. However I think like most things the church has thrown it's hissy fits over homosexuality is just something they fear cause it doesn't fit into thier perfect view of how everything should be.

Well the church is throwing "hissy fits" over something that they say is against the word of God. If you don't believe in their definition of God then fine. It isn't the church's perfect view, it would be the judgement of their omnipotent creator that determines what is wrong and right. The Bible is greater than any church. A church is supposed to be a fellowship of believers and the many different "religions" within Christianity have been screwing that part up. They make it more than it is and add new "rules". This isn't surprising as religions are run by people and people as the Bible teaches are fuck ups.

Organized religion is fucked up imo. A church is supposed to oppose a rising trend of anything that is called a sin in the Bible. That would be called practicing what you preach. Catholic priests molesting kids is not practicing what you preach. Church leaders are people too and are also not perfect, they can only strive to be closer to perfect. It is kind of similar to how a Buddhist achieves Nirvana. I really don't care what religion people choose personally lol. People usually choose a religion that has beliefs that are convenient to their lifestyle. That is to be expected.

[shinobi_tabi]

You already know the answers so why ask?

I am an idiot and you have homosexual thoughts, we all have our down falls

People are capable of loving anything that intrigues them usually, whether it be beauty, straight lust, knowledge, strength, love for loves sake, , evil things if you are attuned to them, etc etc

You might think you were never intended to have "love" for an animal but that is bullshit because "god" intended humans to love every living thing practically...
even if it is compassionate love and not humping goats.....

Look at dogs being trained through the centuries, humans would not of bothered training them to be parts of thier families if they didn't truly care for these animals in some way.
Look at endangered species these days, people care, just not everybody, and definately only a small few are thinking of having sex with these animals.......so.........keep loving men if you want! I am not here to judge!
God will forgive you anyway if it is a sin!

[Jerseyprophet]

Was it so hard to speak to people in a nice way?

Look, I do see your point. I'm also not a christian, nor follow these beliefs - just debating them to pass time at work.

I meant romantic love, not compassion. Yes, we can love a pet or something like that - but can you love it the way you would your girl? No, it is not possible. That's what I meant. We're capable (some of us) of romantically loving a person of the same sex. NONE of us are capable of loving an animal romantically - like being WITH it. That leads me to believe that because we're capable of loving someone of the same sex - then if there is a God, he wanted that to be.

[Norelco]

This is why religious threads on a forum such as this is just asking for trouble.

The bottom line is everyone should just worry about themselves.

[Norelco]

You've never seen my wife.

Post her picture? :D

[Eternus]

Marriage is defined by having a spouse.. you can't have a spouse that isn't your mate. You can't mate with a person of the same sex because you can't have kids with them. You are basically masturbating with someone, not having kids. Marriage is becoming "one" with another person not just through the act of sex but the joining of DNA to form another person entirely. Humans are animals but we are expected by some religions to resist out animalistic tendencies and act differently. People just get married to take advantage of tax laws and healthcare benefits it seems, not to raise a family of their own. Marriages born of convenience. This goes for straight couples obviously as well, the original idea of marriage has changed over the years.

I really could care less if gay people get married or have civil unions. Doesn't matter to me in the slightest. The OP was asking about the Christian religion, the laws of a nation are a different matter entirely. Seperation of church and state means exactly that, you don't make laws based solely on what a church says.