wtf @ North Korea?

[Ishido]

The funny (well, not so much funny as ironic...) thing is, it is our fault Japan does not have a standing army right now and only has a "defense force."

You just got done defeating a militaristic nation that picked a fight with you and tried to take over half the world. Would you let them rebuild a large invasion force again? O_o

Like I mentioned as well, their santions are or have been lifted recently. Plus after WW2 be became close friends. So we have their back if anything were to happen

No, of course not. We tried to get them out of China before WW2, and those actions caused the bombing of pearl harbor. After the war we created a security agreement that still stands, and says that they are not to have the ability to wage war. It's also one of the reasons we have several military bases in Japan (some are moving to Guam soon I think...), so we can assist them. I believe Abe Shinzo is trying to change some of legislature, but I haven't heard enough in recent news to really say anything about that for sure.

[Xavier]

We have in place a military commitment to defend Japan, which Rice has already stated would be honored if North Korea attacked them.

Japan has gone ahead and stated they have no intention of developing nuclear weapons, and will rely on the commitment made after WWII.

And the #1 reason why its America's business about North Korea, we are still at war with them. It was a ceasefire that stopped the Korean War, not an actual end. We've technically been at war with North Korea for something like 50 years now.

[Ishido]

Yes I knew all of that... even if the security treaty with Japan did not exist we would still probably assist Japan because of its membership in the UN, and other factors.

And a ceasefire is more or less the end of a war, despite it not being a treaty or anything else. But it is true that we are technically not at peace with them, and of course very unconfortable with all of their recent actions, as is most of the world.

What I'm really wondering is what it will take to get a country to take action against North Korea, when that will happen, consequences etc...

[Ace-o-fire]

Send some supplies to China and South Korea and lets go wild with bombs!

[Tekki]

Send some supplies to China and South Korea and lets go wild with bombs!

airbombing refugee heavy reagions with MREs filled with peanut butter has proven useful in the past!

[Kael]

Too bad the world doesn't have the stomach to just stop sending aid and let them starve. Problem solved~

[raginbull]

The funny (well, not so much funny as ironic...) thing is, it is our fault Japan does not have a standing army right now and only has a "defense force."

You just got done defeating a militaristic nation that picked a fight with you and tried to take over half the world. Would you let them rebuild a large invasion force again? O_o

Like I mentioned as well, their santions are or have been lifted recently. Plus after WW2 be became close friends economically. So we have their back if anything were to happen

I felt that the bolded part was quite neccessary to add.

D, you are quite possibly the last person I would expect to be interested in politics like this. (mainly because of your old sig) Oh well never judge a book by its cover and all that (*'-')

[GRT]

You know, I glanced through the entire thread and only one thing struck me: everyone started to missing the whole damn point after the first page: nobody is saying democracy is a bad thing, the bad thing is that U.S. constantly uses it as an excuse to take aggressive actions when it's not necessary!

One thing most Americans need to realize is that the U.S. is a country founded on an entirely different situation than the rest of the countries in the world: it started from pure scratch by people with same ideals and values. It's NOT the same situation in any other place on earth. Other countries such as Iraq and North Korea are already a painting before the idea of democracy even took its first breath, instead of a fresh white canvas like North America (at least after the natives were "taken care of") so it takes time for the people to shift from a kind of systems they were used to a new and better one.

And guess what, they are entirely capable of doing it on their own.

Look at China, remember what your fathers and grandfathers were calling them? And maybe they still do? That's right, fuckin commies! But if you care to take a closer look at China today and judge for yourself, you'd see that China has became a much better and "freer" place than 30 or 40 years ago, and they did it by themselves without having us mucho Americans to go and "liberate" them (we tried though, oh did we try, and poor Koreans... I'll get to that later). I agree entirely that China's government still needs work (just like ours) but it did NOT became the totalitorian society we feared it would become in the 60s. Oh and by the way, China also has by far the strongest growing economy in the world AND in the history of the world. Now look at Vietnam, again, take a closer look at them before you judge, because it is indeed getting better, too, and ironically, much similar to the shapes of China in the 70s and 80s--why slower than them? Well, nothing much, just that little war those big buff Yankees started called the Vietnam War that set them back at least 20 years in morale and economy.

And then you ask, why do so many people in the world hate us Americans? Remember that jackass in high school a lot of people hated (and some loved or appeared to love) who accused of those "haters" as being jealous of his/her "good looks and wealth"? While most of those people really just hate him/her because he/she used that good look and wealth as an excuse to be jerks?

Above are facts, below are my personal thinking on things:

Why really does the U.S. want to be the world police? One reason and one cause:

Reason: it's one way to keep the "superpower" image for the U.S. so that it may benefit economically from it (and yes, it benefits a LOT)

Cause: the Cold War

the reason would take too much explaining than i care to, but i imagine anyone who's taken more than a basic economics course can figure it out on their own, the cause is easier, so let me get on that

U.S. does not want another Cold War, in fact, we are scared shitless to even a hint of thought at that. there are many reasons China is not in a Cold War with us: huge economic ties for one, and we are holding China's balls over that Taiwan thing. the Soviet Union, on the other hand, did not need to do business with the U.S. at all for almost 40 years, and it's the same situation with Iraq and North Korea, because there are other countries who were willing to do business with them for geographical or political reasons (huge land/resources in Soviete Union, oil in Iraq and NK's political ties with China, again I'll get on that NK/China thing later), so the U.S. has nothing solid to put them in checks, and the last thing we'd want is for them to be able to defend themselves properly from us if it shall ever benefit us to have an upper hand in some sort of business transaction. besides, Iraq and NK are just such tiny pieces of pies to bite on, a military aggression would chill us out much faster than anything else (what, did you really think U.S. didn't know that Iraq had no nukes?)

On the China/NK thing, China was piss poor for 15 years after WWII, but guess what happened then: they developed nukes! Check Korean War's date: yep, about same time when China started to successfully conduct nuclear tests. I know you think I'm accusing the U.S. about something: their real intention of getting involved in Korea... but it doesn't need my accusations, the big general MacArthur said it himself: China is a threat! by establishing a footing near China we can nuke them easier and eliminate the threat! Of course he was fired over that statement, but not until a year after he actually said that and when U.S. started to lose to the Chinese. Poor Koreans indeed, we divided them and they weren't even our prime target. Now they looked at the history between the U.S. and China--their biggest neighbor and closest thing to an ally--and look at what happened to the Soviet Union (whose leader lost power) and Iraq (getting their ass whooped in a one sided war) and guess what they'd think? nukes, perhaps?

edit: by the way, Iraq and NK were making the exact same threat before the U.S. invaded Iraq... why did they pick Iraq? and guesses?

[yayaok]

havnt read the thread, too long

im korean, and ill say this bluntly; only 50%, probably less, of south koreans probably even truly care about north and south korea reuniting. the majority, while having pity for the citizens of north korea, seriously think that north korea and the way it's run is retarded as shit.

south korea sends 10mil USD+ worth food, supplies, etc every year because north korea's economy is lower than the damage on a pitchfork, and since reuniting the 2 nations could bring huge economical (and all around) advantages in the future, south korea sucks it up and helps them out, ALOTHOUGH no citizen truly gives a fuck. maybe the korean war veterans or kwar-era people actually care, but seriously... out of 279 students in my grade, i think 10~ said they actually cared about north korea. according to a national survey... it's not too far off.

oh, and every korean thinks north korea is an insane dibshit country for testing nukes too, s.korea and jp gonna die soon

[Plow]

Funny, a lot of us said this before we even went into Iraq.

[GRT]

havnt read the thread, too long

im korean, and ill say this bluntly; only 50%, probably less, of south koreans probably even truly care about north and south korea reuniting. the majority, while having pity for the citizens of north korea, seriously think that north korea and the way it's run is retarded as shit.

south korea sends 10mil USD+ worth food, supplies, etc every year because north korea's economy is lower than the damage on a pitchfork, and since reuniting the 2 nations could bring huge economical (and all around) advantages in the future, south korea sucks it up and helps them out, ALOTHOUGH no citizen truly gives a fuck. maybe the korean war veterans or kwar-era people actually care, but seriously... out of 279 students in my grade, i think 10~ said they actually cared about north korea. according to a national survey... it's not too far off.

oh, and every korean thinks north korea is an insane dibshit country for testing nukes too, s.korea and jp gonna die soon

dude, i really don't blame you for not reading my post or anything else in this thread, but just for your info, nobody has said anything about reuniting NK and SK

[Plow]

because north korea's economy is lower than the damage on a pitchfork

[yayaok]

dude, i really don't blame you for not reading my post or anything else in this thread, but just for your info, nobody has said anything about reuniting NK and SK

oh i know, i just added that to show that south korea doesnt really give a crap about north korea
seems that alot of foreign people still dont know that south/north = different

[Daahan]

China was piss poor for 15 years after WWII, but guess what happened then: they developed nukes! Check Korean War's date: yep, about same time when China started to successfully conduct nuclear tests. I know you think I'm accusing the U.S. about something: their real intention of getting involved in Korea... but it doesn't need my accusations, the big general MacArthur said it himself: China is a threat! by establishing a footing near China we can nuke them easier and eliminate the threat!

The Korean War started because N. Korea invaded S. Korea. America was the protectorate of S. Korea because they established the Democratic government under Syngman Rhee there. They had a sworn duty to aid S. Korea if they were attacked. The Korean wars is one of the very few modern wars that you can easily argue that America didn't start.

MacArthur was very rash and always quick to jump the gun, which is why he's eventually relieved from his position.

[perdition]

Ok so.. we bust into Iraq saying they have WMD knowing that N.korea was a greater threat. Two or so years later... we're still in iraq, no WMD"s but N.korea has detonated a WMD... hmm... bush administration fails.

[Solefald]

Korea is unlikely to be reunified anytime soon because the status quo is advantageous to almost all the parties involved.

-The US gets a military presence on the East Asian mainland. This gives it leverage against China. If Korea were to reunite, the US-South Korean military alliance would likely evaporate.
-South Korea also wins because of the American alliance. The situation also helps to keep American diplomatic interest in their country.
-If the Koreas were to reunite (presumably under South Korean rule), South Korea would be saddled with an unbelievable number of poor ass North Koreans. They would also have to defend a longer border, without US help, against a much more formidable enemy: China.
-By keeping North Korea around as a semi-puppet regime, China can irritate the US and threaten US allies (South Korea, Japan) without directly acting as the belligerent. Also, in the case of Korean reunification, hundreds of thousands of North Korean refugees would likely pour across the border into China, creating an economic strain that China does not want.
-The North Korean regime simply wants to survive, and basically all it has to do to accomplish that is not start a war.

The big losers in all this are the North Korean people, who are starved and brutalized by what is probably the most Orwellian government in history.

[miokomioko]

These are the days when I'm glad I don't live in New York or Washington D.C.

Nuclear war = our biggest/important cities get toasted but the entire tiny country to blame gets toasted. It'll end quickly.

[GRT]

China was piss poor for 15 years after WWII, but guess what happened then: they developed nukes! Check Korean War's date: yep, about same time when China started to successfully conduct nuclear tests. I know you think I'm accusing the U.S. about something: their real intention of getting involved in Korea... but it doesn't need my accusations, the big general MacArthur said it himself: China is a threat! by establishing a footing near China we can nuke them easier and eliminate the threat!

The Korean War started because N. Korea invaded S. Korea. America was the protectorate of S. Korea because they established the Democratic government under Syngman Rhee there. They had a sworn duty to aid S. Korea if they were attacked. The Korean wars is one of the very few modern wars that you can easily argue that America didn't start.

MacArthur was very rash and always quick to jump the gun, which is why he's eventually relieved from his position.

yes that was the official reason of the war, but it doesn't take a conspiracy theory for people to think that things aren't that simple

by the way, america did not get to choose whether to start or not start the war, truman did... he went around congress and got the US involved through the UN, the congress never made an official declaration of war

[Daahan]

China was piss poor for 15 years after WWII, but guess what happened then: they developed nukes! Check Korean War's date: yep, about same time when China started to successfully conduct nuclear tests. I know you think I'm accusing the U.S. about something: their real intention of getting involved in Korea... but it doesn't need my accusations, the big general MacArthur said it himself: China is a threat! by establishing a footing near China we can nuke them easier and eliminate the threat!

The Korean War started because N. Korea invaded S. Korea. America was the protectorate of S. Korea because they established the Democratic government under Syngman Rhee there. They had a sworn duty to aid S. Korea if they were attacked. The Korean wars is one of the very few modern wars that you can easily argue that America didn't start.

MacArthur was very rash and always quick to jump the gun, which is why he's eventually relieved from his position.

yes that was the official reason of the war, but it doesn't take a conspiracy theory for people to think that things aren't that simple

by the way, america did not get to choose whether to start or not start the war, truman did... he went around congress and got the US involved through the UN, the congress never made an official declaration of war

There are lots of wars that the U.S. have fought that have not been declared. I think all but 5 American wars have not been declared wars.

I don't understand how you think that America could have started the Korean War though.

[miokomioko]

Just to clear something up, you don't have to officially declare a war in order to take millitary action. It seems like it's only a traditional and unnecessary formality these days.