So how do you deal with...

[chiz]

The people who bot do fuck it over for the ones who don't (that applies to ron's group in the NA alliance too chiz. Even if I gave the benefit of the doubt in someone saying that no one in ED is running anything it'd be ridiculous to say that you havent placed yourself or the others in a position to gain from it potentially)

Heh, again the proof is in the pudding I guess. We won a total of 2 Nidhogg claim during the alliance and I won one of them, not to mention we rarely pulled any Fafnir at all. In fact, continually losing pulls was the main reason Ron and Doshu made the call to MPK you guys and ultimately resulted in the end of the alliance when we pulled out of it.

I can't say for sure if Doshu, Ron or whoever else were running bots (they never said they were or openly admitted to it, at least), I can only say that if they were, they sure as hell weren't working. I was also quick to point out that I knew people in the alliance simply weren't trying as hard to win pull as TG was, and it showed in our number of claims.

[quote:8961a]On a lighter note, Fairy's first Apocalypse owner is going to be a bearded Hume. D:

With a level 31 WAR sub...[/quote:8961a]
Seems like a nice guy, kinda came outta nowhere though. Rang and Fuzy still seem to be stuck on Fragments though......but somehow Silvergun got his. o.O

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I suppose I can't argue with that one too much after the years of doing everything I can to make my drk better only to have it not even begin to compare to warriors with lesser gear, dedication, and skill, and finally giving in and going war. (And so far it's everything I ever wanted drk to be except for a strong magic damager.)

Then you sure as hell played DRK for the wrong reasons and with the wrong attitude.

[Beckwin]

aers is right :/ And if its not app its punisher. Hell, I've even heard about one of the random sky shells that show up in aery every blue moon have it.

[aurik]

Beckwin's point is wrong; he is fucking over anyone that shows up without the latest tool. What is correct is that he's not fucking over anyone that isn't already fucked over. Which you may personally be ok with, but a lot of people would still find morally offensive.

Chicken and the egg discussion, a lot of people feel not a bit of remorse costing people (who already found it fair game to flip others the bird just because they could) everything they can. I don't like it any more than you do, but failing to see where theyre coming from (even if you don't necessarily agree with it) will never lead to the mindset that will bring about some sort of beneficial change to the system that currently exists because aside from killing 80% of end-game congestion through bans it's never gonna happen that way.

Ninjas be lurking <_<

I'll just repeat what I said because nothing really has changed. If you can't win fairly, don't show up. Will you ever get ridill or adaberk with this attitude? Probably not, no, and if it really makes that much of a difference to you, seek help.

[Ryko]

Well I know for sure doshu was. Mainly because someone sent me a screenshot of doshu blasting off on PD forums saying "STOP ASKING ME ABOUT BOTS IN GAME YOU KNOW I BOT LIKE MAD BUT I WONT ADMIT TO IT CUZ I'M NOT GONNA GET BANNED SO JUST STOP" (although I likely spelled it a lot better), which I threw in moneyshot's face when he basically called us botters on KI after the second to last MPK attempt during that stint. Also the reason they likely werent working was because right after our first nidhogg 100-0 the claiming system changed and they were still used to trying to fire off argus upon pop and not setting a delay so their claims got ganked, which led to us just menu grabbing a ton of things. Also yeah the fact that we had a ton of people back then showing up helped a lot.

Fuzy being stuck on the fragment is like my only saving grace for trying to catch up on this murakumo but without a 100 craft and a ton of crap of my own to sell it's a slow process.

Beckwin's point is wrong; he is fucking over anyone that shows up without the latest tool. What is correct is that he's not fucking over anyone that isn't already fucked over. Which you may personally be ok with, but a lot of people would still find morally offensive.

Chicken and the egg discussion, a lot of people feel not a bit of remorse costing people (who already found it fair game to flip others the bird just because they could) everything they can. I don't like it any more than you do, but failing to see where theyre coming from (even if you don't necessarily agree with it) will never lead to the mindset that will bring about some sort of beneficial change to the system that currently exists because aside from killing 80% of end-game congestion through bans it's never gonna happen that way.

Ninjas be lurking <_<

I'll just repeat what I said because nothing really has changed. If you can't win fairly, don't show up. Will you ever get ridill or adaberk with this attitude? Probably not, no, and if it really makes that much of a difference to you, seek help.

THREE YEARS AURIK, DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY KBODIES I HAVENT GOTTEN?

[Beckwin]

Aurik: if you don't show up, why do you even give a fuck? Don't pull the "omg ur screwing over others" BS, because you've made it apparent you really don't give half a shit about others. Token city AF while you drag people through city runs for currency doesn't really make you a caring, considerate, worthwhile friend.

Not like random dudes claiming affects how much fun you're having personally, right?

[Plow]

I suppose I can't argue with that one too much after the years of doing everything I can to make my drk better only to have it not even begin to compare to warriors with lesser gear, dedication, and skill, and finally giving in and going war. (And so far it's everything I ever wanted drk to be except for a strong magic damager.)

Then you sure as hell played DRK for the wrong reasons and with the wrong attitude.

Excuse me?

I dunno about you, but I wanted my drk to be a badass DD. I'd hoped for some pretty competent backup tanking action too. As well as some magic damage.

What part of dark knight am I missing? Being emo?

[Ryko]

I suppose I can't argue with that one too much after the years of doing everything I can to make my drk better only to have it not even begin to compare to warriors with lesser gear, dedication, and skill, and finally giving in and going war. (And so far it's everything I ever wanted drk to be except for a strong magic damager.)

Then you sure as hell played DRK for the wrong reasons and with the wrong attitude.

Not being able to get an adaberk at the time was the reason I capped RNG and WAR after DRK too. I fulfilled my RNG's "potential" at the time the day after I hit 75 whereas I never ever ever ever ever thought I'd be sporting the shit on my DRK that I do now. Once WAR hit 75 (after RNG did) I wanted to completely pimp it out with a ridill too but the motivation of being able to live up to what you know the job is capable of is very common.

[Plow]

Aurik: if you don't show up, why do you even give a fuck? Don't pull the "omg ur screwing over others" BS, because you've made it apparent you really don't give half a shit about others. Token city AF while you drag people through city runs for currency doesn't really make you a caring, considerate, worthwhile friend.

Not like random dudes claiming affects how much fun you're having personally, right?

did you miss the part where you already tried that argument and they stated that aurik didn't drag people through cities for coinage...

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I suppose I can't argue with that one too much after the years of doing everything I can to make my drk better only to have it not even begin to compare to warriors with lesser gear, dedication, and skill, and finally giving in and going war. (And so far it's everything I ever wanted drk to be except for a strong magic damager.)

Then you sure as hell played DRK for the wrong reasons and with the wrong attitude.

Excuse me?

I dunno about you, but I wanted my drk to be a badass DD. I'd hoped for some pretty tanking action too. As well as some magic damage.

What part of dark knight am I missing? Being emo?

Wut?

So you wanted awesome offense AND good defense AND good magic?

[chiz]

Aurik: if you don't show up, why do you even give a fuck? Don't pull the "omg ur screwing over others" BS, because you've made it apparent you really don't give half a shit about others. Token city AF while you drag people through city runs for currency doesn't really make you a caring, considerate, worthwhile friend.

Not like random dudes claiming affects how much fun you're having personally, right?

I think he's made it pretty clear in the past and in this thread that a big reason he stays out of DA is because of the bots.

As for not caring about others....if you can't stand Dynamis that's obviously going to be your opinion but accomplishing any long-term goals in Dynamis is easily as difficult as accomplishing anything on the HNM scene, on Fairy at least.

Sure we have a crapload of competition and botters, but its not like that all the time and definitely not at all 3 camps (as best evidenced by a CFH'd and raged KB a week ago and a Nidhogg that chomped on 2 shitty LS before being killed at 1% by 4 people).

The fact that he and Wafik have accomplished so much in an open run is that much more impressive, imo at least.

[Ryko]

I suppose I can't argue with that one too much after the years of doing everything I can to make my drk better only to have it not even begin to compare to warriors with lesser gear, dedication, and skill, and finally giving in and going war. (And so far it's everything I ever wanted drk to be except for a strong magic damager.)

Then you sure as hell played DRK for the wrong reasons and with the wrong attitude.

Excuse me?

I dunno about you, but I wanted my drk to be a badass DD. I'd hoped for some pretty tanking action too. As well as some magic damage.

What part of dark knight am I missing? Being emo?

Wut?

So you wanted awesome offense AND good defense AND good magic?

Berserk
Aggressor
Defender
Utsusemi

Not to mention the gear choices >_>

[Plow]

I suppose I can't argue with that one too much after the years of doing everything I can to make my drk better only to have it not even begin to compare to warriors with lesser gear, dedication, and skill, and finally giving in and going war. (And so far it's everything I ever wanted drk to be except for a strong magic damager.)

Then you sure as hell played DRK for the wrong reasons and with the wrong attitude.

Excuse me?

I dunno about you, but I wanted my drk to be a badass DD. I'd hoped for some pretty tanking action too. As well as some magic damage.

What part of dark knight am I missing? Being emo?

Wut?

So you wanted awesome offense AND good defense AND good magic?

Yeah, kinda like blu, or smn, or rdm, or nin, or...

And the simple fact is this:

Wars outdamage drk outside of extremely specific situations. (SE Kraken, basically.)

Wars out-tank drk, period.

Drk... out.. drains... oh wait drain bolts.

Seriously wtf are you trying to say?

How is it that by trying to be the best dd I possibly could, I was doing drk wrong?

[aurik]

Aurik: if you don't show up, why do you even give a fuck? Don't pull the "omg ur screwing over others" BS, because you've made it apparent you really don't give half a shit about others. Token city AF while you drag people through city runs for currency doesn't really make you a caring, considerate, worthwhile friend.

Not like random dudes claiming affects how much fun you're having personally, right?

did you miss the part where you already tried that argument and they stated that aurik didn't drag people through cities for coinage...

No, he pretty much ignored it I won monster gaiters freelot in dynamis-tavnazia on Friday, lol.

And I'm not surprised that Beckwin hates dynamis so much; he and his friends seem materialistic enough they'd never do anything interesting or fun, they'd simply spam the routes that give maximum coin return. And I agree, that could get boring. Try mixing things up for a change!

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I suppose I can't argue with that one too much after the years of doing everything I can to make my drk better only to have it not even begin to compare to warriors with lesser gear, dedication, and skill, and finally giving in and going war. (And so far it's everything I ever wanted drk to be except for a strong magic damager.)

Then you sure as hell played DRK for the wrong reasons and with the wrong attitude.

Excuse me?

I dunno about you, but I wanted my drk to be a badass DD. I'd hoped for some pretty tanking action too. As well as some magic damage.

What part of dark knight am I missing? Being emo?

Wut?

So you wanted awesome offense AND good defense AND good magic?

Berserk
Aggressor
Defender
Utsusemi

Not to mention the gear choices >_>

lolDefender and no Magic. I like being able to sleep shit. I love drain and aspir.

EDIT: Fuck it, it doesnt matter, I'm not bothering.

[Beckwin]

did you miss the part where you already tried that argument and they stated that aurik didn't drag people through cities for coinage...

Maybe I did. But I don't think aurik solo'd his attestation or fragment. Fights that no one else had anything to gain from. If they all had aurik's attitude, they could say "Fuck your animated knuckles, it doesn't drop the item I want and I don't think animated weapons are fun."

[Ryko]

lolDefender and no Magic. I like being able to sleep shit. I love drain and aspir.

Defender doesn't actually suck, and I was counting utsusemi in the magic category, its just a magic spell that enhances defensive cpaabilities.

[aers]

Having animated knuckles warp on you at 1% because a NIN forgot to mijin sucks :[

Beckwin doesn't rly do dynamis that much.

[aurik]

did you miss the part where you already tried that argument and they stated that aurik didn't drag people through cities for coinage...

Maybe I did. But I don't think aurik solo'd his attestation or fragment. Fights that no one else had anything to gain from. If they all had aurik's attitude, they could say "Fuck your animated knuckles, it doesn't drop the item I want and I don't think animated weapons are fun."

I'm pretty sure my dynamis shell enjoyed those fights. You'd think if they didn't, they'd stop coming lol. Or at least they would have complained when we fought the great katana 4 times for someone that isn't even a member of the shell.

With every ignorant comment like this you spew, your mindset of "progress comes at a cost, not as a benefit" becomes clearer. I'm just here telling you that you're wrong.

[Beckwin]

With every ignorant comment like this you spew, your mindset of "progress comes at a cost, not as a benefit". I'm just here telling you that you're wrong.

Says the guy spewing ill-informed comments about my friends being materialistic, assuming I never do anything for fun, and that anyone who bots is a horrible person regardless of the situation.

I'm glad you made this easy to point out.