So how do you deal with...

[Ryko]

I figured I was being pretty tame by my standards, remember when I asked the KI mods to ban demetrios for being a dickbag only for ifto to yell at me for being a potty mouth? >_>

If you want an honest answer, saying "botters suck massive donkey dick" or whatever comes up when the term bot is brought up practically over and over and over does little to add to the discussion. It's not like much of anyone is going to disagree, not even the people who stand to gain the most (or at least the most immediate) from it. Accepting the fact that it sucks, what else does going on for however long adding that you still believe that it sucks do?

[Lordwafik]

It does as much as you complaining about me about complaining about botting sucking does.

[Cat]

Where. Not that I'm surprised, just curious.

BTW, who are you?

All of Unicorn bots, now go cry somewhere else.

My ingame name is Turnc, i'm in pain. I don't think i've seen you at any ground camps, could be wrong though

[Ryko]

It does as much as you complaining about me about complaining about botting sucking does.

yeah because it's not like in the 2 posts about this there hasn't been 20+ pages where I actually added somewhat relevant and diversified responses to the people at hand aside from verbally berating them.

Like I said, it's a chicken and egg discussion. You can yell at the people who bot because they know they will gain peanuts in the situation they're currently in if they dont. You can tell them to stop botting in response to someone's original botting, but then you'd have to convince the people who led the responsive botters to do so to stop, which they're just gonna laugh at. Then you go back to yelling at botters, but instead of getting someone trying to show you the other side of the coin you'll just get a "whatever noob" and another purple mob. You don't even have to agree with their viewpoint, but it's funny to see the peanut gallery chime in to confirm that botting sucks. Thanks, we didn't know and it sure as hell wasn't even stated on the first page or anything. Even baldy's said more, and I'm not of the mindset to admit that readily in any situation.

[Lordwafik]

Uh no.

Botters marching in on this thread saying they're not ruining the gameplay of FFXI by botting, we are saying they are, they're telling us not to fight it, and give in, we're giving our viewpoint that botting sucks and we won't stand for it.

I don't really care if you agree/see my point or not, but I don't treat people who openly bot with open arms, I'll treat them with the same attitude I treat RMT'ers.

Why do you get some idea that I'm trying to convince people not to bot? I'm simply showing them there's people out there who don't approve of what they're doing (much like you posting in response to my post), and their botting "not harming anyone" is more like them not wanting to feel guilty for the crap they pulled.

But hey, go fight over a ridill, I dont care. Good night.

[divisortheory]

Botters marching in on this thread saying they're not ruining the gameplay of FFXI by botting, we are saying they are, they're telling us not to fight it, and give in

Remember when that guy running for president said that when a woman is being raped she shouldn't fight it because it only makes it worse, and she should just accept it and go with the flow? good times, good times.

[Nchabazam]

I went to countless fafnir camps back when remora opened, and 95% of them were claimed by 2 of HiddenPower's (formerly of asura?) JP bot friends (nenetan/whitesnow)... they got something like 13 out of 14 nidhoggs in the fall of '05. Sitting there and seeing all those fafnirs/nids pop purple because of a bot is really lame, and until I quit a couple weeks ago I hadn't camped a fafnir in a long time.

So in a situation like the one above should I be forced to be excluded from fafnir/nidhogg camps/drops because one linkshell has a vice grip on claims? It pretty much ended up happening that way for me, and I wish it hadn't. The only solution is to join a botting LS, or bot yourself (I'd have been perfectly happy doing that if I weren't afraid of getting my account stolen).

Life is all about perspective. People can sit back and talk shit about how botting is bad while chilling in their dalmas and koenig bodies (when they never had to make a choice of claiming 0 fafnirs/nids vs cheating), and people can say that it is essential.

People who haven't experienced a complete monopolization of king claims by a few asses using bots (much worse because this was way before the delay system and JPs with sick bots won everything) really have no ground to make claims about what people should or shouldn't be doing (unless you never camped kings because of it, which I'd respect).

[Ryko]

That really wasn't what I was getting at and I wasn't implying that you were actively trying to convince them to stop either. My point was that if by somehow berating them it did convince the ones who are being honest enough to respond to you to stop, that leaves the countless others (before them) who frankly just dont give a shit.

[divisortheory]

People who haven't experienced a complete monopolization of king claims by a few asses using bots (much worse because this was way before the delay system and JPs with sick bots won everything) really have no ground to make claims about what people should or shouldn't be doing (unless you never camped kings because of it, which I'd respect).

But wait, complete monopolization isn't an issue anymore because of claim delay, right? Mobs don't pop purple anymore, right?

I'd be happy to see bots completely eliminated (wishful thinking) primarily for one reason: To hear people's reactions when they get beat. Right now everyone has a nice blanket over their head and whenever they get beaten to a claim they just say "pshh, fucking bots. That guy's using a better bot than me I guess." I want to see the reactions when people don't have that to fall back on, and they have no choice but to just admit to themselves that they got owned by another person.

That's the real reason people use bots. Because they want to be able to place the blame on someone other than themselves if they lose claim, because it hurts their ego too much to admit they were bested by another human.

[Sidanoir]

I don't see stuff pop purple anymore..I have seen yellow and unable to act or complete spells..saying claiming while still yellow..could be lag...

PS2 still stacks up pretty well to most bots...for DA Just clear darters + PS2 "spam" is not bad..and removes human targetting delay..mobs pop a lot faster on PS2

[Cloaking]

well never expected this thread to turn out like this; it's nice to see how other lses on other server deal with botting, whether it's to bot themselves or refrain from botting.

Back to those who love me, I never once claimed this name to be my actual in game name at all so I don't see where you're trying to call me fake, this is a name I use on these forums that's all. Never even heard of this noob cloaking because unreal recruits anyone who's 75 into the ls anyways fuck if anyone even knows who's in their ls.

Sock puppet or not, the problem I tell is very real. Unreal's like a disease killing off the people of bismarck. Even as I type more people have begun botting in various lses and it blows. Our server is very old fashioned in their values and beliefs and so are the lses. Most lses have rules preventing members from trash talking other lses no matter how big of an assclown the ls is and most have lses against botting and will boot members for doing it.

It'd be awesome if all the hnm camping lses of bismarck could form a coalition to just fuck unreal over but there's probably too much rivalry from each ls for that shit to happen.

So really, what is there left to do when it's: pointless to random, lses won't mpk/steal, and won't bot. I remember in EQ if people guilds were faggots, all the guilds would just blacklist all the members from that guild and eventually those guilds dissapeared but I really can't see that happening with ffxi anytime soon.

Best part is the only response unreal gives is some noob saying I jacked his name and that he ain't me and hawkylol. Hawky you were easily the one most outspoken about hating botters and the kuwaitis that do it and look where you are now mr. outspoken, in unreal. Wear those cursed bodies with pride, pride of fucking 60+ people everyday and taking away their enjoyment of a fucking game cause you're a greedy shit.

[Ryko]

But wait, complete monopolization isn't an issue anymore because of claim delay, right? Mobs don't pop purple anymore, right?

Ironically the claim delay is what caused our monopolization on fairy >_>

[divisortheory]

But wait, complete monopolization isn't an issue anymore because of claim delay, right? Mobs don't pop purple anymore, right?

Ironically the claim delay is what caused our monopolization on fairy >_>

I sent an email suggestion to SE saying they should make it a random number between 15 and 30 seconds.

[Ryko]

Would have still happened that way, it was numbers and just plain dumb voke/stun/holy macros >_>

[Eaglestrike]

People who haven't experienced a complete monopolization of king claims by a few asses using bots (much worse because this was way before the delay system and JPs with sick bots won everything) really have no ground to make claims about what people should or shouldn't be doing (unless you never camped kings because of it, which I'd respect).

But wait, complete monopolization isn't an issue anymore because of claim delay, right? Mobs don't pop purple anymore, right?

I'd be happy to see bots completely eliminated (wishful thinking) primarily for one reason: To hear people's reactions when they get beat. Right now everyone has a nice blanket over their head and whenever they get beaten to a claim they just say "pshh, fucking bots. That guy's using a better bot than me I guess." I want to see the reactions when people don't have that to fall back on, and they have no choice but to just admit to themselves that they got owned by another person.

That's the real reason people use bots. Because they want to be able to place the blame on someone other than themselves if they lose claim, because it hurts their ego too much to admit they were bested by another human.

Completely agree here. EVERYTIME I see someone lose claim on ANYTHING I always see "fucking botter". Either my server is pretty clean for bots (only one LS openly bots and they even claim their former leader 'took the bot with him') or we have closet botters (a few in every LS, but not widespread) but so many people blame bots for shit, it's funny. My former LS leader was horrible with this shit, his pride couldn't be touched by anyone or anything without him going nuts, he was a fucking retard too (not sure which came first, being a retard or too much pride).

[divisortheory]

Would have still happened that way, it was numbers and just plain dumb voke/stun/holy macros >_>

Maybe I'll amend my suggestion to say that the server should reject additional "claim" packets so that they are accepted by the server at a maximum rate of 1 claim attempt per second per person. You can time your bots so that they all go off in succession at .05 second intervals, but that wouldn't be much different than the natural spamming of people as fast as they can.

[Ryko]

I'm confused, do you think I'm implying that we were botting? <_< It was just that, dumb menu spam.

[TsingTao]

Where. Not that I'm surprised, just curious.

BTW, who are you?

All of Unicorn bots, now go cry somewhere else.

My ingame name is Turnc, i'm in pain. I don't think i've seen you at any ground camps, could be wrong though

Ahh, page 2. I didn't go back far enough.

No, you haven't seen me there. I got rather fed up with end game & King camps (for a number of reasons) only a couple weeks after Pain started. I have no idea if you were there the first couple weeks of Pain....it's fucking impossible to load everyone and see who's there.

You guys do have some nice bots though, or at least you used to. Jumped in there with the big boys right from the start.

[chiz]

People who haven't experienced a complete monopolization of king claims by a few asses using bots (much worse because this was way before the delay system and JPs with sick bots won everything) really have no ground to make claims about what people should or shouldn't be doing (unless you never camped kings because of it, which I'd respect).

But wait, complete monopolization isn't an issue anymore because of claim delay, right? Mobs don't pop purple anymore, right?

I'd be happy to see bots completely eliminated (wishful thinking) primarily for one reason: To hear people's reactions when they get beat. Right now everyone has a nice blanket over their head and whenever they get beaten to a claim they just say "pshh, fucking bots. That guy's using a better bot than me I guess." I want to see the reactions when people don't have that to fall back on, and they have no choice but to just admit to themselves that they got owned by another person.

That's the real reason people use bots. Because they want to be able to place the blame on someone other than themselves if they lose claim, because it hurts their ego too much to admit they were bested by another human.

Completely agree here. EVERYTIME I see someone lose claim on ANYTHING I always see "fucking botter". Either my server is pretty clean for bots (only one LS openly bots and they even claim their former leader 'took the bot with him') or we have closet botters (a few in every LS, but not widespread) but so many people blame bots for shit, it's funny. My former LS leader was horrible with this shit, his pride couldn't be touched by anyone or anything without him going nuts, he was a fucking retard too (not sure which came first, being a retard or too much pride).

Ryko's point and something I've alluded to as well is that we've seen what conditions were like pre-botting. For the most part, if you had more #s and more people attentively trying to claim, you'd win pull. It was really that simple.

The introduction of wide-spread botting was pretty obvious, like when a new LS shows up out of nowhere and manages to pull 5-6 Fafhoggs in a row no matter how many people they have or how many people are in the pit. Hell, there's even been times they've had people pulling SOLO and beating the 2-3 other LS there

Most recent example.....a LS shows up in DA after almost a 1 year hiatus. They don't win pull for a full 2 weeks, then suddenly pull a Nidhogg like they flipped on a proverbial switch. Said LS continues to bot pull claim after claim since then, only splitting pulls occasionally with other known botting LS.........fishy? You be the judge.

[epigram]

Nothing against giving a E.Body to a BST, but with the tumultuous relationship between the allied linkshells, there's more emo contained within than a Green Day concert.

I have no clue what your even talking about. There has been no inner-ls-drama in CC what-so-ever, on any drop.

First Novio went to Quasit :D and he esploded. Second went to Deru, and next one will go to whoever.