So how do you deal with...

[Hawky]

too bad its not the real cloaking

[Ishido]

And too bad after Unreal's recruiting zerg I doubt it's even a majority kuwaiti anymore.

And lol @ saying Bismarck has reletively few botters, I'm sure you can count them all right?

[Paegan]

You can't speak for everyone in your LS, the very same way that I can't speak for everyone in mine. Even if you could, if you were remotely honest with yourself you wouldn't say such a thing. It's just hard to admit the opposite to yourself (let alone publically).

I can't speak for all of them, but SD knows my position on botting very well, and that position is that if I ever see any evidence of us doing that crap then I'm out, of HNM camping at the very least. I don't care enough about kings to want to cheat, and I'm not going to help anyone else that is doing it either. I'm there to help the people who do care about getting king gear, but not in that way. I'll help despite the odds being stacked against us, but if they want king gear badly enough to cheat then they can fuck off to UP or wherever (as one or two have done) or do it without me.

Who implied lacking human choice in this issue? There were options there for a reason, buddy.

Not in your original post there weren't. You basically told him to cheat and gave him an excuse to justify that to himself and others, which is what pissed me off.

You are so completely oblivious to the sad state of affairs on Fairy that it's pathetic.

Let me guess, you're another member of the "we cheat because everyone does" club amirite?

[Ryko]

I can't speak for all of them, but SD knows my position on botting very well, and that position is that if I ever see any evidence of us doing that crap then I'm out, of HNM camping at the very least. I don't care enough about kings to want to cheat, and I'm not going to help anyone else that is doing it either. I'm there to help the people who do care about getting king gear, but not in that way. I'll help despite the odds being stacked against us, but if they want king gear badly enough to cheat then they can fuck off to UP or wherever (as one or two have done) or do it without me.

So your problem isn't with the potential and very decent likelihood of cheating going on even under your roof but rather their being caught by you. Oh ok. Not a big deal as long as no one claims something afk. If someone is pulling that crap in your shell they're probably laughing right now because it's not hard to keep a secret from someone who voluntarily shields themself from the crap going on. Bag on UP, bag on TF, bag on Excal, bag on [various single people from other shells], whatever. At the end of the day to them it's one more claim and one more ineffectual complainer.

In my original post my answer left the possibility of choosing not to and therefore gaining little to nothing by choosing to do so. I'm sorry I didn't word it to be as viable a means to the same (immediate) end but it's not. One keeps you feeling righteous but very realistically causes you to gain less in the same amount of time and the second is a gain with a cost of a lot of things. Is the risk/loss worth the reward? Whatever, that's something each person has to ask themself.

Let me guess, you're another member of the "we cheat because everyone does" club amirite?

To this day ayn's not claimed at a single one of our aery camps (yet has a black belt and a ridill). His point was that you're oblivious if you can't accept the very high probability that at least someone in each shell is doing something "wrong" at king camps.

[Rocky]

Hello.
This is the real person that plays as cloaking on the bismarck server.
in no way am i connected to the fraud posting as me on this forum and talking bad about the ls i am in. I wouls hope every one will ignore this person posting as me. At no time would i speak ill of unreal or any of its members. thank you.

Cloaking.

Rocky

[z3r0c00l]

Usual crap, long time reader first time poster.

So it's been about 3 years since many of us long time players have been around the game and we're all mostly all milking the shit out of end game by now yet we're still stuck in homo places like lolaery for lame drop rates.

What makes it worse are te fucking cheaters out there. If you know a ls is blatantly cheating, what kind of rules can you really set up for people to follow? I mean, why the fuck random when people have an unfair advantage to begin with? only ones getting fucked over are people who don't bot.

Yea, there's people who bot in every ls whether people know it or not so it's still relatively fair but when you know half a ls like around 20 some people are botting, wtf can you do aside from mpking them all the time and randoming for claim?

Some input I'd like to hear are people from like Unicorn who have to deal with Fortune and their counterparts who play in the same cafe, Unreal from Bismarck. How the fuck do you deal with these shits. Fortune's website already been posted before and already in drama database for being caught cheating on their forums with screenshots; unreal's http://unreal-ls.com/. If you look at the SS section, they've claimed like every thing for a whole month straight and it's still going up everyday.

Ah I know, if fucking Saddam Hussein wouldnt have been stopped and would have took over worthless Kuwait we'd wouldnt be having these problems... but ohhhh no someone just had to step in the way. I just say KARK...Kill All Rebel Kuwaitis

[Ayn]

Let me guess, you're another member of the "we cheat because everyone does" club amirite?

Nope. I'm the sucker that keeps going back to spawns like Sozu Rogberry, Bob (Ullikummi, though haven't been recently), Sozu Sarberry, and other small NMs even when they're continually botted by RMT (Nothing's funnier than watching an RMT claim Sozu, then die while AFK). I'm someone who goes to the Aery and sees claims on Faf that are just waaaayyy too fishy.

Hang out at the Aery, Behemoth's Dominion, and Aspidochelone for more than a month then tell me "This isn't that widespread on our server". The playing field is not level. Mind you, this is not me going "Waah wahh we can't claim" (hey, like Ryko said; I got my black belt and lolTHFwithaRidill, what do I have to complain about?), it's just how things are on Fairy.

Your stance is an admirable one, but like I said, completely oblivious to the state of affairs on the server.

[Deacon]

Unicorn isn't as problematic with bots, the claims are spread out enough so that one linkshell might get a bunch of pulls one week, and never claim the whole next week. Its usually the newer or inexperienced linkshells that will claim, and end up flailing the pit or flat out wiping and it becomes a voke fest.

Its been pretty much the norm to stick around when a linkshell claims Tiamat, Faf and the occasional Aspido / KB since theres only 1-2 groups that can consistantly kill without wiping hardcore; pretty sad =/

[Ayn]

Its been pretty much the norm to stick around when a linkshell claims Tiamat, Faf and the occasional Aspido / KB since theres only 1-2 groups that can consistantly kill without wiping hardcore; pretty sad =/

Pretty sad? I dunno, I figured it'd be great for entertainment.

Kinda like that time a few weeks ago when the random JP shelled claimed Fafnir. . then proceeded to flail themselves. Twice.

[XxSlusherxx]

Posted this somewhere else once, but I think it fits this convo...


Honestly I wonder when the conversation will change from anti-botting to everyone botting. There is no way to know that you didn't waste 3 hours camping against a bot unless you know that you had a botter working for you. People from other LSs like SF or Peacemakers or even PoS for that matter possibly don't have botters, but if a linkshell in the aery is botting, your wasting your time. If everyone botted at least everyone would be on equal footing, and hey theres more skill to botting than hoping it pops right on top of you, so that it actually loads.

If every linkshell had 3-4 members that botted it is the ONLY way that pulls would be random, because something would have to give, unlike when one linkshell is lucky enough to have the other ls's go for it with skill agianst their bots. Morality is based on ground rules, and breaking them, the only thing making 'botting' is people refusing to agree to a policy like this, and I don't understand their agenda, what do they have to lose??? Is this just a scare tactic so that they can be the only LS that bots? or do they genuenly think they stand something to gain by keeping it an advantage to the few people that are ok with botting themselves?

There is no way to prove that someone bots, but there is no way to prove that somebody does either, I could take a pic of my mac, and my ps2 and all my copies of FFXI for ps2 and 360, and people would just say I'm hiding my PC. But at least if botting was decided between everyone to be fair game, then we could be sure there was an even playing field.

[Machazareel]

You can spend your life shovelling fertaliser and you'll never encounter more bullshit than you do from certain people in Dragon's Aery.

Despite the righteous persona a linkshell attempts to portray, in more cases than not, someone in that linkshell is running a bot. It's not an 'omg' thing anymore, you get used to the fact that even if you're camping fucking VE, there's probably someone there with FFXIApp running.

No point in whining, no point in pointing fingers and sure as fuck no point in complaining about it, because unless SE revises their EULA and starts doing what Blizzard has done with WoW, you're going to be going up against the same sort of odds from now until the end of the game.

Whether you want to shoulder the risk or not, and whether you can cast your ideals concerning fair play to the side or not, are the only things that are valid for your internal debate, and nobody else is really interested in hearing about it anymore.

[Ayn]

Hey how about you stop spouting well-voiced opinions and COME MERIT ONCE IN AWHILE HUH.

[Machazareel]

shurynot, I think I'll be available today, finally done with all my current assignments and such.

Have a Kirin tonight, though, probably, so I'll be indisposed at that time. Get Ryko to hit me up on aim or something, I'll probably be dicking around in WoW

[Beckwin]

I can't speak for all of them, but SD knows my position on botting very well, and that position is that if I ever see any evidence of us doing that crap then I'm out, of HNM camping at the very least. I don't care enough about kings to want to cheat, and I'm not going to help anyone else that is doing it either. I'm there to help the people who do care about getting king gear, but not in that way. I'll help despite the odds being stacked against us, but if they want king gear badly enough to cheat then they can fuck off to UP or wherever (as one or two have done) or do it without me.

What a prick. You're not helping anyone get their items if you can't claim anyway; whatever job you come on for the actual fight I can guarantee that someone else can fill your spot and make an attempt to claim the mob. You aren't worth shit to any shell if you can't claim AND would bail on your shellmates as soon as you took off the blinders and saw that in fact some are playing on the same field everyone else is.

You can keep being delusional about it and think that by standing by your principals and believing in the heart of the cards and yada yada by standing around for 3 hours not doing a damn thing if you so choose, but you're just shitting yourself. Every HNM shell has bots. Yes, even yours. There's at least one guy who does it. Your pull rate is pretty proportional to how many bots you have a given camp. When the HNM shells at a camp only have a few each, the claims are pretty even and legit claims aren't all that rare (that's how it used to be on Remora when I first started HNMing). Then when one shell ramps it up, you can clearly see their pull rate jump. Then other shells see it and respond accordingly, and things go back to square one. If anything, mass botting re-levels the playing field of SEs fucked up king system. Deviation at that point only comes from numbers at camps, how much of the day you can camp, and whatever level of understanding how to claim a shell has.

[Jhun]

When Fortune was dominating the 3 kings it was only few people that casts on let's say Fafnir when he's about to pop and you see the phrase "X person casted on Faf but it never loaded on my screen " 75% of the times I can see Fafnir or Nidhogg pops yellow on my screen if the pop was on top of me or near me, yeah I have a decent Pc not the retarded PCs in cafes fake Cloaking was refering to.
But nowadays it's very hard to see one of the kings pops yellow to you because the second it pop you'll see 30+ people casting at the same time in ONE SPOT on Fafnir, I can't cover another spot but I'm sure the number can be 60++.

Yesterday King Behemoth and Aspidochelone poped in Unicorn and today is a Nidhogg chance so it's 100% all the HNM-botting linkshells and thier rivals will show up in the aery, since I filter my chat log I'll ask one of my linkshell members to SS the claim. I bet you it will be more than 50 people will be casting on Fafnir/Nidhogg the instance it pop.

On another note, Unicorn was in a stone age era and it is very rare to see a non JP person wearing a king Abj or a Ridill, getting ready to pull Tiamat with more than 18 in the zone morning time to avoid Corses was something usual, begging the JP to buy BB items..etc of desperate things.

Nowadays the NA linkshells are racing to reach and claim Tiamat seconds before the actual pop, sometimes it's a matter of seconds that seperates a winning pull from a losing pull, most of the time a solo provoke+kite will win an a solo BLM ElementalSeal+Sleep method for pulling Tiamat and it's only 3-5 people holding Tiamat untill thier reinforcements arrives. Nowadays NA people are camping HNMs for thier 2nd and 3rd full-set of abjurations maybe another Ridill or a full-set of BB items for thier Lv20 MNK, yeah Unicorn evolved to the upper level and what is the reason you think behind this?

Botting is the main reason behind this because it pisses off the JPs (claiming advantage) and keep them away from monopolizing

[Beckwin]

JPs bot too.

[Ryko]

Alternatively you could call the people who would willingly bot "for" him but behind his back pricks for not caring about his beliefs. It's a 2 sided coin sadly.

[Jhun]

In Unicorn the strongest JP linkshell doesn't bot (but I think they have 3-4 botters among them) who occasionally claims once a month.

The only botting JP linkshells in Unicorn survives a week or two then breaks because it's hard to get Fafnir under 50%, and they Aerial-Armor thier PLDs when they fight Behemoth with 10+ members

[Beckwin]

Nah, because the people he thinks he's "helping" could very well be botting themselves, and thinking you're too high and mighty for the reality of the situation to actually help out but still wanting to look like a nice guy by making an appearence (with your blinders on, of course) still makes you a prick.

It'd be like going to Africa on an aid mission and preaching abstinence. People are gonna fuck out of wedlock whether you like the idea of it or not, so you might as well set aside your ideals and hand out some condoms if you really give a shit about helping anyone.

EDIT: yes, I just compared FFXI Endgame to AIDS. Send me to hell with a bundle of internets.

[Plow]

you do realize that there are actually people out there that don't bot right?