So how do you deal with...

[Ryko]

I'm rather sure that anyone who is of the mindset that there is no shell that doesn't at least have someone who bots also can accept the fact that there are plenty of people in said shells who don't like it and would never touch such a thing. It's just silly to keep your head in the clouds or in the gutter on the whole thing.

[Beckwin]

Of course there are people out there that don't bot. HNM Linkshells that don't bot are a lot rarer by comparison. I'm sure it varies by server and such, but botting is out there.

Apparently claim botting is pretty undetectable by SE as long as you aren't a tard about it. So if you're in a no-bot paradise and someone decides to start, there really isn't much you can do about it aside from flail their asses, which will likely get you in trouble before running a bot will. Also, if you decide to flail someone, that pretty much calls open season for them to do it to you (in their minds).

As of now there's no way to combat botting. So if you're gonna camp Kings and there is a fairly noticeable degree of botting on your server, you can either: a) step up to the plate or b) get a good seat, because you'll be watching a lot of dragons being fought.

I've been in b) before. It's not a great feeling when you can't even get heca caps for your friends and when you can barely field an alliance to camp because morale gets so shitty about wasting three hours day in and day out just to watch others claim and kill.

[Plow]

Of course there are people out there that don't bot. HNM Linkshells that don't bot are a lot rarer by comparison. I'm sure it varies by server and such, but botting is out there.

Apparently claim botting is pretty undetectable by SE as long as you aren't a tard about it. So if you're in a no-bot paradise and someone decides to start, there really isn't much you can do about it aside from flail their asses, which will likely get you in trouble before running a bot will. Also, if you decide to flail someone, that pretty much calls open season for them to do it to you (in their minds).

As of now there's no way to combat botting. So if you're gonna camp Kings and there is a fairly noticeable degree of botting on your server, you can either: a) step up to the plate or b) get a good seat, because you'll be watching a lot of dragons being fought.

I've been in b) before. It's not a great feeling when you can't even get heca caps for your friends and when you can barely field an alliance to camp because morale gets so shitty about wasting three hours day in and day out just to watch others claim and kill.

ok, fine.

You do realize that there are linkshells that don't bot right?

Or do you honestly believe that every single linkshell that ever kills a king bits?

[Jhun]

Linkshells that doesn't bot will eventually bot or wait for a claim that happens once in a lifetime from a long delay king pop or a free HQ wwlolww.

All linkshell that doesn't bot and consists of 30-40 members won't get shit from kings only the leader and his gf gets eventually.

[Plow]

Linkshells that doesn't bot will eventually bot or wait for a claim that happens once in a lifetime from a long delay king pop or a free HQ wwlolww.

All linkshell that doesn't bot and consists of 30-40 members won't get shit from kings only the leader and his gf gets eventually.

If that's what you have to tell yourself in order to keep your bot running, then there's really nothing anyone can say.

[Machazareel]

Of course there are people out there that don't bot. HNM Linkshells that don't bot are a lot rarer by comparison. I'm sure it varies by server and such, but botting is out there.

Apparently claim botting is pretty undetectable by SE as long as you aren't a tard about it. So if you're in a no-bot paradise and someone decides to start, there really isn't much you can do about it aside from flail their asses, which will likely get you in trouble before running a bot will. Also, if you decide to flail someone, that pretty much calls open season for them to do it to you (in their minds).

As of now there's no way to combat botting. So if you're gonna camp Kings and there is a fairly noticeable degree of botting on your server, you can either: a) step up to the plate or b) get a good seat, because you'll be watching a lot of dragons being fought.

I've been in b) before. It's not a great feeling when you can't even get heca caps for your friends and when you can barely field an alliance to camp because morale gets so shitty about wasting three hours day in and day out just to watch others claim and kill.

ok, fine.

You do realize that there are linkshells that don't bot right?

Or do you honestly believe that every single linkshell that ever kills a king bits?

There are some, but you'll be hard pressed to find many linkshells that camp in DA and don't have at least one person running a bot. It's an ugliness most of us have gotten used to.

[Jhun]

Linkshells that doesn't bot will eventually bot or wait for a claim that happens once in a lifetime from a long delay king pop or a free HQ wwlolww.

All linkshell that doesn't bot and consists of 30-40 members won't get shit from kings only the leader and his gf gets eventually.

If that's what you have to tell yourself in order to keep your bot running, then there's really nothing anyone can say.

Can't do anything when SE can't detects bot, this matter is the exact same one when people cry because rmt bots and claims 90% of the time..yeah can't do much about it

Like Ryko said: fight fire wih fire

[Makore]

I don't understand people who attempt to justify botting. End-game ffxi was created in a way that makes it time consuming and frustrating - sitting in Dragon's Aery for 3 hours just to lose the claim to another linkshell gets old. It really, really does. But resorting to botting is basically announcing you're a jackass that just enjoys wasting other people's time.

Why? Because they don't bot, my friend, that's why! They are legit players, for whatever reason, camping a monster in the way it's meant to be camped. And you are there acting like a fool and compromising a good portion of the 12090834 players in the pool for some e-bling for yourself. Or maybe you just want the epenis from being in a linkshell with lots of Ridills.

If my linkshell consistantly wins pulls with bots, and I turn a blind eye, I'm just as guilty as them, and all our accomplishments instantly turn to nothing. Sure, you may argue it isn't an accomplishment to do anything in this game, but I still feel a little surge of pride when I see my friends cheering after a battle - not because of the items it dropped, but because we had fun. I'm happy for them killing a monster that's fun to kill, enjoying the game that they play for enjoyment with the people they enjoy playing it with. It's no fun at all to bot an internet dragon just for the sake of pixelated items that will be gone when the servers have been long dead, and FFXI is just a memory. It make take us longer to do what we want to do and fight what we want to fight, but at least we know we didn't compromise our morals and values in something so petty as a video game just to get further quicker.

[S N K]

Botting is the main reason behind this because it pisses off the JPs (claiming advantage) and keep them away from monopolizing

JPs used to bot way worse then anything NAs did in Fairy. Nothing like showing up in a zone and watching mobs spawn claimed all the damn time. We had this one JP LS PLD named Secure that before the rage patch kited NQ Behemoth for 6 fucking hours straight after a maint just to keep the mob in their hours.

[Jhun]

We also have this JP LS who poped kings purple to the entire server, now they are calling us "Botter LS Leave wwww".

They dominated Unicorn for a good whole year (most of HQ were free), if I'm not mistaken they have 8 Defending rings (still plays or quit) and I'm pretty sure more than 25 Ridills, the Herald Gaiters number is huge too.

They still camp Kings but occasionally and still claims but rarely, I don't think anyone in unicorn ever competed with them, before bots were used in the server we were the only LS that competed against them because we had JP claimers, and when the bots came to us we just ruined thier lives by making them stare at us claiming each Fafnir in a row for a good 1 month.

[Dirian]

I don't understand people who attempt to justify botting. End-game ffxi was created in a way that makes it time consuming and frustrating - sitting in Dragon's Aery for 3 hours just to lose the claim to another linkshell gets old. It really, really does. But resorting to botting is basically announcing you're a jackass that just enjoys wasting other people's time.

Why? Because they don't bot, my friend, that's why! They are legit players, for whatever reason, camping a monster in the way it's meant to be camped. And you are there acting like a fool and compromising a good portion of the 12090834 players in the pool for some e-bling for yourself. Or maybe you just want the epenis from being in a linkshell with lots of Ridills.

If my linkshell consistantly wins pulls with bots, and I turn a blind eye, I'm just as guilty as them, and all our accomplishments instantly turn to nothing. Sure, you may argue it isn't an accomplishment to do anything in this game, but I still feel a little surge of pride when I see my friends cheering after a battle - not because of the items it dropped, but because we had fun. I'm happy for them killing a monster that's fun to kill, enjoying the game that they play for enjoyment with the people they enjoy playing it with. It's no fun at all to bot an internet dragon just for the sake of pixelated items that will be gone when the servers have been long dead, and FFXI is just a memory. It make take us longer to do what we want to do and fight what we want to fight, but at least we know we didn't compromise our morals and values in something so petty as a video game just to get further quicker.

I don't know, seems you're easily on the right track to understanding it.

All it takes is one shell that decides they would prefer to not see anyone else ever claim and bot.


Then, after realizing that if they ever want to actually FIGHT the damned thing, and seeing nothing but purple fafnirs for over a month, the other shells are going to ask themselves if they want to keep wasting their time in aery.


At that point you either get the hell out of aery, or you stay in aery.


And if you stay in aery you either accept that you'll claim once in a blue moon when fafnir is 100% and KB is on day 7, or you decide you're going to do your shell a favor and save their sanity by doing whatever you can to give them a claim.


I can almost guarantee that if your shell decides to stick it out in aery, even if 90% of the shell is content with sticking it out even though they'll most likely not claim because they don't bot, at least someone in that shell is going to take the second course of action. They won't even tell anyone they're doing it.



Lets face it, if one shell has decided they're going to bot, its not like they're going to say "man this other shell has shown up to every single spawn for 3 months straight and hasn't seen so much as one claim. We should let them have one". High ideals are good and all, but the guys you're going against just honestly don't give a fuck. Are you going to speak for every person in your shell that not a one of you is going to say fuck you right back and run a bot of their own? Let's not be naive. If you stick it out in aery and you claim a reasonable amount of the time, and you know that at least one of the other shells in aery bots, then theres a very good chance that someone in your shell is botting too unless you guys just clear the darters and turn the whole thing into an enter spam fest.


No one likes wasting their time for nothing. Especially nothing that involves staring at flies for 3 hours and then going home without so much as gaining 80 exp and a title. Someone botting is someone whose saying they DON'T like wasting everyone's time, and that everyone includes the people they actually associate with and not the assholes in linkshell X.


Don't get me wrong. I don't condone botting, and I certainly don't like that it exists, but I'm not stupid enough to assume that noone in my shell is botting without my knowledge. The only thing less fun than botting an internet dragon is not ever fighting the internet dragon because some other asshole decided he WOULD bot it, and since he is unlikely to fix something that isn't broken for him, then the pragmatic thing is in fact to even the playing field.



All of that is to say that while I don't necessarily agree with the justification that leads someone to bot a claim, I do in fact understand it. If you don't understand why someone would want to bot you're not on some kind of moral highground, you're just an idiot.

[Makore]

I can plainly understand why people would consider botting. However, that doesn't mean I condone it, nor will I ever. My linkshell knows if I so much as highly suspected them of botting claims, regardless of it's a sack whose been with us 3 years or a new member whose been with us 1 day, they're gone, no questions asked and no second chances. It's zero tolerance.

As I said, if botting is the only way to win claims, I rather go do something else in FFXI then sit there and waste my time for the sake of one internet dragon. I'm not going to stoop so low as to do the very thing that turns my end-game experience into shit just so I can get somewhere faster. Ragnarok is plagued with botting LS's - but even so, my linkshell still manages to win a few claims here and there, we're fortunate enough to do that - one LS usually clears the darters before intervals (the only one that's openly admitted to botting, there is irony in that) - which has increased our claiming power considerably and makes the odds a bit more fair.

If things got to the point where 99% of Fafnirs popped purple (it's been like that before, there were years when Fafnir was basically JP ONRY), I don't think I'd have my linkshell stay in Aery. There are plenty of other things to do in FFXI that don't require getting a bot in order to have fun, and that's all we're aiming for. Fun. Funny fun fun. Video games are supposed to be fun in the end, right D;

[divisortheory]

Linkshells that doesn't bot will eventually bot or wait for a claim that happens once in a lifetime from a long delay king pop or a free HQ wwlolww.

Odd, because I've claimed quite a few Fafs myself and I'm pretty sure I don't bot.

[epigram]

If you don't like botting you can go to sea. Oh... nvm

[Jhun]

Linkshells that doesn't bot will eventually bot or wait for a claim that happens once in a lifetime from a long delay king pop or a free HQ wwlolww.

Odd, because I've claimed quite a few Fafs myself and I'm pretty sure I don't bot.

I claimed Nidhogg twice and Aspid 3 times without botting but it's only when it poped with high delay or Aspid poping in the far SE corner.

But still it's hard to beat 60+ botters, whether you claim legitly or by botting it's the same X person claimed Fafnir nothing would make any difference.

[PussPuss]

If you don't like botting you can go to sea. Oh... nvm

It was true for a little while

[epigram]

We still have animated tabar !!!

[chiz]

The problem with botting is that it perpetuates itself and spreads like a cancer. Asshats that justify the use of bots based on the assumption that everyone else bots is what bothers me the most. Botting may be the norm now, but this wasn't always true. It only takes 1 botter to start the cycle that eventually leads to the perception that everyone who claims a king is using a bot.

While I can't say with 100% certainty that no one in my LS bots, I can say it with 99% certainty. Our moderate success in DA is simply the result of dedication, preparation and execution. I've always been strongly against botting because I view it as cheating and for me, its simply not worth compromising my belief system to succeed at anything, especially not an online video game.

How your leaders perceive the use of bots and what kind of character your members have will greatly determine whether botting becomes part of your LS culture or not. Everyone in my LS knows my stance on botting and know that I would never condone it or resort to using bots myself. I would never tell a LS member to bot or tell other LS members its OK to bot, simply because I myself would never bot. Why? Well beyond the whole issue of cheating, I've never felt it was worth risking my account over. I wouldn't respect someone who told me to do something they wouldn't do themselves, so I wouldn't put other people in that position.

In any case, I present other options, that don't involve botting:

1) Show up daily with enough to kill. Get people ready for intervals and make sure everyone you have there is actually trying to pull.

2) Keep track of who's consistently botting pulls (its usually the 2-3 same people in any particular shell) and put a GM call on them daily.

3) Don't go to Aery everyday, just pick your spots.

As others said, morale does play a large role in attendance at any given camp or LS events in general, but if morale is low, you need to find times/situations that give you the best chance for success. NA primetime at 9pm with 200 in the pit isn't going to give you as good a chance as 7am with 50 in the pit.

Most of our kills are when other LS are shorthanded/unprepared or we're uncontested. Others (especially our early kills) are from other shells claiming and wiping. Most of the time we do just sit there biting our tongues watching some shitty LS comprised of recycled server trash noob it up. We've had some success in getting notorious botters banned, but other than that there's really not much you can do while keeping your nose clean. Sucks, but you don't have a chance if you don't go.

[Paegan]

Of course there are people out there that don't bot. HNM Linkshells that don't bot are a lot rarer by comparison. I'm sure it varies by server and such, but botting is out there.

Apparently claim botting is pretty undetectable by SE as long as you aren't a tard about it. So if you're in a no-bot paradise and someone decides to start, there really isn't much you can do about it aside from flail their asses, which will likely get you in trouble before running a bot will. Also, if you decide to flail someone, that pretty much calls open season for them to do it to you (in their minds).

As of now there's no way to combat botting. So if you're gonna camp Kings and there is a fairly noticeable degree of botting on your server, you can either: a) step up to the plate or b) get a good seat, because you'll be watching a lot of dragons being fought.

I've been in b) before. It's not a great feeling when you can't even get heca caps for your friends and when you can barely field an alliance to camp because morale gets so shitty about wasting three hours day in and day out just to watch others claim and kill.

ok, fine.

You do realize that there are linkshells that don't bot right?

Or do you honestly believe that every single linkshell that ever kills a king bits?

There are some, but you'll be hard pressed to find many linkshells that camp in DA and don't have at least one person running a bot. It's an ugliness most of us have gotten used to.

Oho! So now there *is* the possibility that some LS's don't bot

Anyway, that discussion is going nowhere if, whatever I say, the response is that people are doing it behind my back anyway. Well if they are then they're the most fkn incompetent botters ever is all I can say

I can't prove for certain that no-one in my LS bots, but all the evidence so far points that way and until it doesn't then I see no reason believe otherwise.

The problem with botting is that it perpetuates itself and spreads like a cancer. Asshats that justify the use of bots based on the assumption that everyone else bots is what bothers me the most. Botting may be the norm now, but this wasn't always true. It only takes 1 botter to start the cycle that eventually leads to the perception that everyone who claims a king is using a bot.

Exactly.


*Edit* for spelling

[Jhun]

While I agree on everything you say here but you have to remember each server is differnet than the other.

The JPs team up to prevent the NA from killing HNMs, an example was when a new JP LS claimed Nidhogg and had a hard time to survive let alone damaging the damn dragon were about to wipe, the dominating JP LS (who introduced the random rule) asked them to give thier Nidhogg "so the NAs don't get it" . . . . .

Even between the NAs themselves, some linkshells (A+B) team up with each other to prevent others(C..D..etc) from claiming. In Unicorn claiming Fafnir with 3-4 people then teaming up is something usually happens.

So I don't think in the server I play in there is a good HNM LS that can't hold Fafnir while thier friends reach DA to team up.
I heard in other servers people still wipe to Fafnir with 18+ in thier LS present in DA but in unicorn you don't find these kind of linkshells only those that created recently and dies from 6 Darters.