Ranged Attack change, info prz

[chiz]

does anyone remember the WS Calc for ranged weapons, not the actual formula itself exactly, but I remember reading about a year ago how ranged weaponskills (specifically slug & side), have a more profound damage boost from the weapon itself, and not from the ammo, which lead people to believe that's the main reason why sidewinder (with ebow/kabura) generally hits higher numbers than slugshot (with HF+1/Silver), and the fact that STR is factored in twice in archery (str vs vit, and secondary modifier) is a distance second reason

perhaps thats why slugshot is so underwhelming compared to sidewinder, the base damage on marks weapons sans Obow is lackluster compared to even the generic end-game Bows

Ranged WS damage is essentially:

(Weapon Damage + Ammo Damage + fSTR2 + WSC)*constant factor

What was found was that fSTR2 was based solely off Weapon Damage (not Ammo Damage) so fSTR2 capped a bit higher for bows than guns (for E.bow vs Hellfire it's only a 7 point difference). Also, WSC for Sidewinder is based off your STR*.16 + AGI*.25, and Slugshot is only AGI*.30.

amlaruil covered most of it, but to directly answer Reality's question, the difference is found in the higher fSTR2 cap (41 vs 71), which for all intents and purposes, is straight WD on Sidewinder. Ammo damage and WSC differences are factored in fully into WSD itself though.

To expand:

Sidwinder/Slug:

WSD = pDIF * fTP * (WD + WDammo + fSTR2 + WSC)

WSD = pDIF * 5.0 * (WD + WDammo + fSTR2 + WSC)

fSTR2 cap is only calculated using WD, not WD + WDammo. So as you can see, everything within the parenthesis gets the full benefit of the big multipliers, the 5.0 fTP from Slug/Side and pDIF (up to 3.0 cap for Ranged Attacks, and another 1.25x for criticals).

If you look closely at the formula along with the WSC modifiers for Side/Slug, you can see how Ebow has always kept up with or outperformed Hellfire+1.

(71/9)+8 vs. (41/9)+8 = 15 vs 12 = +3 fSTR2 in favor of Ebow. Ebow has an additional +3 STR on the bow itself to take full advantage of the higher fSTR2 cap.

The rest lies in WSC, which at L75 is level corrected by .85. Taking nominal and conservative stats for a standard Osode RNG:

100 STR / 100 AGI (not counting the +3 STR/AGI from Ebow)

21 + 13 vs. 25

34 vs. 25 = +9 WSC advantage for Ebow

+3 fSTR2 + 9 WSC = 12, which is enough to outweigh the WD+WDammo advantage Hfire+1 has over Ebow alone. Ebow also has +5 Rattk over Hfire+1 and the 3 STR/AGI.

Ebow further distances itself from Hfire+1 when you throw PPA into the mix, which allow for more +STR/Rattk instead of Acc. over HF+1, along with WDammo +2 and another +10 Rattk.

[Po]

Who woulda thought the discussion of Slugwinder modifiers would be on this message board a month or two ago? Not many people.. are the lolRng days over? Along with the DRG is better than RNG, etc?
Also call me a noob or whatever, but I do not know what this means exactly:
WSD = pDIF * fTP * (WD + WDammo + fSTR2 + WSC)

WSD = pDIF * 5.0 * (WD + WDammo + fSTR2 + WSC)
What do those stand for? I have been a RNG for over a year, but I guess never saw it written that way.

[Naramaska]

WSD = pDIF * 5.0 * (WD + WDammo + fSTR2 + WSC)
What do those stand for? I have been a RNG for over a year, but I guess never saw it written that way

pDIF = functon of your attack and the mob's DEF. It is not a straight divsion of atk/def.

fTP = TP-based modifier for a WS. For both Sidewinder and Slug Shot, this is 5.0

WD = Weapon damage
WDammo = ammo damage

fSTR2 = function of your STR and target's VIT, being at most equal to
(floor(weapon damage / 9) + 8)*2. Weapon damage does not include ammo damage. It is not straight subtraction of STR-VIT.

WSC = lolmodifiers


For more info: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Calculatin ... ill_Damage

[chiz]

WSC = lolmodifiers

I can't tell if this is sarcasm

Although I agree with not stressing WSC modifiers, they actually complement RNG extremely well given gear options, Side/Slug's 5.0 fTP, Ranged attack's higher return on STR compared to melee, and the consistency of Ranged Attack pDIF ranges.

Also, I didn't know fSTR2 was actually fSTR*2 , which would essentially double the bonus from fSTR for Bow over Gun.

Anyways, ffxicyclopedia is good, but I tend to reference

VZX WS Damage

It gives credit to the original Studio Gobli memo but has been constantly updated and provides some info on some of the more obscure WS formula info like c/ratio and relic WS.[/url]

[Po]

Someone on KI said this:

Before the update, I hit 318 at the sweet spot (8-9). After the update, I hit 318 at distance 1, distance 9 and distance 23. In other words, on TW mobs there is no longer any distance nerf.

Has this is been proven?

[Naramaska]

I can't tell if this is sarcasm

(Insert chatlog caption of Ryko talking about people who talk about modifiers here)

Mostly just because i'm sick of hearing THF's stacking useless crap like CHR for Dancing Edge, or AGI over STR for Sidewinder because it's a "bigger modifier".

[quote:fb11a]
Before the update, I hit 318 at the sweet spot (8-9). After the update, I hit 318 at distance 1, distance 9 and distance 23. In other words, on TW mobs there is no longer any distance nerf.

Has this is been proven?[/quote:fb11a]

I'll check it out after class.

[Po]

ty

[Raizins]

Someone on KI said this:

Before the update, I hit 318 at the sweet spot (8-9). After the update, I hit 318 at distance 1, distance 9 and distance 23. In other words, on TW mobs there is no longer any distance nerf.

Has this is been proven?

Yes, I did simliar tests myself on TW mobs.

Lack of variation only works for TW mobs. It appears that distance (melee vs "sweet spot") affects your r.atk as a %, rather than your overall damage. So, if you are hitting an XP mob for 200 at sweetspot, and 180 at melee ranger, I believe it doesn't necessarily mean "melee range = 90% damage" as it seemed before yesterday's patch.

[Xerlic]

My RNG is only 65 so I can't really roll with the big boys yet, but I did notice that when fighting Colibris last night (VT), I would do 125 damage per shot while using Coeurl Subs no matter where I stood. I did 125 per shot when I pulled at 24.9, when I meleed, and when I stood in the sweet spot between 10 and 12.

This is using Ebow + Scorpion Arrows. I'm too cheap to use Demons outside of Barrage/Sidewinder. I was /NIN with Hawkers+1/Fran and eating Coeurl Sub.

[Sonomaa]

My RNG is only 65 so I can't really roll with the big boys yet, but I did notice that when fighting Colibris last night (VT), I would do 125 damage per shot while using Coeurl Subs no matter where I stood. I did 125 per shot when I pulled at 24.9, when I meleed, and when I stood in the sweet spot between 10 and 12.

This is using Ebow + Scorpion Arrows. I'm too cheap to use Demons outside of Barrage/Sidewinder. I was /NIN with Hawkers+1/Fran and eating Coeurl Sub.

use elem arrows or at least bodkin, being cheap is one thing but scorps at level 65, wtfga

[Rag]

This was my first slugshot rng/war atk food+berserk+str/atk gear no brd

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/889/123tt6.jpg

+400 a shot thats half of our war averge ramapge damage
I wanted to obow+acids but there wasnt any acid at ah ;( so went with hellfire

[Po]

o.o What distance is that? Is that melee range?
Also what food and gear were you using? All in all that is fucking sex.
edit - Nvm on food and gear, I see the beginning of your post now.
But yea what is the distance?

[Rag]

o.o What distance is that? Is that melee range?
Also what food and gear were you using? All in all that is fucking sex.
edit - Nvm on food and gear, I see the beginning of your post now.
But yea what is the distance?

thats the funny part yes melee range lol

if i go back a bit i noticed 150-200damage more (damage become realy realy low when you hit that hard maybe reached cap or something?)

anyway i wasnt doin the weak crapy limbus (weak vs melee) was doin norml area no damage bouns and no fly mobs

heres a screen >.>

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/4492/222rf8.jpg

only thing im missing is osode for str/r.atk build rng T_T (sold mine for 80million last xmas lol)

Edit: btw 1 arrow from barrage didnt land well cuz mob died before it hit it i didnt expect to do 2k damage >.>;

[Ayn]

You mean this:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...difierslol.jpg

It's not only a sig. It's a public service.

[Eggs]

Someone on KI said this:

Before the update, I hit 318 at the sweet spot (8-9). After the update, I hit 318 at distance 1, distance 9 and distance 23. In other words, on TW mobs there is no longer any distance nerf.

Has this is been proven?

Yeah I said that. And yeah, it's true. You can go try it yourself. Use and E.bow and wooden arrows, and you'll hit everything there for 318, at any range. But it's only true for Too Weak mobs. It seems that however the distance nerf is now calculated makes you see a smaller nerf the closer you are to capped fSTR2 and pDIF.

[Rag]

Someone on KI said this:

Before the update, I hit 318 at the sweet spot (8-9). After the update, I hit 318 at distance 1, distance 9 and distance 23. In other words, on TW mobs there is no longer any distance nerf.

Has this is been proven?

Yeah I said that. And yeah, it's true. You can go try it yourself. Use and E.bow and wooden arrows, and you'll hit everything there for 318, at any range. But it's only true for Too Weak mobs. It seems that however the distance nerf is now calculated makes you see a smaller nerf the closer you are to capped fSTR2 and pDIF.

That explains why i was hitting hard even when attackin with melee range

Anyone fighted HNMS with rng? i would love to see how rng works now vs "hard stuff"

[Lordwafik]

Nerf RNG (again)

[Rag]

Nerf RNG (again)

Lol i dare SE to do that
Nerf a job twice (nerfs that hurts) and you get no more trust from players

Most players would just quit (already alot of people quited with last nerf Goin from hero to ZERO is crap lol)

Meriting time on rng orz

[Chips]

...would just quit (already alot of people quited...

Yep.


On topic: How has SAM/RNG been? Anyone try this out in an EXP PT yet?

[Raizins]

On Ix'Mnk tonight--

Without any food, /nin, and prelud/minuet, gun: I saw a difference of about 30 damage on each shot from standing out and melee.

2nd pop, with attack food and everthing the same from first, I saw no difference in regular shots when moving from melee, outside of melee, and a few more steps back.