Evoker's Gages

[Aodh]

Summoner's Bracers
Level: 72 Rare / Exclusive / Not NPC Sellable
Jobs: SMN
Defense: 15
* MP +25
* Summoning Magic Skill +10
* 'Blood Pact' Ability Delay -2
* Enhances Avatar Accuracy

VS.

Evoker's Gages
Level: 70 Rare / Exclusive
Jobs: SMN
Defense: 20
* Besieged: Leviathan perpetuation cost -2
* Leviathan: Attack Bonus

Sacrificing the Acc Bonus, the additional accuracy from SMN Skill, the -2sec BP timer AND 25MP for an attack bonus? Unless it's a very very very high bonus, these are useless and not worth even discussing the inventory space issue.

[Garret]

Because then they would need to carry around HQ Staves + Avatar Attack gloves & it would suck up more room.

On brd I carry all my staves (for threnodies) and instruments. So, that's a silly complaint.

Yeah, I've never heard a bard complain about space.

My point was other jobs have space issues, I don't know why smn should be special.

I'm not a Smn, just saying why they would complain.

[Xanatos-Siren]

Summoner's Bracers
VS.
Evoker's Gages
Sacrificing the Acc Bonus, the additional accuracy from SMN Skill, the -2sec BP timer AND 25MP for an attack bonus? Unless it's a very very very high bonus, these are useless and not worth even discussing the inventory space issue.

Leviathan naturaly has very high accuracy.
The only times u would use Leviathan over garuda is when accuracy is the issue like on Gods where Garuda will predator claws for like 100 damage regardless of merits and equip. While spinning dive is like 800. This is the situation the extra attack is useful.

Yes if you’re fighting some thing like one of the cop wyrms or a very low evasion monster Garuda is the way to go.

[Minions]

Summoner's Bracers
VS.
Evoker's Gages
Sacrificing the Acc Bonus, the additional accuracy from SMN Skill, the -2sec BP timer AND 25MP for an attack bonus? Unless it's a very very very high bonus, these are useless and not worth even discussing the inventory space issue.

Leviathan naturaly has very high accuracy.
The only times u would use Leviathan over garuda is when accuracy is the issue like on Gods where Garuda will predator claws for like 100 damage regardless of merits and equip. While spinning dive is like 800. This is the situation the extra attack is useful.

Yes if you’re fighting some thing like one of the cop wyrms or a very low evasion monster Garuda is the way to go.

Even on wyrms doesnt the dmg over all average out? Garuda vs Levi? Anyone really tried parsing the two?

[Aodh]

Leviathan naturaly has very high accuracy.
The only times u would use Leviathan over garuda is when accuracy is the issue like on Gods where Garuda will predator claws for like 100 damage regardless of merits and equip. While spinning dive is like 800. This is the situation the extra attack is useful.

Yes if you’re fighting some thing like one of the cop wyrms or a very low evasion monster Garuda is the way to go.

Leviathan has no higher accuracy than any other avatar. Generally the 1 hit BPs seem hit more often compared to the multi-hit BPs, but that shouldn't be an assumption that one avatars accuracy is actually better or worse than another's. The fact is no matter what the avatar's actually accuracy is, you're taking off 10 skill and an Acc. Bonus which that attack bonus would need to overcome.

[Xanatos-Siren]

Even on wyrms doesnt the dmg over all average out? Garuda vs Levi? Anyone really tried parsing the two?

I never had the chance to parse it, but it appears that
Garuda does about 100~200 more damage then leviathan on wyrms per blood pact.

(if you take into account that the same smn is doing bolth predator claws and spining dive with the same equip on.)

[Aodh]

Even on wyrms doesnt the dmg over all average out? Garuda vs Levi? Anyone really tried parsing the two?

Gardua's average and critical hits are higher than Levithan's on Wyrms. But Leviathan is more consistant. Garuda is usually 300-500 regular hits, with crits that go over 1k (rare, but it has happened.) Leviathan usually is around 350-400 average and 800-900 criticals. Haven't tried after the patch, but we'll see how it works on my next Tiamat. People are discrediting the +Crit bonus on AFv2 body, I hardly ever see it mentioned.

[Rehont]

I dont think is so much that leviathan is more accurate than the fact that spinning dive is one hit (therefore hit or miss) instead of garuda (3-hit predator claws) that has 3 hits that could miss. 1 hit = crap damage.

[Khamsin]

Leviathan has no higher accuracy than any other avatar. Generally the 1 hit BPs seem hit more often compared to the multi-hit BPs, but that shouldn't be an assumption that one avatars accuracy is actually better or worse than another's.

Actually, there is very good reason to believe a 1-hit BP such as Spinning Dive actually has a higher accuracy than a 3-hit BP like Predator Claws.

Two reasons, actually.

1) In any given Predator Claw (set of 3 hits), its fairly common to miss at least one of those hits. However, if you were to do 3x the number of Spinning Dives (1 hit) as Predator Claws, thereby making the same number of attempts to hit, you would not miss nearly so many Spinning Dives compared to the times you missed one of the three hits of a Predator Claws. Try it.

2) Multihit WS have a different to-hit% chance per hit than a single hit WS. This can also be observed by comparing Rampage to, say, Smash Axe. If you compare N number of Rampages to 5xN number of Smash Axes, you will miss at least one hit in a Rampage far more often than you miss a Smash Axe. Granted, there's nothing proving that Blood Pacts work like Weapon Skills, but the precedent is there.