The Angry American

[archibaldcrane]

Yay research!

Q. Why is Spanish used in the show?

A. Val: Educators believe that introducing a second language to a child before the age of 6 or 7 is an important factor in his/her ability to achieve fluency. For many of our preschool viewers, Dora is their first encounter with a foreign language. As such, the show might teach them a little Spanish and make them curious and interested in learning more, or simply make them aware of and comfortable with foreign languages. For our Spanish-speaking preschool viewers, seeing Dora use Spanish might encourage them to take pride in being bilingual.

Erm, I mean, DEY TOOK OUR JORBS!

[Eddie]

DER KE DER

[Neosutra]

Religion is to the South as Illegal Immigration is to the MidWest.

Reason, Logic, Sanity, and plain intelligence are thrown out the window for the safe feelings of intolerance, hatred, and fear of other cultures.

Policticians in the MidWest use this topic to invoke nothing more then fear votes out of the uneducated the same way religion is used in every damn Southern State electoriate.

Yes we have a problem in this country with immigration, but the problem is not that they are here, but that the process to identify, nationalize, and train these people to be productive americans is vastly innefficient and leaves way to either no hope of ever getting to america or going there by non conventional methods.

I hate Bush with a passion, but perhaps Guest Worker programs is one of the first steps to protecting these workers under our civil laws and ensuring each of these workers are taxed. The only problem is that the Guest Worker program will most likely never pass and was only brought up to appease the growing movement to recognize the fellow AMERICANS for what they do for our country.

To the original poster:

I am dissapointed in your inability to see the bigger picture in such an bloated political issue. An an army sgt you should be more attuned to the individuals who suffer from such a devastating social system. Or do you only fight for the people you agree with when you go to war?

I am an athiest liberal, but i serve in the army as well, and I never once beleived i was fighting for just other athiest liberals. When my troops and I go to combat, we do our duty for every person in america, regardless of what they believe or where they hail from. Remember that you made an oath to the constitution, and by that you swore to a set of values that state all men are created equal, not just all white men who speak english. Our country is a melting pot, jump in and learn, or drown in the societal evolution that has kept us strong.

[Demosthenes11]

It is not hate, or intolerance, or any of that bullshit. We have listed why we feel illegal immigration is a threat to our society, yet some of you still use the blanket statement of hate. We don't hate spanish speakers, but we do hate the fact we are possibly being forced to adapt to them (who are in this country illegally) instead of them being forced to adapt to us. Form an intelligent argument please

[Neosutra]

It is not hate, or intolerance, or any of that bullshit. We have listed why we feel illegal immigration is a threat to our society, yet some of you still use the blanket statement of hate. We don't hate spanish speakers, but we do hate the fact we are possibly being forced to adapt to them (who are in this country illegally) instead of them being forced to adapt to us. Form an intelligent argument please

Damn, got me there, "Your argument is stupid, mine is right". Where did you learn to debate, the 5th grade?

Anyways. As i stated, the problem is the process in which nationalization occurs for these individuals, which makes it virtually impossible for them to come over here legitemately.

So let me break it down for you:

You posted with some rather shaky facts of why you are a racist redneck(whoops, i mean you think they are draining society), and I responded with pointing the cause of the negative effects and possible solutions.

There, i called you a name, broke the argument down, and displayed the conclussion, are you capable of following the argument yet, or do I need to sound it out phonetically to you?

[Demosthenes11]

It is not hate, or intolerance, or any of that bullshit. We have listed why we feel illegal immigration is a threat to our society, yet some of you still use the blanket statement of hate. We don't hate spanish speakers, but we do hate the fact we are possibly being forced to adapt to them (who are in this country illegally) instead of them being forced to adapt to us. Form an intelligent argument please

Damn, got me there, "Your argument is stupid, mine is right". Where did you learn to debate, the 5th grade?

Anyways. As i stated, the problem is the process in which nationalization occurs for these individuals, which makes it virtually impossible for them to come over here legitemately.

So let me break it down for you:

You posted with some rather shaky facts of why you are a racist redneck(whoops, i mean you think they are draining society), and I responded with pointing the cause of the negative effects and possible solutions.

There, i called you a name, broke the argument down, and displayed the conclussion, are you capable of following the argument yet, or do I need to sound it out phonetically to you?

Nationalization is suddenly the job of the country in which the illegal immigrant illegally comes to? You call that sensitivity, I call that complete suicide as a country. It is not our job to assimilate these people into society. It is America's job to assimilate the people that are here legitimately. You don't move to Germany knowing jack shit, then look around wondering where the government is to assimilate you. Before you move there, you apply for immigration papers, you learn the fucking language, and you learn about their culture.

Lumping immigration and illegal immigration is something the media here has done far too long. Immigration is great and improves a country, illegal immigration is just self-destruction

[Neosutra]

It is not hate, or intolerance, or any of that bullshit. We have listed why we feel illegal immigration is a threat to our society, yet some of you still use the blanket statement of hate. We don't hate spanish speakers, but we do hate the fact we are possibly being forced to adapt to them (who are in this country illegally) instead of them being forced to adapt to us. Form an intelligent argument please

Damn, got me there, "Your argument is stupid, mine is right". Where did you learn to debate, the 5th grade?

Anyways. As i stated, the problem is the process in which nationalization occurs for these individuals, which makes it virtually impossible for them to come over here legitemately.

So let me break it down for you:

You posted with some rather shaky facts of why you are a racist redneck(whoops, i mean you think they are draining society), and I responded with pointing the cause of the negative effects and possible solutions.

There, i called you a name, broke the argument down, and displayed the conclussion, are you capable of following the argument yet, or do I need to sound it out phonetically to you?

Nationalization is suddenly the job of the country in which the illegal immigrant illegally comes to? You call that sensitivity, I call that complete suicide as a country. It is not our job to assimilate these people into society. It is America's job to assimilate the people that are here legitimately. You don't move to Germany knowing jack shit, then look around wondering where the government is to assimilate you. Before you move there, you apply for immigration papers, you learn the fucking language, and you learn about their culture.

Lumping immigration and illegal immigration is something the media here has done far too long. Immigration is great and improves a country, illegal immigration is just self-destruction

Your right, Germany has no process in which i could apply for some sort of pass, lets call it a Visa for shits and giggles, and come to their country legaly. Germany has no nationalization board that reviews citizens for nationalization, they simply let anyone who wants to come do it themselves.

Your right, lets let the immigrants do the work! Those dirty wet backs!! Make them inproccess themselves to take the burden off us!.

Wait...

Perhaps it would be better for our country to decide who we let in...

Your failing logic is unimpressive. Again i say, the problem is the system in which our government does this nationalization. Please read/think/breathe before you post again because debating with pure meandering gets old.

[Demosthenes11]

Again i say, the problem is the system in which our government does this nationalization.

Not sure at all if this is what you mean, but the immigration system needs to be reformed. Does this mean let everyone in because it takes too long for immigration papers and just turn a blinded eye? fuck no

It is the immigrants job to assimilate into the new culture. The purpose of my example of Germany was not Germany itself, but the idea of a new land. I thought you would figure that out but I guess not. The point is, you do not go to a new land and do nothing to assimilate with them, nor do you wait for them to come to you. It is solely the immigrants job to learn about America's borders, language, and culture, not America's job to teach them

[Neosutra]

Again i say, the problem is the system in which our government does this nationalization.

Not sure at all if this is what you mean, but the immigration system needs to be reformed. Does this mean let everyone in because it takes too long for immigration papers and just turn a blinded eye? fuck no

It is the immigrants job to assimilate into the new culture. The purpose of my example of Germany was not Germany itself, but the idea of a new land. I thought you would figure that out but I guess not. The point is, you do not go to a new land and do nothing to assimilate with them, nor do you wait for them to come to you. It is solely the immigrants job to learn about America's borders, language, and culture, not America's job to teach them

So you took your invalid rational on illegal immigration and covered it with a facade of immigrants inability to adapt?

I havent met an immigrant yet that expects americans to speak english. I havent met an immigrant yet that doesnt attempt to assimilate into our society.
I never once said anything endorsing immigrants not assimilating into US culture, but that wasnt the debate was it, the debate you were holding was illegal immigration, which you dont seem to have any foundation in. Do you even know what we are debating about?

[Demosthenes11]

I did got on a bit of a tangent, but the fact remains the same, why should we go out of our way to nationalize citizens that have no right to be here?

Immigration is a privilage, not a right

[Jerseyprophet]

In what language do I have to repeat myself in before will listen to me say this?

I am not upset at her learning another language, that is something I encourage (spanish included). I was upset at the idea of something (that I wasn't sure of wether I was overreading things) - which was that it appeared that even childrens cartoons are incorporating spanish, as everything else is in the country, because of an immigration control problem. I didnt say Dora or the spanish language will destroy my child's mind. I said I wouldnt stand for tolerance and defeat - if that was the case.

In brief, and very brief response to the individual that uses the bullshit racist card (and being military police do you think it's something new to be thrown at me?) - my daughter is half and half. She is not white, nor my wife. Im very racist indeed, sir, because I didn't like the possibility of hidden agendas in cartoons that DO influence developing minds.

What part of this do you not understand? I will not repeat myself again.

[Correction]

It is not hate, or intolerance, or any of that bullshit. We have listed why we feel illegal immigration is a threat to our society, yet some of you still use the blanket statement of hate. We don't hate spanish speakers, but we do hate the fact we are possibly being forced to adapt to them (who are in this country illegally) instead of them being forced to adapt to us. Form an intelligent argument please

Trufact: The difference between an illegal immigrant and a legal immigrant has nothing to do with that immigrant's willingness to assimilate to the local culture of the country they adopt. The difference is wholly a legal issue. One crossed legally via borders, signed forms, acquired visas, etc. The other one jumped a fence, or was smuggled in the back of some van or truck.

You can be equally forced by legal immigrants to swallow some spanish as you seem to think you are by the illegals. Being an illegal immigrant doesn't mean you speak English any worse than legal immigrants, either.

Really not sure why the points are so easily confused by the anti-illegal immigration movement, unless there is some irrational hatred that lies underneath.

And...

lol, it's a tv show. Remember what George Carlin said about tvs? They have two knobs. One changes the channel. The other one turns down the volume.

[Jerseyprophet]

ol, it's a tv show. Remember what George Carlin said about tvs? They have two knobs. One changes the channel. The other one turns down the volume.

Bury your head in the sand all your life. Or fight back, the choice ultimately is yours. Stand for nothing and you'll fall for anything. I don't like the implications that I'm not a good parent because I dont agree with a television show. You're damn right I'd turn it off if I didnt like it's impact on my child's mind - but that doesnt mean I cant discuss the level of disgust I still have for it.

Half of you people critiqing my parenting, are fucking virgins, let alone have ever been a parent.

I know the bleeding heart PC democrats that have CNN's opinion IV'd into their blood about everything from Bush to loving every single person in every PC way we can will never, ever see the side of the debate I've taken. I've been dealing with those people since I graduated boot camp and have to tolerate some snot nosed college student who decided I must want to hear his incredible insight in to why we shouldn't be in Iraq (notice that he says "we"). It's a tangent I'm quickly going down, so I'll stop. The bottom line is that illegal immigrants ARE coming in to my country in rapid numbers, and the business men that want cheap janitors are forcing their employees to play charades to get them to understand "clean the fucking bathroom" - knowing damn well they couldn't pass the test for citizenship without being to say a damn word in English. They don't learn the native language, which is not truely English I know, but it's similiar, it's OUR language - because they DO NOT HAVE TO. That is what I have a problem with.

When I saw Dora speaking and teaching my child spanish words in the show, it was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. I was, granted angrily in the heat of the moment, ASKING the opinion of you guys if you felt I was looking too much in to it and overreacting about the show.

It's a debate people. It's a discussion.

[Demosthenes11]

Really not sure why the points are so easily confused by the anti-illegal immigration movement, unless there is some irrational hatred that lies underneath.

You don't understand why people are angry that tens of millions of people are in this country, undocumented, and have been proven to cost more money than they generate, not to mention they are growing in number everyday?

And you are right about your point about legal/illegals, but I feel, especially in my community, legal immigrants assimilate much easier/faster than illegals. Legals just seem to be a lot more eager to assimilate than illegals.

[zoobernut]

Really not sure why the points are so easily confused by the anti-illegal immigration movement, unless there is some irrational hatred that lies underneath.

You don't understand why people are angry that tens of millions of people are in this country, undocumented, and have been proven to cost more money than they generate, not to mention they are growing in number everyday?

And you are right about your point about legal/illegals, but I feel, especially in my community, legal immigrants assimilate much easier/faster than illegals. Legals just seem to be a lot more eager to assimilate than illegals.

don't say something has been proven without providing the proof. in doing just a small amount of research i have seen studies that swing the numbers both ways depending on who is presenting them and what agenda they want to push. archibald was kind enough at least to provide us with some evidence.

[Fuuko]

Really not sure why the points are so easily confused by the anti-illegal immigration movement, unless there is some irrational hatred that lies underneath.

You don't understand why people are angry that tens of millions of people are in this country, undocumented, and have been proven to cost more money than they generate, not to mention they are growing in number everyday?

And you are right about your point about legal/illegals, but I feel, especially in my community, legal immigrants assimilate much easier/faster than illegals. Legals just seem to be a lot more eager to assimilate than illegals.

don't say something has been proven without providing the proof. in doing just a small amount of research i have seen studies that swing the numbers both ways depending on who is presenting them and what agenda they want to push. archibald was kind enough at least to provide us with some evidence.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national ... -6766r.htm
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?p ... study_html
http://newsinitiative.org/story/2006/08 ... iption_for

[Demosthenes11]

Rather difficult to quote books on the internet as well, but ever read any books regarding this kind of stuff? They overwhelmingly give statistics of all the negatives of illegal immigration. Hell, just do a google search

[Stilgar]

Agriculture is already subsidized by the government

That's hardly the case. The government barely subsidizes agriculture since there are so many agricultural institutions in the country. That's why there are many, many farmers who are struggling, because there are so many sellers and competition.

That's why most agriculture is really cheap. Price ceilings aren't exactly neccessary. Although it has a little bit to do with it.

No, Demosthenes is correct. Agriculture is HEAVILY subsidised by the US government. This is one of the EU's biggest gripes with the US. You seem to think that this means farmers should be better off; the reason they aren't is because subsidising agriculture != giving money to farmers. What the government does is protect US agriculture from that of the outside world.

[Stilgar]

They don't learn the native language, which is not truely English I know, but it's similiar, it's OUR language - because they DO NOT HAVE TO. That is what I have a problem with.

You seem to think that lines on a map have some influence on the real world where language is concerned. They don't. People learn the language(s) of the places where they spend the majority of their lives, because they do have to.

I think what you are beginning to realize, and mistaking for some sort of invasion of our nation, is that parts of the US are speaking Spanish now as much as they are English. They aren't doing it to flaunt their Mexicanness or to subvert the US government--they're just speaking the language of their surroundings. If those people dealt with English-speaking Americans more, then of course they'd learn and speak much more English. But the thing is, that first-generation immigrants almost never fully integrate.

[Correction]

I'm going to do something slightly annoying and split the quote, but I'm trying to highlight what I see as the confusion of two entirely separate points you are joining and claiming as the source of all your dusgust.

The bottom line is that illegal immigrants ARE coming in to my country in rapid numbers, and the business men that want cheap janitors

This is not the point I'm disagreeing with. Yes, illegal immigration is a big problem and it's bad for all sides of the equation.

But.

are forcing their employees to play charades to get them to understand "clean the fucking bathroom" - knowing damn well they couldn't pass the test for citizenship without being to say a damn word in English. They don't learn the native language

You haven't sufficiently demonstrated that legal immigrants are better at this. In a lot of cases, a fresh legal immigrant in the same position would struggle just as much with English and infuriate you just the same. This leads me to believe that you'd rather see a naturally-born citizen in the position than any kind of immigrant in the first place. This is the kind of thinking I wish you'd reconsider before passing it along to future generations.

And I truly doubt most high school graduates, regardless of where they came from, could pass the American Citizenship test.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/blinstst.htm

Try it. Without google. I fucking dare you.