Spell Interruption Rate: Theory and Modeling

[Elmer the Pointy]

This comes out of the NIN section of this guide. It talks about how to time Utsusemi so you don't get interrupted.

http://www.cactuarsensei.com/ffxivid/splintrpt.JPG

Synopsis (stuff we already know + spell interrupt hint):

Within Utsusemi, Ni takes priority over Ichi. In other words, you can go Ichi -> Ichi, Ichi -> Ni, or Ni -> Ni. But if the effect of Ni is on, you need to cancel it before casting Ichi. Also, Ichi's spell casting time is longer and can be interrupted by an enemy attack. To prevent this, time it so the enemy hits during 0%-20% or 80%-100%. It's best to read the enemy's attacks and take the hit as you begin to cast.

(O)Memorize the times when you can't be interrupted

and then the little chart that shows 0-20 and 80-100 is uninterruptible.

[Seditedi]

iv had the same thing happen with moves like goblin rush while casting ichi.
However, I've had some bazaar things interupt my castings.
While on blm, I would occasionaly get interupted just from gear swap macros. I havn't heard of many other ppl have this happened, but my char would actually move to the side from just a gear swap and interupt castings. One of the most bazaar things I have seen

ITS SPELLED BIZZARE YOU 11 YEAR OLD ILLITERATE FUCK.

BAZAAR IS WHAT YOU DO TO SELL STUFF WHEN YOURE AFK, BIZZARE IS A SYNONYM OF WEIRD. THEY DONT EVEN SOUND THE SAME, YOU DUMB FUCK.



jesus christ, how do ppl make such absurd typo's that I cant qualify them as typos ??

jesus christ, how do people feel when they try to correct someone and they're wrong themselves?

http://www.answers.com/bizarre&r=67

lololol, back on topic, anyone find spell interruption merits to be useful in countering interrupts?

[Demitrius]

I'm 99% sure that your Ninjutsu skill (or whatever school you're casting) is the primary modifier of spell interrupt rate, not level. It's easy to see; have a NIN/WAR get interrupted during Ichi, then have a WAR/NIN do the same. WAR/NIN will always get interrupted, NIN/WAR with capped skill rarely. On my RDM I can cast through Dynamis mob hits a lot of the time with ~335 Enfeebling skill, which is a huge perk for raising your skill as much as possible.

When I was using the Nikkariaoe, I could get smacked right in the middle of a cast period by an IT and occasionally not be interrupted. I would be about 90% sure that it subtracts 25% from your chance to be interrupted.

My real question would be whether it drops it by a flat 25% (i.e. game checks your Ninjutsu skill vs. mob weapon skill, decides you have an 80% chance to be interrupted, cuts 25% off leaving you with a 55% chance)

or

it subtracts 25% of what your current chance to be interrupted would be (i.e. game checks, you have an 80% chance to be interupted, game cuts that by 25% of itself, leaving you with 60% chance of interrupt).

[Retrieving/C.D/Searain]

One of the most bazaar things I have seen

ITS SPELLED BIZZARE YOU 11 YEAR OLD ILLITERATE FUCK.

BAZAAR IS WHAT YOU DO TO SELL STUFF WHEN YOURE AFK, BIZZARE IS A SYNONYM OF WEIRD. THEY DONT EVEN SOUND THE SAME, YOU DUMB FUCK.



jesus christ, how do ppl make such absurd typo's that I cant qualify them as typos ??

lol, what a fag.

http://stores.musictoday.com/store/p...Fid=817&sfid=7

Can't a PLD in red HP, with Rampart on and Iron Will or w/e upgrades capped get -100% spellcasting interr. rate anyway? Not like you'd ever need that on PLD/WAR or PLD/NIN unless you're solo tanking Cerberus or Hydra I guess, someone should set up a test though, it'd be interesting.

Anyhow I've always thought that more -Spellcasting Int. Rate equals a shortened "middle" Utsusemi window, the one between 20% and 80%, where the mob can hit and stop your casting, therefore that would give you more room to start the casting avoiding interruptions. When I had merits in it and I was using Woodvilles, in combination with a few items in macro (like Willpower Torque) it was quite noticeable, but definately not worth giving up on Enmity/Crits merits, Juggernaut or Maneater.

From my experience mob's level and the strenght of the hits don't affect in any way the interruption rate, I could get interrupted easily by an EP mob if I'm fooling around but cast Ichi through Cerberu's Triple attack just fine, it's just a matter of playing skill, experience and adaptation to the current lag.

I'm 99% sure that your Ninjutsu skill (or whatever school you're casting) is the primary modifier of spell interrupt rate, not level. It's easy to see; have a NIN/WAR get interrupted during Ichi, then have a WAR/NIN do the same. WAR/NIN will always get interrupted, NIN/WAR with capped skill rarely.

Bah, I have 114 (?) skill on my War/Nin and still cast through a lot of stuff just like my usual Ninja tanking partners; ninjutsu skill may help but it doesn't make an incredible difference. In fact you get interrupted quite a bit on PLD if you don't pay attention even with Healing magic skill and Divine capped or above 200, on cures and Flash (seems weird but it happens sometimes).

[Chips]

jesus christ, how do people feel when they try to correct someone and they're wrong themselves?

Like an ass.

[Ithorien]

This comes out of the NIN section of this guide. It talks about how to time Utsusemi so you don't get interrupted.

http://www.cactuarsensei.com/ffxivid/splintrpt.JPG

Synopsis (stuff we already know + spell interrupt hint):

Within Utsusemi, Ni takes priority over Ichi. In other words, you can go Ichi -> Ichi, Ichi -> Ni, or Ni -> Ni. But if the effect of Ni is on, you need to cancel it before casting Ichi. Also, Ichi's spell casting time is longer and can be interrupted by an enemy attack. To prevent this, time it so the enemy hits during 0%-20% or 80%-100%. It's best to read the enemy's attacks and take the hit as you begin to cast.

(O)Memorize the times when you can't be interrupted

and then the little chart that shows 0-20 and 80-100 is uninterruptible.

I've soloed NIN from 19->34, and that's basically what I always went off of. Got into a habit of casting Ichi right before attack, and would know if I'll get interrupted or not by going with the "before 20" mark. I would swap in the spell interruption torque and had a Nikka to use, and noticed that the 30% extra helped quite a lot.

[Kyreth]

From my experience mob's level and the strenght of the hits don't affect in any way the interruption rate, I could get interrupted easily by an EP mob if I'm fooling around but cast Ichi through Cerberu's Triple attack just fine, it's just a matter of playing skill, experience and adaptation to the current lag.

Just as a note, multiple attacks check for interruption on the beginning of the initial strike if they're all part of a single attack round. So if a mob goes and triple or double attacks (or 1-2's with H2H like a monk) it'll check the timer on the first swing and base interruption off when that began, rather than when the other two hits occur- even if they're inside the interruption window.

[genome]

Another note, since people mentioned they noticed shield blocks seem to lower their chance of being interrupted, as monk/nin I notice that a LOT with guarding (one of the best features of it imo).

Monks have almost no interrupt gear and very low ninjutsu skill so it's easier to see the difference from an unguarded hit. Of course part of it could be just due to the very big damage reduction from guard, but I get the impression there's much more to it, because I have guarded and still got to finish casting utsu:ichi quite a lot while I have been plain interrupted by even weak attacks almost every time in comparison. It would be a huge pain to try to test this rigorously though unfortunately..

[Elesirdur]

For all you career PLDs out there...
Have you noticed at all if blocking an attack with your shield will increase your chance for getting the spell off?
I rarely get hit on BST, and if I'm lolmeleeWHMing I sub /nin for dual-wield anyways - So I don't really know. And I can't test it well myself because of a gimpy Shield skill and I will get 2 shotted by anything significant.

From my long PLD experience I think that's just in relation to the damage taken calculations. Therefore, you're more likely to get interrupted while blocking with a Buckler-type shield (only 20-25% dmg reduction) than a Tower-type shield (~80% dmg reduction).

Pre-shield patch I don't think one would get interrupted at all since the shield blocked 100% of the incomming physical damage. If there was an extra magical effect along with it then that'll still go through and could interrupt, but otherwise you were safe.

[Chupunpupun]

It's easy to time the mobs attack when they don't have slow on but once slow is applied it throws off your rhythm. That's what keeps happening to me the different strenght of slow always makes me start casting Ichi either 1 sec too slow or 1 sec too fast.....fudge.

[Cleveland]

This is what I love....

Cleveland starts casting Utsusemi:Ichi.
The Spongilla Fly hits Cleveland for 120 dmg.
Cleveland's casting is interrupted.
Cleveland starts casting Utsusemi:Ichi.
The Spongilla Fly hits Cleveland for 120 dmg.
Cleveland's casting is interrupted.
Cleveland starts casting Utsusemi:Ichi.
The Spongilla Fly hits Cleveland for 120 dmg.
Cleveland's casting is interrupted.
Cleveland starts casting Utsusemi:Ichi.
The Spongilla Fly hits Cleveland for 120 dmg.
Cleveland's casting is interrupted.
Cleveland starts casting Utsusemi:Ichi.
The Spongilla Fly hits Cleveland for 120 dmg.
Cleveland's casting is interrupted.
Cleveland starts casting Utsusemi:Ichi.
The Spongilla Fly hits Cleveland for 120 dmg.
Cleveland's casting is interrupted.
Cleveland starts casting Utsusemi:Ichi.
Cleveland gains the effect of Copy Image
The Spongilla Fly misses Cleveland.
The Spongilla Fly misses Cleveland.
The Spongilla Fly misses Cleveland.
The Spongilla Fly misses Cleveland.

FFXI Ninja Rule #32: Your Evasion Skill will be reduced to 0 when casting Utsusemi: Ichi. Once casted, your Evasion Skill will return to normal, with a bonus of +50.

[Slott]

about the location thing mentioned before, start and end spot for the spell cast are all that are checked for interrupts while moving/being moved.

Everquest did the same thing: To test it, start in a corner, start casting an extremely long spell like a teleport, run around, end back at corner, spell goes off

[Cat]

Crap which happens to ninjas far too often in meripo.

Tbh, i just bloodtank my way till :ni if i get interrupted on an ichi cast. Not worth the hassle normally -.-

[Okuza]

I noticed the 20% non-interrupt aspect waay back shortly after release when I first leveled nin up to 40. I recall being pretty happy when I figured it out -- was fighting beetles in Sauromugue Champaign. It's hard to do with lag, but I got good enough at it to maybe recast 2/3-3/4 of my :ichis through hits. Pretty scary for a newbie to do -- to not flinch and insta-cast :ichi, but instead to wait and know you're gonna get hit and just rely on the equally newbie whm in party to heal you through it.

I've often wondered if the +% spell interruption items refered to increasing the front&back non-interrupt window and not an outright chance to not be interrupted in the middle. They obviously don't do anything at all to change the actual interrupt% when you get hit in the middle.

[Suiram]

I've often wondered if the +% spell interruption items refered to increasing the front&back non-interrupt window and not an outright chance to not be interrupted in the middle. They obviously don't do anything at all to change the actual interrupt% when you get hit in the middle.

Again, as Kaylia and I and someone else said, there is no real 'front&back non-interrupt window', it's just an effective one you experience due to server lag on the one end, and the fact that spells fire well before 100% on the other end. Being aware of it has its practical application, similar to how you run past the fast-spinning zdeis in sea when they're facing out towards you to avoid aggro, but it's not a real aspect of spellcasting in the sense that it would be something modified by gear.

[cassiraa]

It's good to note, just because nobody else has yet, that the Interruption check of the combat cycle is performed the very instant that the mob begins their attack animation on your screen.

It's very possible to start casting :Ni right as the orc or whatever begins to pull back to begin its attack, And be hit twice at 40% and 50%, with no chance of interruption. Because the interruption 'check point' has passed.

ITS SPELLED BIZZARE YOU 11 YEAR OLD ILLITERATE FUCK.

Excuse me, good sir. I believe you meant "it's" as in it is. not its.

[Okuza]

Unfortunately, lag outright fails to describe the 20% behavior. If you're going to evaluate this emotionally, you might as well skip reading here and just believe it's lag. It's absolutely not lag, but argument at the emotional level here is pointless.

Let's examine the data.

Actual pings to server for me: 25ms. Note that the client S/R numbers are not ping numbers -- they're not latency, they're bandwidth. You have to use a real ping tool or a sniffer to get the actual network latency.

Interrupts: never in the first or last 20% -- sometimes in the middle. Rarely versus low level, increasing with higher /checks. The 20% number is definitely subject to observational error. I could maybe believe 15%. 10% is too small. 25% is too big.

First check: does latency cover the observed window? 4000ms for :ichi. 15% (worst cast) is 600ms. 600ms is not less than 25ms. Lag can't be stretched to cover either window no matter how you cut it.

Second check: back-20 is really lag argues that "the server thinks you're done casting." Ok, let's assume this is true. If it's true, then :ichi just put blinks up. If blinks are up, how did you get hit? You must be arguing that the hit is coming in the very small server-side only lag between registering cast-complete and blinks-up. I doubt that window is more than 1ms. That's a pretty damn small window for me to be able to regularly time my recasts. I do appreciate the implied compliment to my skill, but I'm really not that good. ^~

Third check: front-20 is really lag argues that "the server doesn't know you're casting yet". Server hits you then sends the message. You cast while the message is "on the wire" flying towards you, but not displayed yet; ie. the messages cross. This is certainly something that happens. However, the time "out of sync" isn't enough to explain the full interrupt-free window. 25ms out and back is 50ms of potential obversation error, not 600~800ms. Also, chat messages are all sent by the server. You see "you get hit" followed by "you cast" when it's lag. You see "you cast" followed by "you get hit" when it's in the 20%. The chat shows the latter quite often for me -- the former only sometimes.

Fourth check: hit rate is about 2000-3000ms per swing from a beetle. Utsu:ichi is always 4000ms. Lag does not change those windows in the slightest. It just moves the window around. So, while lag can maybe account for a slight inconsistently reported single hit -- it can't explain why two hits (front&back) never interrupt. OTH, 20% front and back on :ichi is 1600ms. That reduces the effective interrupt window to 2400ms. 2400ms is definitely small enough to wedge an :ichi cast between hits if you're both careful and lucky. It's not enough to do it easily or every time, but even someone like me stands a good chance on it.

--

For those that skipped the explanations and just want a pithy ZAM phrase: only an idiot could stretch 50ms of lag into a 1600ms observed interrupt-free window. Lag doesn't make wedging an :ichi easier, it makes it harder.

[Zalius]

AFTER CAREFULLY EXAMINING THE INFORMATION PERTAINING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THIS THREAD, I HAVE COME TO THIS CONCLUSION.



Spell Int. Down blows

[Alistaire]

whm/nin:

main/sub Eremite's Wand x2 = -50%
feet Healer's Duckbills = -20% (or +1 = -25%)
hat Nashira Turban = -10%
waist Druid's Rope = -10%
l.ear Magnetic Earring = -8%
hands Sadhu Cuffs (new) = -5%
neck Willpower Torque = -5%

For a grand total of -108% spell interrupt. -113% with the af+1

I think we can safely and sanely deduce that a whm/nin in this gear running around (and not ending up at the spot he started casting) is still going to get interrupted.

So it's definitely not a straight 0-100% scale.

[Plow]

This is what I love....

FFXI Ninja Rule #32: Your Evasion Skill will be reduced to 0 when casting Utsusemi: Ichi. Once casted, your Evasion Skill will return to normal, with a bonus of +50.

Don't forget, if you get a little cocky and go for the "oh it's gonna take a shadow off my ni, I can hit up ichi without canceling," your evasion and parrying skills rise by 300+