Samurai as a tank

[Sidanoir]

DRK/NIN can tank big stuff.....

BRD/NIN can tank big stuff....

These two jobs have one thing in common, they both can generate massive hate...something SAM/NIN or THF/NIN etc. etc. can't

Did you even read my post? I never suggested subbing Ninja.

Did you even read my reply related to your topic? This has already steered off course

[Chips]

No one here is talking about /NIN for the SAM tanking. We're talking about SAM/DRK, who is able to blink 3-5 off HNMs (I don't know how many exactly), and with the help of stun, giving him a second or two more to let Third Eye's recast become availible again.

[tylerz]

i have xp with sam/war (add mnk, sam, war, drg, whm, brd so no real tank), and rlly SAM isn't a reliable tank >_>

thied eyes with seigan is cool but you will get hits, sometime thierd eyes absorb 3-4 attack other time only one :/

Utsu in rlly not as random, with marcx2/haste/gear you can get Ni down to 22 and Ichi to 15 sec recast.

Utsu > thierd eyes still in my book.

Sam got hasso tough STR+10 boost with accuracy and few attack speed, that's the shit, SAM is a DD job and that's a cool DD boost, i see Seigan and thierd eyes boost more for solo/duo propose :Q Suck tough when using Hasso you can't keep thierd eyes 1 min :/ i usually try to weapon skill when thierd eyes is ready so i can only ws 30sec each min with this update

[Sidanoir]

The biggest problem with Third Eye as an Utsusemi substitute is that it is a Job Ability, and March nor Haste or any Haste gear will not speed up its recast..

You can push really low timers on Utsusemi Ichi and Ni I think like 12/20secs? I forgot what the ultimate floor is...Third Eye cant get that low.

Marchx2 + Haste can make any /NIN job a viable tank..assuming they can hold hate... lol

Something like Cerberus or Hydra is capable of raping your shadows even with haste/march and leaving you without recast...

What do you think a SAM/DRK would tank an elegied Fafnir?.. with Slow II and Para II on it?

[Chips]

Stun is able to hold hate pretty well.

So is Raptor Mazurka.

If you think thats what enables nins to sub drk and brd, you are a retard. Why doesnt anyone on the paladin bus sub bard or drk while were at it(sarcasm)

Okay, big boy. Why else would anyone sub Bard?

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

You do realize Seigan kills Stun recast right?

[Alastaire]

You do realize Seigan kills Stun recast right?

Haha, honestly, it's a point I didn't consider. I still think SAM/WAR would be viable, but, yeah, there goes most of my main points.

[Sidanoir]

I hope people also realize..the hate you get from Stun is much smaller when your resisted.....which is going to happen on lots of HNMs....not all though.....


If Third Eye is anything like Utsusemi for multi-shadow AOEs....then the level of the mob most likely will determine how many Third-Eye blinks you will lose or whatever.....it has some random factor too it...

Ive seen Body Slam take 1 shadow...or take 4 + do damage....I wonder if third eye has a similar randomness, that is based primarly off of mob level

[Xsaintx-Siren]

Stun is able to hold hate pretty well.

So is Raptor Mazurka.

If you think thats what enables nins to sub drk and brd, you are a retard. Why doesnt anyone on the paladin bus sub bard or drk while were at it(sarcasm)

Why don't you just kill yourself? kay?

[Judai]

SAM/DRK is a no, while Seigan is active your Stuns will have longer recast for Stun. So your theory is flawed.

Third-Eye is NOT reliable, sometimes it lasts 6 hits, sometimes it lasts 1. Being vunerable for say 20s because it lasted on one hit will end up in death. You will also lose hate from being cure-bombed.

No reliable way of taking/blocking damage and no natural way to gain hate for SAM.

SAM now has survivability not tanking ability.

[Chips]

You do realize Seigan kills Stun recast right?

Yeah, I guess this would ultimately be the downfall, I suppose. With seigan up, you multiply the recast 1.5, I think.

Even with max haste gear, and spells, you could only bring the recast down to 33s. I'm fairly sure that much haste gear isn't even possible, though.

[shinobi_tabi]

Utsusemi is reliable

Third Eye is not

Any other questions?

Where do babies come from?

this is how you got your gay yindork title, by pretty much going post+1 on so many topics, keep on trucking, you will beat the game...er forums eventually, safe to assume at this rate you will outparse BRP who you tried to say does what you just did on that other thread you didn't respond to
run on sentence FTW
anyone what geno said is exactly what i woulda said, Siegan only increases chance to evade/counter, some monsters you do not want to chalk it up to chances

[Sidanoir]

SAM now has survivability not tanking ability.

QFT

[Matrix]

/nod @ survivailiaviavlvibiilty.

We got bored so tried tnking a lolgenbu with 2 SAM/WAR (neither of us have DRK leveled), and holding hate is nearly impossible. Third eye is also pretty unreliable in tersm of how many hits you will avoid. Water IV (or w/e it was <.<) hurt a bit too.

SO ya, surival =/= tanking

[Chips]

Something I think that everyone is overlooking (maybe not), but SAM can also cap dmg%- in gear. Meaning, SAM would be taking around the same amout of damage (physical) as a decked out PLD/WAR.

Something a lot of people also don't realize, is that with some of the new gear, SAM also has the 2nd highest MGK%- gear availible to them (the only thing that beats them is a PLD with Aegis). Just thought I'd point that out.

Edit: PLD/WAR

[RKenshin]

I'm not so sure it could work in many (if any) situations either.

But, I think it's worth mentioning that a SAM/WAR could have as much defense/VIT/-damage taken as a NIN (all the gear I use for my NIN defense gear can be worn on SAM), and possibly a good deal more? I know SAM/WAR definitely has a good deal more HP.


EDIT: Jyakku beat me to it. D:

[Ishido]

SAM using third eye with seigan is attemptin to do a similar style of tanking to NIN, but it carries with it many drawbacks. It is not reliable, as the number of evades per 30 seconds is not static. It does not absorb single target spells, which while not very detrimental for many HNM, still makes it less powerful than utsusemi. Haste does not affect the recast, and there is no second tier of the spell, combining for less evades than utsusemi. It is uninterruptable, but the other points outweigh that fact.

Seigan is not going to allow SAM to tank things as efficiently as NIN.

[Alastaire]

But, I think it's worth mentioning that a SAM/WAR could have as much defense/VIT/-damage taken as a NIN, and possibly more? I know SAM/WAR definitely has a good deal more HP.

Against something that your shadows don't hold out against anyway (like Ix'Aern MNK) perhaps this would be viable? I really have no experience with any of these things, just throwing some ideas around.

[Ishido]

But, I think it's worth mentioning that a SAM/WAR could have as much defense/VIT/-damage taken as a NIN, and possibly more? I know SAM/WAR definitely has a good deal more HP.

Against something that your shadows don't hold out against anyway (like Ix'Aern MNK) perhaps this would be viable? I really have no experience with any of these things, just throwing some ideas around.

I think Ruke uses his defense build on that, not really relying on shadows anyway. With 50% damage resist and a good amount of defense on top of that I'm pretty sure he hits for next to nothing.

Sure it's possible, but another question would be, if you have a tank job present, would you ever have a SAM switch roles with it?

[Alastaire]

But, I think it's worth mentioning that a SAM/WAR could have as much defense/VIT/-damage taken as a NIN, and possibly more? I know SAM/WAR definitely has a good deal more HP.

Against something that your shadows don't hold out against anyway (like Ix'Aern MNK) perhaps this would be viable? I really have no experience with any of these things, just throwing some ideas around.

I think Ruke uses his defense build on that, not really relying on shadows anyway. With 50% damage resist and a good amount of defense on top of that I'm pretty sure he hits for next to nothing.

Sure it's possible, but another question would be, if you have a tank job present, would you ever have a SAM switch roles with it?

Yeah, you likely wouldn't, but I'm just curious as to whether SAM could hold its own if you had limited resources, and had to divide people up to do different things, or whatever the case may be.