Samurai as a tank

[Chips]

Sure it's possible, but another question would be, if you have a tank job present, would you ever have a SAM switch roles with it?

This is ultimately what I comes down to. NIN and PLD would do it so much better than SAM, that it wouldn't be worth it to take the risk.

It's a shame, though.

[Xsaintx-Siren]

But, I think it's worth mentioning that a SAM/WAR could have as much defense/VIT/-damage taken as a NIN, and possibly more? I know SAM/WAR definitely has a good deal more HP.

Against something that your shadows don't hold out against anyway (like Ix'Aern MNK) perhaps this would be viable? I really have no experience with any of these things, just throwing some ideas around.

/

Good thing you kite Ix'Mnk. Sams can't tank end of story.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Utsusemi is reliable

Third Eye is not

Any other questions?

Where do babies come from?

this is how you got your gay yindork title, by pretty much going post+1 on so many topics, keep on trucking, you will beat the game...er forums eventually, safe to assume at this rate you will outparse BRP who you tried to say does what you just did on that other thread you didn't respond to
run on sentence FTW
anyone what geno said is exactly what i woulda said, Siegan only increases chance to evade/counter, some monsters you do not want to chalk it up to chances

Rawr! From now on I will respond to all your posts with a one word Zing! type response. In any case it will be more useful and entertaining than any of your posts.

[Unreal]

My LS did Ix'Mnk last night (No cape again /sigh) and I purposely got hate at the beggining to see how Seigan+Third Eye would stack up against him.
I anticapated five attacks and countered two then I had to have the PLD get it off me as I still had a good ten seconds or so till third eye was ready again.
Seigan is nice for when you grab hate in exp or on certain HNM/God's but its far from being able to let SAM tank anything worthwhile.

[shinobi_tabi]

Utsusemi is reliable

Third Eye is not

Any other questions?

Where do babies come from?

this is how you got your gay yindork title, by pretty much going post+1 on so many topics, keep on trucking, you will beat the game...er forums eventually, safe to assume at this rate you will outparse BRP who you tried to say does what you just did on that other thread you didn't respond to
run on sentence FTW
anyone what geno said is exactly what i woulda said, Siegan only increases chance to evade/counter, some monsters you do not want to chalk it up to chances

Rawr! From now on I will respond to all your posts with a one word Zing! type response. In any case it will be more useful and entertaining than any of your posts.

Exactly

[layoneil]

Rawr! From now on I will respond to all your posts with a one word Zing! type response. In any case it will be more useful and entertaining than any of your posts.

and if you actually do it, i will ban you.

[shinobi_tabi]

Rawr! From now on I will respond to all your posts with a one word Zing! type response. In any case it will be more useful and entertaining than any of your posts.

and if you actually do it, i will ban you again.

sorry sendoh i could not resist,
done with the forums for today, so no more trouble from me

[Lithiani]

Well... I (sorta) tried it.

2 instances where I've held hate for long enough to have some judge of the viability of SAM tanking.

Case 1: Simurgh. The hate turned to me in the last 15% of yesterdays Simurgh kill (after we poached it off the RMT). Simurgh didn't touch me during that time. Simurghs spell and TP move spam is actually helpful for Seigan tanking, as pretty much every one of his TP moves has a massive "cast" time. With an alert stunner, I'm reasonably certain I could at least cotank Simurgh all the way.

Case 2: Dynamis - (San'Doria & Bastok). I didn't main tank this, but I have a habit of pulling hate anyway in Dynamis, and I was watching the effectiveness of Seigan. MNKs are as unpleasant to me as they are to anyone else, but I did get 5 anticipates and 4 counters on a militant, which was quite impressive. Anything slow hitting, casting, or with a less than A weapon accuracy I can hold for 15+ seconds fairly reliably, often 20+. Sometimes, you do just get a one hit wonder though. Rangers are easy, unless they decide to Eagle Eye Shot you at just the wrong moment.


I would not say that it's possible to solo maintank as SAM. I would say that it'll be possible to cotank many things. Seigan downtime would be a nonissue with sufficient communication with other tanks in alliance. Solo main tanking isn't really a strategy that is used much, if at all, in endgame anyway.

Also, it's worth noting that my gear isn't really set for tanking, and my parrying isn't capped. Yet.

I also tried it in 50 cap, duo tanking with a NIN on Tenzen's Path. Very useful indeed.


A few other things to respond to:

better then trying to make a dd job a tank job, which by far the only way its going to hold hate it by doing damage not self-damage mitigation.

I can't tell if this is an arguement against SAM tanking or for NINs using Hauby in XP.

Versus HNMs, how does Third Eye hold up while Seigan is active?

I actually think there is some kind of level correction in play. Simurgh, as I've mentioned, literally could not touch me - and IIRC, Simugh actually has quite a low official level.

[Alastaire]

Lots of useful information, thanks for your input Lithiani. It's clear that SAM won't be a self-efficient main tank, but I suppose as a backup tank it looks to be doing well, especially VS something like Hundred Fists. I think a couple SAMs would do well against MNK-type mobs that can 2hr, since, a lot of hits come in the early stage of Third Eye, and you can get possibly 10+ evades/counters, then switch to another SAM.

[Faris]

SAM gets lots of -Dmg taken/Evasion from that new Hydra gear, right?

maybe it can tank some stuff with all that.

ooo SAM can wear AegisHead too. O_o

[IDontNothing]

During dynamis I was only tank (and had to do alot of pulling/dying) so we had a sam/war tank for a while. He did ok but died a few times due to being in melee pty and no deticated whms for him.

Sam/wars have been tanking xp mobs for a bit now. I dunno about new regions but I remember having a Sam tank weapons in sky for us all the time, he had max parry so he didnt get hit for much.

[Don Katsu]

I exp'd yesterday as SAM having to take down Hasso to use Seigan with Third Eye is kinda annoying especially if you're not holding hate for that long.

I think SAM can tank T-VT mobs for ok exp (5-6k an hour @ level 60) doesn't seem as reliable as a main tank on an HNM that takes longer than 10 minutes and can end up hiting the SAM more times than a NIN.

[Lithiani]

SAM gets lots of -Dmg taken/Evasion from that new Hydra gear, right?

maybe it can tank some stuff with all that.

ooo SAM can wear AegisHead too. O_o

For physical damage, Arhat's is superior. lolHydra gear for magic damage, I guess.

[sweet]

After some playing around I can see 2 Sam/Wars as being a very solid exp tanking combo, which would be the same as 2 War/nins only with greater chaining/bursting potential. A party like Sam, Sam, Brd, Rdm, Blm, Blm could now be very effective at almost any level.

Beyond exp...

I kind of doubt it. on anything that matters you'd have to sacrifce too much of your offense to survive that you'd never be able to keep hate. While Sam gets access to some amazing tank gear we don't have to hate tools to sacrifce the gear slots to utilize it. So... no, it's not a new HNM tank in any fashion. But it's a very solid exp tank now.

[Alastaire]

on anything that matters you'd have to sacrifce too much of your offense to survive that you'd never be able to keep hate. While Sam gets access to some amazing tank gear we don't have to hate tools to sacrifce the gear slots to utilize it. So... no, it's not a new HNM tank in any fashion. But it's a very solid exp tank now.

Yeah, you're probably right; that party setup you mentioned actually seems really awesome, definitely would be worth trying out sometime.

[netz]

But, I think it's worth mentioning that a SAM/WAR could have as much defense/VIT/-damage taken as a NIN, and possibly more? I know SAM/WAR definitely has a good deal more HP.

Against something that your shadows don't hold out against anyway (like Ix'Aern MNK) perhaps this would be viable? I really have no experience with any of these things, just throwing some ideas around.

/

Good thing you kite Ix'Mnk. Sams can't tank end of story.

You do?

I just read forums and cast Regen 3 while a paladin straight tanks it.

[DeadLegend]

How much Enmity+ and phys dmg%- can samurai stack in one set of gear?

[Navia]

SAM/DRK is a no, while Seigan is active your Stuns will have longer recast for Stun. So your theory is flawed.

Cause clicking off seigan already being up->Stun->seigan+3rd eye is too hard amirite?
Not saying SAM should tank HNM, but you can get around recast getting fucked a fair amount.

[layoneil]

Cause clicking off seigan already being up->Stun->seigan+3rd eye is too hard amirite?
Not saying SAM should tank HNM, but you can get around recast getting fucked a fair amount.

not going to be able to do that every 24 or so seconds with a 1 minute JA. and if you're not casting Stun every time it's up, you're not going to hold hate.

[Alastaire]

SAM/DRK is a no, while Seigan is active your Stuns will have longer recast for Stun. So your theory is flawed.

Cause clicking off seigan already being up->Stun->seigan+3rd eye is too hard amirite?
Not saying SAM should tank HNM, but you can get around recast getting fucked a fair amount.

That was my first thought on that criticism, but since the theory is that you'd have to Stun between Third Eyes, and Seigan is only renewable ever minute, it doesn't work. :/

My mistake for completely forgetting the recast gimp.