Trick Attack not 100% if you're /THF?

[doofy]

TAWS was bugged as hell initially after the assassin patch, and it was a needed boost (at the time) that was promptly fixed. THF main w/assassin using TAWS would land every hit on a multi hit WS and they would all land as crits. This of course lasted for about 24 hours until SE patched it, as well as breaking triple/double procs on WS for several months (along with the whole counter + trick attack bug). As far as /thf goes if your friend is having issues with the hate transfer it simply means trick missed, there's no partial hate transfer.

-Vyzrael (Asura)

[Machazareel]

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1882/faceavep4.jpg

I really wish someone in my linkshell could draw like that >B|

But yeah, TA always transfers as long as you're lined up, but sometimes it still isn't enough to save you

[chiz]

Trick Attack does not guarantee that the hit will land.
Sneak Attack does guarantee that the hit will land.

If Trick Attack is active, and if the hit lands, 100% of enmity is transfered 100% of the time.

100% True summary . except again make sure you are lined up properly...

If you can't tell if your lined up use F5 and make sure your centered with the person your TAing...and the mob is also centered or whatever <.< its not that hard unless the person likes to move

Weird exception to the rule, SA+WS can be blinked, SA alone can't.

But ya, TA+WS isn't 100% accuracy either, although there does seem to be some kind of accuracy bonus, as THF main at least.

What if you use TA with a multi-hit WS, and the first hit misses? No hate transfer?

Would be really hard to tell on a multi-hit WS, depending which you used. If THF main, missing the first would mean considerably less damage because loss of AGI bonus on 1st hit and critical bonus to 1st hit, although would still be hard to see on something like DE. On SB it'd be pretty obvious, but again, I'm pretty sure there's some type of accuracy bonus to TA for THF main that might be tied to Assassin itself, so missing the 1st hit critical and hitting the 2nd+ would be pretty uncommon.

For other high damage multihit WS, like Guillotine, all 4 hits+ do nearly the same damage so it'd be pretty hard to distinguish which hit missed (especially without SA). It would be easier to tell on something like Cross Reaper, but still difficult. But regardless, hypothetically, I'm leaning towards all hits transferring hate, though I'm not 100% sure of it. I'll try to think of a different example that shares similar characteristics, but I can't think of any atm.

[inafume]

yay!

I loved that game.

[Ryko]

It's really easy to tell with guillotine and RagingRush, just due to the fact that if you miss the first hit your TP gain is like 3 or 2 respectively but it still does like 600+ damage.

[Kilik]

Has anyone noticed a sneak attack from anywhere besides the back of a mob lowers accuracy? Ive seen more SA WS's missed when a mob turns than WS's w/o SA

[Ryko]

Has anyone noticed a sneak attack from anywhere besides the back of a mob lowers accuracy? Ive seen more SA WS's missed when a mob turns than WS's w/o SA

It's the same reason people think DRKs have terrible accuracy, the situation (where a DRK swings or you SA and the mob isnt faced correctly) comes up less so you pay attention to it more.

[chiz]

Has anyone noticed a sneak attack from anywhere besides the back of a mob lowers accuracy? Ive seen more SA WS's missed when a mob turns than WS's w/o SA

>.>

I guess it should be mentioned that SA only works from behind the mob. Wasn't always the case until the Yokodama patch, but the radius is fairly small now, maybe 15 degrees left/right if the mob center is 180. Makes Assassin that much better though.

[Ryko]

I think he knew that, I think he was mentioning situations where the mob turns and not only does the hit not critical (which is a no brainer) but entirely whiffs altogether.

[Eaglestrike]

Trick Attack does not guarantee that the hit will land.
Sneak Attack does guarantee that the hit will land.

If Trick Attack is active, and if the hit lands, 100% of enmity is transfered 100% of the time.

100% True summary . except again make sure you are lined up properly...

If you can't tell if your lined up use F5 and make sure your centered with the person your TAing...and the mob is also centered or whatever <.< its not that hard unless the person likes to move

Weird exception to the rule, SA+WS can be blinked, SA alone can't.

But ya, TA+WS isn't 100% accuracy either, although there does seem to be some kind of accuracy bonus, as THF main at least.

What if you use TA with a multi-hit WS, and the first hit misses? No hate transfer?

Would be really hard to tell on a multi-hit WS, depending which you used. If THF main, missing the first would mean considerably less damage because loss of AGI bonus on 1st hit and critical bonus to 1st hit, although would still be hard to see on something like DE. On SB it'd be pretty obvious, but again, I'm pretty sure there's some type of accuracy bonus to TA for THF main that might be tied to Assassin itself, so missing the 1st hit critical and hitting the 2nd+ would be pretty uncommon.

For other high damage multihit WS, like Guillotine, all 4 hits+ do nearly the same damage so it'd be pretty hard to distinguish which hit missed (especially without SA). It would be easier to tell on something like Cross Reaper, but still difficult. But regardless, hypothetically, I'm leaning towards all hits transferring hate, though I'm not 100% sure of it. I'll try to think of a different example that shares similar characteristics, but I can't think of any atm.

All hits transfer hate, always, never heard any proof that /thf TA doesn't and it's already gimped because of no AGI bonus (just like /thf SA is gimped from no DEX bonus).

For THF there is no accuracy bonus aside from Assassin making the first hit a 100% critical hit like SA always is(and offhand also hits 100% of the time.) Chiz it's sounding like you don't believe TA is a 100% chance to hit as 60+ thf, not really sure what that's about >.>

To put is simply:
Thf main:
SA = Next physical strike has 100% accuracy and is a critical hit with DEX added to WDMG when behind an opponent.
TA30-60 = Next physical attack round transfers hate to a party or alliance member between THF and mob, first strike adds AGI to WDMG.
TA60+ = Next physical attack round transfers hate to a party or alliance member between THF and mob, first strike is a 100% chance critical hit and adds AGI to WDMG.
/thf:
SA = Next physical strike has 100% accuracy and is a critical hit when behind an opponent.
TA = Next physical attack round transfers hate to a party or alliance member between THF and mob.

[chiz]

It's really easy to tell with guillotine and RagingRush, just due to the fact that if you miss the first hit your TP gain is like 3 or 2 respectively but it still does like 600+ damage.

Orite, thinking tp return with /NIN D:

But ya, would be pretty easy to tell then with one of those 2 WS based on TP return and whether or not you pull hate (if hate is loose) even with TA.

[chiz]

For THF there is no accuracy bonus aside from Assassin making the first hit a 100% critical hit like SA always is(and offhand also hits 100% of the time.) Chiz it's sounding like you don't believe TA is a 100% chance to hit as 60+ thf, not really sure what that's about >.>

Its 100% critical hit on 1st hit yes, but its not 100% chance to hit. Easy to test, you can miss when flashed with actinic burst on sea Ghrah with only TA.

[Kilik]

I think he knew that, I think he was mentioning situations where the mob turns and not only does the hit not critical (which is a no brainer) but entirely whiffs altogether.

Exactly.. like on Kirin, thf goes to do SA SharkBite while Kirin is casting and Kirin turns. THF usually ends up missing Shark Bite all together. But in the same situation when the thf uses just SharkBite w/o SA, it usually still lands

[Eaglestrike]

For THF there is no accuracy bonus aside from Assassin making the first hit a 100% critical hit like SA always is(and offhand also hits 100% of the time.) Chiz it's sounding like you don't believe TA is a 100% chance to hit as 60+ thf, not really sure what that's about >.>

Its 100% critical hit on 1st hit yes, but its not 100% chance to hit. Easy to test, you can miss when flashed with actinic burst on sea Ghrah with only TA.

No, you never miss a TA with Assassin if you meet the conditions of trick attack.

I think he knew that, I think he was mentioning situations where the mob turns and not only does the hit not critical (which is a no brainer) but entirely whiffs altogether.

Exactly.. like on Kirin, thf goes to do SA SharkBite while Kirin is casting and Kirin turns. THF usually ends up missing Shark Bite all together. But in the same situation when the thf uses just SharkBite w/o SA, it usually still lands

That's never been the case for me.

[Jaffar]

Has anyone noticed a sneak attack from anywhere besides the back of a mob lowers accuracy? Ive seen more SA WS's missed when a mob turns than WS's w/o SA

Well, given that you just mentioned SA+SB, it should make sense- most thfs arent stacking ACC at all for SB gear since SA guarantees the first hit, if the mob moves, now your swinging with a lot of dex/str/atk gear with little acc.

[Kilik]

SB was just an example, but that doesnt change the fact that they land it more often (still using Kirin example) when he turns and they dont have SA on. Same gear set with and without SA active.

[chiz]

No, you never miss a TA with Assassin if you meet the conditions of trick attack.

Like I said, easy to test. 100% critical isn't the same as 100% accuracy. Another simple test. TA alone without WS, you can miss. Its not often, but I have missed a few TA while blinded at Faf camp.

[Eaglestrike]

SB was just an example, but that doesnt change the fact that they land it more often (still using Kirin example) when he turns and they dont have SA on. Same gear set with and without SA active.

I actually can't recall ever missing SB on Kirin. I've had it hit for 0 damage I'm pretty sure lol, but not missed. But then again I have shitty WS gear so I keep a fair bit of acc on for ws's lol

[inafume]

For THF there is no accuracy bonus aside from Assassin making the first hit a 100% critical hit like SA always is(and offhand also hits 100% of the time.) Chiz it's sounding like you don't believe TA is a 100% chance to hit as 60+ thf, not really sure what that's about >.>

Its 100% critical hit on 1st hit yes, but its not 100% chance to hit. Easy to test, you can miss when flashed with actinic burst on sea Ghrah with only TA.

No, you never miss a TA with Assassin if you meet the conditions of trick attack.

I second that. SA (or TA)+Shark during Puk Obfuscate works nicely.

[Eaglestrike]

No, you never miss a TA with Assassin if you meet the conditions of trick attack.

Like I said, easy to test. 100% critical isn't the same as 100% accuracy. Another simple test. TA alone without WS, you can miss. Its not often, but I have missed a few TA while blinded at Faf camp.

Then you weren't behind someone correctly. I specifically save SA and TA to hit when a Ghrah uses Flashga in sea. I have never missed once when I was behind someone, nor any offhand hits.