Military Draft

[Demosthenes11]

Hate to do this, but I need a little input on some research. I am debating my prof. within the next week on the economic standpoint of the military draft. Lucky me got the pro side, and she gets the con side. So I call to you, fellow BG readers, to help me on some info.

Any input regarding pros/cons would be great, and remember this is from a purely economic standpoint.
Thanks

[Charitwo]

Well, when I was in Basic, we were informed it costs approximately $10000 per person for expenses throughout Basic and Tech School. This is the AF, not sure about the other branches.

Uniforms, Clothes, Food(yes, free food), pretty much everything is furnished to you as far as necessities. The only thing you NEEDED to by yourself after Basic was toilet paper...lol

[Demosthenes11]

Well, when I was in Basic, we were informed it costs approximately $10000 per person for expenses throughout Basic and Tech School. This is the AF, not sure about the other branches.

Uniforms, Clothes, Food(yes, free food), pretty much everything is furnished to you as far as necessities. The only thing you NEEDED to by yourself after Basic was toilet paper...lol

Well would this change if the draft was reinstated? Wouldn't the cost of putting them in bootcamp be the same, just they wouldn't be paid for their services? (Assuming they are now)

[Charitwo]

I'm not sure, if the draft was re-instated and they started recruiting random joe schmoes... expenses would surely go up.

Along with the free necessities you also got a paycheck every 2 weeks based on your pay grade... perhaps during a draft they would garnish your pay in order to help cover the cost to be able to furnish food and clothes... not competlely sure. But they do still have to pay you... because it is a job.

[Demosthenes11]

Well, maybe I should post all the pros I have thus far

- It gets many of the welfare-sucking idividuals, as well as the criminals that would otherwise be in jail.
- Creates a desire to go to college to avoid the draft, therefore increasing the education of the workforce.
- The military pays for a lot of Child support for those who have illigitimate children, giving those children better opportunities to succeed.
- Since you pay into Social Security in the military, it ensures some sort of a retirement plan for when those people retire.
- Advertising money does not need to be spent advertising the army if it is mandatory.
- The military does not have to pay for people to go through boot camp, only if they participate in some sort of conflict or service (This one weak because im not sure)
- Again, the prison population would likely decrease, decreasing the amount of money needed to fund prisons.
- During non-conflict times, many soldiers can be put elsewhere (the border for example) to heal economic bleeding from different things
- The military provides medical services, ensuring these individuals do not get care from the ER when they can not afford it
- Keeps delinquents occupied, whereas otherwise they could resort to crime.
- Military often gives Education to their soldiers.
- Country morale rises, giving more people a sense of pride in their country, making people buy more domestic products (stretch)

What I have so far

[Demosthenes11]

Just found some more info (sorry if this is uninteresting to some, but I found this startling)

The service most likely to need draftees in a crisis -- is currently short about 7,000 recruits; the most recent figures said it could fall 10,000 recruits short of its congressionally mandated strength
- Costs about $12,000 per recruit in the volunteer army, and with the congressionally mandated required strength of 480,000 soldiers, it costs $5,760,000,000 to recruit the army; That is JUST the army branch of the military.

[Fuuko]

You could make a case that it would improve the efficiency of the workforce, I believe there are a few studies done on this, but I can remember for sure. In theory, the average ex-military person is more productive than an average civilian, because the military beats the concept of slacking out of you. As well as the average military person has done their job longer, and under more stress full conditions than the average new graduate.

Anecdotally speaking, most organizations, that have a comparable civilian counterpart, IE hospitals, DMV vs. Military ID's, etc. The military version is much, much faster and more efficient than the civilian version. In my personal experience, at least.

[Solefald]

Are you talking about full conscription (all males of a certain age have to serve in the military), or a draft lottery (a % of males of a certain age are chosen at random to serve)? Depending on which type it is, it could have an effect on many of your points.

A few things I'd like to point out about your list:
- It gets many of the welfare-sucking idividuals, as well as the criminals that would otherwise be in jail. - Which is more expensive to the government: Keeping someone on welfare, or keeping them in the military? Is it more expensive to keep a criminal locked up, or keep them in the military? Since you're the pro side, you obviously would argue that welfare and prison cost more than military service. The other thing about a draft is, it will also pick up a lot of people who would otherwise be the high-flyers, entrepreneurs and such.

- Since you pay into Social Security in the military, it ensures some sort of a retirement plan for when those people retire. - Everyone already pays into Social Security.

- The military does not have to pay for people to go through boot camp, only if they participate in some sort of conflict or service (This one weak because im not sure) - Yes they do, as someone already pointed out.

- During non-conflict times, many soldiers can be put elsewhere (the border for example) to heal economic bleeding from different things - This only works if the work that the soldiers do saves more money than it costs to put them there. If illegal immigration costs the country $200m/year, but it costs $250m/year to put soldiers on the border, then it's not worth it. If I understand your prompt correctly, this is pretty much the heart of your argument. You have to prove that drafting young men into the military will benefit the overall economy *more* than if they were just left to their own devices.

- The military provides medical services, ensuring these individuals do not get care from the ER when they can not afford it - This still costs money, although the VA hospital system may well be more efficient than a private health care provider.

- Military often gives Education to their soldiers. - Yes, many soldiers get technical training and work experience. The G.I. bill provides a soldier with something like $20,000 college credit once they finish their military service.

- Country morale rises, giving more people a sense of pride in their country, making people buy more domestic products (stretch) - Yeah this is a stretch. But a draft, especially if it expanded the overall size of the military, would provide a boost to defense industries. Defense companies are usually US-based.

[Xiona]

you reinstate the draft and youll get a lot of people dodging/ leaving the country. you definately need to factor that into your whole equation

and you need to factor in theyll need to rewrite who they let into the draft due to the progression of womens lib etc

[Daahan]

lol you got the pro side but isn't that bad. I can tell you many things since I have taken upper level classes pertaining to the subject, but I don't have too much time to post them all on the forums. I'll PM you my AIM and if you want you can talk to me when I get home.

[edgarfigaro]

- The military provides medical services, ensuring these individuals do not get care from the ER when they can not afford it - This still costs money, although the VA hospital system may well be more efficient than a private health care provider.

lol

First off, the VA system is ridiculous. Being forced to travel 3 hours to a facility just to do rehab when there is a perfectly fine rehab facilities in your area is a slap to the face. Second off, military and their families use Tricare, which is excellent insurance...until you step off the base. That, factored with the severely uneven level of care (the best general surgeons are usually ex-military, but the military radiologists are fucking awful) provided on base really hurts military personel. Yes, it's better than no insurance at all, but most of the time the spouse needs to get additional insurance through their work...which is screwy because they move around so much that they have large amounts of gaps in coverage.

[kojikaze]

The real good economic reason for the draft I can think of is that while these draftees are being trained and deployed, they have most of their expenses paid for. And since they still get paid while training and deployment, they are more likely to save their money and spend big when their deployment is up. (Of course this mostly accounts single males, which is what I believe a draft would target anyway)

That and they would also get GI credits for college when they return, so they'll can go to college and become part of the professional workforce.

Unfortunately, the military already accepts aged people (like 40-50 years old), people with criminal backgrounds, and people with low IQs already. So any of those people that aren't in the military already probably don't want to be in the military. But pulling people out of the general population, would lead to a worker shortage, which means companies would have to pay more for workers and thus you can see economic benefit for them.

But if you take into account that the military would draft these people first, it could be a benefit in the cost of services and care for these people would go down within a state or community. Which could allow these states and communities to focus more money do other stuff, like cut taxes, increase education spending, which would lead to economic benefit. The communities around a training base can benefit too, as those soldiers go off and party on their leave. (but this could hurt the community too if the majority of those soldiers have criminal backgrounds)

Another economic benefit could be increased military production. A draft usually means a very large war is on the horizon. So additional equipment and machinery is needed for this vast new army. So that would be economic benefit for the companies that profit on human death. On a more insensitive note, wars usually lead to large amounts of death, thus reducing the overall human population. This could lead to more resources available for those who are left as well.

But overall, good luck on that debate. The pro side definately is at the disadvantage in this arguement. Because your basically arguing that starting a war (and thus a draft) would be economically benefitial. Of course the only real wars to prove this was WWI and WWII. All the other wars after those two never really produced any real economic gain for the US I believe. (ie: the Vietnam war)

[Solefald]

lol

First off, the VA system is ridiculous. Being forced to travel 3 hours to a facility just to do rehab when there is a perfectly fine rehab facilities in your area is a slap to the face. Second off, military and their families use Tricare, which is excellent insurance...until you step off the base. That, factored with the severely uneven level of care (the best general surgeons are usually ex-military, but the military radiologists are fucking awful) provided on base really hurts military personel. Yes, it's better than no insurance at all, but most of the time the spouse needs to get additional insurance through their work...which is screwy because they move around so much that they have large amounts of gaps in coverage.

We're talking purely in terms of money. I have no idea if VA hospitals give better or worse service than regular ones.

[Takedown3]

you are better of finding your own sources and doing your own research, i hardly think that quoting BG users is a reliable or recognizable resource for a debate with a prof

[Demosthenes11]

you are better of finding your own sources and doing your own research, i hardly think that quoting BG users is a reliable or recognizable resource for a debate with a prof

Not much research can be done other than speculation though, because obviously this is an unreal situation

All of the hard facts I have already, just seeing if I missed anything

[Ksandra]

My only suggestion would be to take the social security out of it, as it sounds like they're going to get rid of that all together in a few years, and is kinda a hot topic in the government atm.