FF11 on ps3?

[solsovly]

aurik says:

You don't know!

Fact is, you don't know, so STFU.

You should check your facts before you open your mouth, and lol2postsgtfo

Well, about the inventory thing, I'm pretty sure it's not a genuine PS2 limitation.

Technical mumbo jumbo

Derail: Your avatar rocks, <3 Crusader. Gogo early 90's EA games that were actually good.

edit: or Origin Games before EA raped them, depending on your viewpoint.

[Asherek]

Derail: Your avatar rocks, <3 Crusader. Gogo early 90's EA games that were actually good.

Yeah, really. :D

I really wish they'd make another one, I really loved No Remorse and No Regret.

Need more of those, including Syndicate and Syndicate Wars!

[aurik]

aurik says:

You don't know!

Fact is, you don't know, so STFU.

You should check your facts before you open your mouth, and lol2postsgtfo

Well, about the inventory thing, I'm pretty sure it's not a genuine PS2 limitation.

I mean, the PS2 is more than capable of displaying gigantic AH lists. The fact about AH and Inventory being seperate servers is completely irrelevant to what the PS2 itself is capable of displaying.

From good coding practices, it should be pretty obvious that an item, as stored in memory, shouldn't differ greatly from an AH listing to actually in your inventory. All the extra information that would really be needed is a simple flag stating that a.) it's in your inventory and b.) the number of charges on it if it's an enchanted item.

In fact, the most amount of actual "memory" that would be used for each item would be the icon/picture representing it and the actual text in the description to be honest. The rest of the data, coming from a modelling perspective

Hell, most of this stuff is handled on the server end anyways. I mean, even checks to see if you can equip something on a job are handled on server end, not client end (I'm fairly sure about this anyways, I could be wrong). It happened to me once, switched jobs in MH from PLD -> BRD and my internet disconnected literally a split second afterwards and when my character "reappeared" while I was R0'ing, it was still wearing PLD items.

I agree that there are probably quite a few PS2 limitations they're dealing with, especially in terms of the graphic engine + interface. However, it's hard to believe them on the inventory issue, especially when magically they introduce more and more features that allow for more inventory space.

It also doesn't really excuse their laziness when it came to taking advantage of PC's DirectX features to optimize the graphic engine on PC's. I don't see how utilizing DirectX optimizations would lead to an imbalance between the PC and PS2 versions.

Inventory lists differ from AH lists. For one, the AH list is just a set of prototypes of items. In inventory, items have a lot of attached metadata that won't get loaded for an item on the AH.

Things like attached sounds/textures/models/animations/etc are all potential candidates for hidden memory costs. Not only that, but as a programmer you have to constantly plan for "worst case" scenarios. Sure, maybe the PS2 has lots of memory available for extra inventory spaces when running through Ronfaure, but when you get to Tiamat and Firaga3 hits the whole ally you don't want all the PS2s crashing saying "lolz out of memory".

The important fact to take out of this, though is that AH and Inventory item lists are handled in completely different manners which means that the limitations between AH lists and inventory lists are independent of one another. That means any inference from AH lists about the theoretical capability of inventory lists is almost surely inaccurate.

[Xavier]

Reading through all of the 'technical' explanations, I think I'm starting to like Sage Sundi more and more. At least hes a straight shooter.

[Asherek]

Inventory lists differ from AH lists. For one, the AH list is just a set of prototypes of items. In inventory, items have a lot of attached metadata that won't get loaded for an item on the AH.

Don't take this the wrong way, but how do you know this for a fact?

I'm not claiming to know how they coded any of this, I'm simply going by what I've learned from my programming experience as good practices/standards to follow when developing a model for storing/retrieving data. I'm merely stating how I think things should have been coded.

This metadata you speak of, judging from the way things load ingame, is probably simply a set of 2-bit flags/variable strings attached to an item. Hardly anything really limited by something like a PS2.

Things like attached sounds/textures/models/animations/etc are all potential candidates for hidden memory costs. Not only that, but as a programmer you have to constantly plan for "worst case" scenarios. Sure, maybe the PS2 has lots of memory available for extra inventory spaces when running through Ronfaure, but when you get to Tiamat and Firaga3 hits the whole ally you don't want all the PS2s crashing saying "lolz out of memory".

Just from pure observation, it would seem that sounds/textures/models/animations don't get loaded into memory/utilized until the actual item is equipped/used though. Hence the whole "character disappearing" thing that happens when you equip something. If I'm wrong and it's all attached/loaded for every single item in your inventory into memory, then that's a very bad way of coding it, no matter how you slice it.

The important fact to take out of this, though is that AH and Inventory item lists are handled in completely different manners which means that the limitations between AH lists and inventory lists are independent of one another. That means any inference from AH lists about the theoretical capability of inventory lists is almost surely inaccurate.

We're merely talking about being able to list a set of items, all of which are stored remotely on a server using a bunch of (what I would hope would be) SQL/Database queries to retrieve, with slightly varying amounts of data associated with each. In terms of what's actually being displayed in your inventory when you list it, I would hope that all S/E is doing is simply making a database query -> list the items. Anything more shows a severe waste of code/memory in my opinion.

[Cautery]

About FFXI and PS3, it doesnt work because the game dont recognize yet the HDD cause its not like the PS2 one. Since this PS3 first system realease, from what I read, have some incompatibility problems with PS2 and PS1 games, the next system updates will probably fix this and allow FFXI to works on PS3 too. Btw, there will be no graphic enhancement for sure.

[Goso]

Inventory lists differ from AH lists. For one, the AH list is just a set of prototypes of items. In inventory, items have a lot of attached metadata that won't get loaded for an item on the AH.

Being somone that has slim to none background in programing, or any knowlage of the games inner workings, I belive this. Only reason I can think of (again, having no knowlage of programing) is that When you AH something, it becomes un-signed, and your invitory itmes obviously stay signed.

[Ploid]

About FFXI and PS3, it doesnt work because the game dont recognize yet the HDD cause its not like the PS2 one. Since this PS3 first system realease, from what I read, have some incompatibility problems with PS2 and PS1 games, the next system updates will probably fix this and allow FFXI to works on PS3 too. Btw, there will be no graphic enhancement for sure.

Well there shouldn't be compatibility issues at all considering that PS3 has a good amount of space and cost for having the ps2 and psx chips and crap in the unit.

PS3 board. PS2 Emotion engine and GS with the same two memory chips above it as the original PStwo board.
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_32.jpg

The PStwo board to compair.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/doc ... scej29.jpg

And here is the PSone's section. The fan he's talking about
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.ph ... tcount=123

---
If it has problems playing certain ps2 and ps1 games Sony really screwed up since it's hardware that's making it backwards compatible.

[aurik]

Inventory lists differ from AH lists. For one, the AH list is just a set of prototypes of items. In inventory, items have a lot of attached metadata that won't get loaded for an item on the AH.

Don't take this the wrong way, but how do you know this for a fact?

I'm not claiming to know how they coded any of this, I'm simply going by what I've learned from my programming experience as good practices/standards to follow when developing a model for storing/retrieving data. I'm merely stating how I think things should have been coded.

This metadata you speak of, judging from the way things load ingame, is probably simply a set of 2-bit flags/variable strings attached to an item. Hardly anything really limited by something like a PS2.

AH data gets streamed in via TCP from a seperate auction server, whereas inventory lists are stored in your character data. AH data doesn't require an actual item to be exist; prototypes don't include stuff like current charges, charge countdown, signature, and hidden data that may exist like UID, transaction history, creation date, as well as pre-loaded data attached such as model, texture, any associated sounds or animations, etc.

Whether or not it "should be possible" has no bearing on how possible things actually are. They may have budgeted on the order of kilobytes for carried inventory when they initially launched the game, and since one or two encounters in the entire game fill up the memory, they can't expand it. "They have 32mb to work with" disappears fast when you're loading in lots of models, textures, sounds, animations, game code, whatever.

[quote:ff138]Things like attached sounds/textures/models/animations/etc are all potential candidates for hidden memory costs. Not only that, but as a programmer you have to constantly plan for "worst case" scenarios. Sure, maybe the PS2 has lots of memory available for extra inventory spaces when running through Ronfaure, but when you get to Tiamat and Firaga3 hits the whole ally you don't want all the PS2s crashing saying "lolz out of memory".

Just from pure observation, it would seem that sounds/textures/models/animations don't get loaded into memory/utilized until the actual item is equipped/used though. Hence the whole "character disappearing" thing that happens when you equip something. If I'm wrong and it's all attached/loaded for every single item in your inventory into memory, then that's a very bad way of coding it, no matter how you slice it.[/quote:ff138]

They probably do some degree of pre-loading from disc in order to improve performance.

[quote:ff138]The important fact to take out of this, though is that AH and Inventory item lists are handled in completely different manners which means that the limitations between AH lists and inventory lists are independent of one another. That means any inference from AH lists about the theoretical capability of inventory lists is almost surely inaccurate.

We're merely talking about being able to list a set of items, all of which are stored remotely on a server using a bunch of (what I would hope would be) SQL/Database queries to retrieve, with slightly varying amounts of data associated with each. In terms of what's actually being displayed in your inventory when you list it, I would hope that all S/E is doing is simply making a database query -> list the items. Anything more shows a severe waste of code/memory in my opinion.[/quote:ff138]

That's what essentially happens at the AH: you query the AH server using TCP and stream item IDs and current auction counts. Then, your client retrieves extra data (stats, etc) from the dat files. Your local inventory is stored locally, and repopulated from scratch every time you zone. Your storage/locker/bank/whatever is also repopulated, but unless you're in the mog house, the client probably skips loading a bunch of data (like model/animation/texture/whatnot).

[Cautery]

Well there shouldn't be compatibility issues at all considering that PS3 has a good amount of space and cost for having the ps2 and psx chips and crap in the unit.

Sony confrimed the incompatibility problems with lot of PS2/PS1 games. Just to give you names: GT4, Devil MayCry and FFXI; this last one cause the PS3 HD can't emulate the PS2 one.

Just cause of these problems, Sony opened an official page where they say wich games are or not compatible yet with the PS3.

http://www.jp.playstation.com/ps3/status/

With the future system updates they will try to fix every incompatibilty problems!

[Sorrower]

In order for them to make the other games compatible, yea that should be fairly easy compared to making ffxi compatible. and with a lot of the ps2 players being able to buy a 360 or most have pc's, i don't see it on their priority list.