Bush signs bill enabling martial law

[Daahan]

Technically you aren't losing a war when you have the ratio of our deaths to the deaths of the enemy that we have. We are losing the war of our own public opinion. General thought was that our populace had no resolve to see a war through to its finish. This was the case with every war after Vietnam. My grandfather who fought in WW2 thinks America is pathetic in this regard. No matter how you got into a war, you have to finish it in a convincing fashion or you will be seen as weak.

We're not going to be out of Iraq until all the males on these forums become impotent.

[Eternus]

Technically you aren't losing a war when you have the ratio of our deaths to the deaths of the enemy that we have. We are losing the war of our own public opinion. General thought was that our populace had no resolve to see a war through to its finish. This was the case with every war after Vietnam. My grandfather who fought in WW2 thinks America is pathetic in this regard. No matter how you got into a war, you have to finish it in a convincing fashion or you will be seen as weak.

We're not going to be out of Iraq until all the males on these forums become impotent.

lol you can think of it that way if you wish. We have no resolve that is all. Our military currently does, but we are divided with a policing strategy. Police warfare is bullshit, need to be the aggressor not reacting to guerrila warfare tactics by the enemy. Vietnam and other wars should teach people this. Impotent lmao. That will be a long time man. The US might not exist in its current state in that time, Social Security is going to kill us.

[Demosthenes11]

As far as the lol"Anti-Americanism" I guess you could say they wanted to remove some of the "Anti-Middleasernism" on this side of the world and thats why they did what they did on 9/11.

If you think killing 3k innocent people is justified because we are a free society, you need to get your head examined. They hate freedom of everything, that is why they hate us. We give women rights, they give women the backhand.

Clinton did not sit on his ass and do nothing. He tried to get the same thing done without getting Americans involved, so we just didn't notice.

Clinton basically just talked with the pres of North Korea, then said to the american public "Look, he promised not to pursue nuclear technology, I saved us!" while mr psycho continued his programs behind our backs. If Bush would have already invaded North Korea or took any military action for that matter, liberals would be crying bloody murder that he did not pursue enough diplomatic relations. As it is, now he is being criticized for taking too much diplomatic action. Catch-22 eh?

Bush didn't win the 2000 election. He lost the popular vote and stopped the recount in Florida. The electoral college is broken, as is politics in general. The Republicans have fucked themselves over with the help of right-wing religious groups who now have no interest in touching politics because of bad publicity, thus ensuring little to no support of conservatism in politics. Conservatism is a huge hypocracy that is now based on big money and big business.

Didn't win the election because he stopped the recount? I believe Bush had 0 power back then (Gore would arguably have more since he was the vice president). After the first recount decided, yet again, gore had lost the election, the supreme court stepped in and said "Get the fuck over it you lost mr Gore, no more recounts." Electoral college system, I agree, needs some revision though. But seriously, give the fuck up over the whole 2000 election thing.

Name one right-wing religious group that has fucked over the republicans? Christians? lol. What has fucked over the Republicans are immoral scandals and their complete absence of core conservative values. Conservatism is not the hypocracy here, republicans are, don't mix the two. I am no republican right now, but damn right I am a conservative.

mmmmm sleeptime

[Charla]

Clinton basically just talked with the pres of North Korea, then said to the american public "Look, he promised not to pursue nuclear technology, I saved us!" while mr psycho continued his programs behind our backs. If Bush would have already invaded North Korea or took any military action for that matter, liberals would be crying bloody murder that he did not pursue enough diplomatic relations. As it is, now he is being criticized for taking too much diplomatic action. Catch-22 eh?

The way I heard it that's what Jimmy Carter did, after Clinton asked him not to. (way to be a team player there Carter). And yes, it was a catch 22, which is why Clinton was trying to do the real diplomatic work away from the TV cameras, so he could get something done without getting yelled at by conservatives for it. Of course this is all based on what I read in Newsweek a while back, so you might just know better than me anyway.

If you think killing 3k innocent people is justified because we are a free society, you need to get your head examined. They hate freedom of everything, that is why they hate us. We give women rights, they give women the backhand.

There are plenty of people who "give women the backhand" and don't have to kill anyone that doesn't. It's a lot deeper than hating our freedom, although that might be part of it. As for the 3k innocent people, you're right. But don't forget that a whole lot more Iraqi civilians than that have died in the last few years. It's just collateral damage to us, but it's still death. And Iraq didn't do anything to us first, whether or not Saddam would have eventually.

[RanDom_ErrOr]

There are plenty of people who "give women the backhand" and don't have to kill anyone that doesn't. It's a lot deeper than hating our freedom, although that might be part of it. As for the 3k innocent people, you're right. But don't forget that a whole lot more Iraqi civilians than that have died in the last few years. It's just collateral damage to us, but it's still death. And Iraq didn't do anything to us first, whether or not Saddam would have eventually.

you forgetting iraq invading kuwait and setting ablaze a large portion of their oil wells back in 1990ish? (yes, this was actually still in effect till we went back to finish the job)

While you might think that this war with Iraq is a new thing, pres. Bush (old) signed a "Cease Fire Agreement" which Iraq has violated on numerous ocassions. That in itself gave us the right to go back into Iraq. Combine that with the fact that he has openly stated how he hates America, and the infedels living within it, should give you some hint at what he would like to see happen to you.

What makes this country great is the fact that you have the ability to say what you want to say about polotics without fear of backlash. (for the most part)

However, with the current political wind, and these bills being signed into law, one has to wonder how long it is until we ourselves are faced with a situation where we no longer have the freedom to speak.

Now, I wont argue the reason for going into Iraq in the first place, however, if we were to pull out of Iraq mid-coitus, it would be a huge political disaster for america, and would most likely spawn a large amount of domestic terrorism. If we were to do that, we would be seen as weak, and it would be a good oppertunity for those who wish to harm us to take action.

My grandfather who fought in WW2 thinks America is pathetic in this regard. No matter how you got into a war, you have to finish it in a convincing fashion or you will be seen as weak.

Your grandfather is a smart man, America as of now is one of the weakest nations in the world imho due to the rampant "jump-on-the-bandwagon" attitude that people have. Take a look at the Vietnam war, 90% of people durring the first of the war were PRO-war, with increased media coverage, blatent lies, and political sabotage, that 90% turned to 10% and we had a president resign due to the fallout of the situation. (keep in mind, that has been the only case of a president resigning office ever)

If you want to place blame on anyone for our current situation, place it on the American public for becoming so complacent. 90% of people are unaware of what is going on in the political arena because the only thing they listen to is the media and nothing else. They allow the decision to be made for them instead of making it for themselves.

[Raineer]

If you want to place blame on anyone for our current situation, place it on the American public for becoming so complacent. 90% of people are unaware of what is going on in the political arena because the only thing they listen to is the media and nothing else. They allow the decision to be made for them instead of making it for themselves.

This deserves to be on a plaque somewhere.