Random Idea for a New Expansion

[Gares]

You say if you dont want to do it, dont, but it isnt that simple. This game is an item-heavy game. If the item is worth getting, then people will feel forced to partake.

No it's simple. By your logic Purgonurgo, is an empty zone, because nobody wants to do anything there, right? You then said if these zones were implimented, nobody would go and it would end up being a new Purgonurgo.

But now you're pulling a 180' and saying they'll go because they feel forced to meet their matieral needs. Sounds like any old HNM camp to me. But you're afraid of being PKed. That's the whole attraction. It's something other than, zone into Dragon's Aery, deploy multiple bots and go make a sandwich.

Summing up your arguement up to now. You've said.
1: Nobody will use this zone, it's a new empty zone, bad idea.
2: Wait wait, I might use that zone to go get those items!
3: People might PK other people to get the items for themselves, now what!?

Do you not understand the nature of the OP?

If you don't wanna go to a zone period, you dont' go. If you wanna go because you feel forced to partake in the rewards you could grow some balls, form a plan, and step into the deep end of the pool, that's a crude way to sum up my idea.

[Delekii]

Ok, let me explain it simply.


I want to be the best at my job that I can be. That means, I need the item from that NM.


I DONT want to partake in stupid PvP with moronic 12 year old gankers like there are in other games, which has been a major selling point of FFXI since its inception.



What do I do?

[Gares]

Ok, let me explain it simply.

I want to be the best at my job that I can be. That means, I need the item from that NM.

I DONT want to partake in stupid PvP with moronic 12 year old gankers like there are in other games, which has been a major selling point of FFXI since its inception.

What do I do?

Here's my answer. You can't always have it both ways, so you can either

1: Not enter this zone because you might get PKed.

2: If you wanna go because you feel forced to partake in the rewards you could grow some balls, form a plan, and step into the deep end of the pool.

[Elmer the Pointy]

I think his point is why should he have to "grow balls and step into the deep end".

FFXI is based on PvE, so there's not much point to completely alter that just to make one zone more "interesting".

And by interesting, I mean completely monopolized by RMT and abused for powerlevelling.

[Gares]

I have to disagree, I say it's not completely altering the P vs E aspect of the game it's adding more flavor.

I think his point is why should he have to "grow balls and step into the deep end".

And nobody ever said ya have to, idc if Delekki ever grows a pair, someone else will. I've never heard of anyone being marched into a FFXI zone at gunpoint, until that happens I stand by the idea.

[Cjskater]

What do I do?

POS

[Xiona]

actually a ganker is someone who is way over your level or signifigantly over geared compared to you.

if you wanna be the best you can be then technically youll never be close to that if you cant deal with killing other players

no worries though, ffxi will always have its crappy pvp substitute and never add real pvp zones =p

[Elmer the Pointy]

I have to disagree, I say it's not completely altering the P vs E aspect of the game it's adding more flavor.

I could add more flavor to my Cheerios by peeing on them, but I'd rather go with milk.

[Gares]

I could add more flavor to my Cheerios by peeing on them, but I'd rather go with milk.

ok I LOL'd. You got your high note in there. It's a Tommy Boy knockoff but kudos none the less. When it comes down to PvP, I honestly think it's a Cat vs Dog person thing. Some people are going to like it, some aren't. Ballista is a terrible substitute for PvP, the whole attraction of PvP is you never know whats going to happen, you don't know who's gunning for you til it happens.

Touching back on what I said before, it depends on how you approach it. Alot of people would be bringing different plans into zones like these and watching those plans unfold on the battlefield is entertaining any way you look at it.

[Xiona]

i think ballista in latin roughly translates to, "run away like a giant pussy"

[Delekii]

I have to disagree, I say it's not completely altering the P vs E aspect of the game it's adding more flavor.

I think his point is why should he have to "grow balls and step into the deep end".

And nobody ever said ya have to. I never heard of anyone being marched into a FFXI zone at gunpoint. Until then, I stand by the idea.

Dear god, I feel like Im talking to a brick wall.

Forcing people to take part in PvP to obtain a goal with no other method of obtaining it in the game is, ready for it, MAKING them do it. I mean, taking it on a completely liberal sense there is nothing in this game one HAS to do. You dont HAVE to xp - you can run around your home town as a level 1 for 3 years. You dont HAVE to get your af - you can be a gimp for eternity. You dont HAVE to rank up or get an airship pass - you can just make your parties wait for you.

There is literal HAVE to, and there is logical HAVE to. In an item driven game, where all skill being equal your items have a big effect on your character's strength, an item that is as strong or stronger than haidates for every job is something most people would feel they HAVE to have, or HAVE to strive toward. Ofcourse my account isnt going to be deleted if I dont, but if I want my character to be as strong as the next, I HAVE to take part in that area.


Im not even going to bother arguing the merits of a non-pvp game to people that enjoy full and open pvp. If you do, you joined the wrong game. FFXI is not a pvp game, and there are hundreds of threads on the issue which you can find spattered throughout the history of allakhazam. The issue with THIS idea in particular, is that not only does it introduce open PvP, it does it in such a manner that it becomes an integral part of the game which one must partake in if they want to be the best at their job. I LIKE being good at my jobs, I like getting the best equipment I can for my jobs, and I HATE PvP. That is why I play FFXI, and not one of the other games. If you like something different, play something different.

If you read the background to ballista you would know that it is not meant to be open warfare. It is training, it is like a sport, and it is meant to be a test of your skill in given circumstances, nothing more. Like I said, if you want open PvP where anyone can kill you at any time, you are playing the wrong game. Gares was right, its Cats and Dogs. If you are a Dog, why are you playing a game for Cats? Or whichever way you want to spin it.

[Elmer the Pointy]

I could add more flavor to my Cheerios by peeing on them, but I'd rather go with milk.

ok I LOL'd. You got your high note in there, kudos.

Hurray! Good luck with your idea thing, I'm going to sleep.

[Gares]

GJ Delekki that post speaks alot more than your bunny with a pancake post. If only you posted that before you posted the, "Nobody will go there, except me, to get items so I can be the best at my job, but I won't go there, cause I don't wanna PKed"

I agree, the basic makeup of FFXI is P vs E. I still don't think an idea like this is forcing anyone to be involved. If you tried it and were totally turned off, I doubt you'd wanna do it again. I'm convinced others would do it again, because people like PvP and it would create another facet in end game FFXI. Why be a cats only game when it can be a cat & dog game.

I do admit there are many flaws in the idea, it's a rough draft I came up with in a short amount of time. I didn't put the idea out there cause I thought it was some super solution to FFXI being a cats only game. I put it out there to see what kind of creative juices would flow from it. Maybe someone can take these ideas & run with them, maybe someone can add to it, or change it and make it better.

By opening up FFXI to more than just P vs E and adding an interesting PvP/PK aspect (in very small way), it would break the sterotype that FFXI is all about getting to 75 then deploying multiple cheats to rake in items. Any computer program can be outsmarted, or cheated, or exploited, PvP/PK is a real person you're fighting, and sometimes you don't know you're fighting til you're staring down the working end of their weapon. It gets people acting on instinct more than acting on programs.

I know there are people that play FFXI because it offers a safe enviorment where people can't just lash out at you for no reason. These zones would be a paintball arena at best. You can't just drive around shooting paintballs outta your car, so you go to a place where it's allowed. Saying that there should be no places where it's allowed because you don't wanna do the work to get the reward, that's just plain ignorant.

[Rosencrantz]

FFXI jobs aren't balanced enough to do this.

Watch WOW, and L2. All jobs got pretty good solo abilities and well played or with a good template, every single class can kill another.

Now watch Final Fantasy XI and i'll put this as an example:
What a BRD, a COR or a SMN would do versus a BLU, a RDM or a BST. I don't even speak about BLM's who can pretty much one shot 4 people at same time (I'm speaking about good endgame BLM's) or thieves and their insane evasion for any melee job.

Here you got the 1 job people bitching about how they can't get these good pvp items (i guess by "gamebreaking" you mean pvp items like WOW rank 12 or 13 ones) because their job is directed towards team playing.
Yeah, a free PvP area would be good, but just for fun and no reward, so people wouldnt have to wait for an uncap ballista or have to gather in a Diorama. A dual option would be fun too, since you could just dual people while lfg or waiting to gather at dynamis/DA windows, etc... But if you think PK'ing notion is good in MMO, you're wrong. It's terribly annoying. L2 system got this Karma thing which refrain you from free PK or you can basically fuck up your char if you're not powerful enough or at least waste tons of time. WOW got 2 factions, it isnt really PK since it's one of the bases of the game to fight vs your online "enemies" + you lose nothing dying in PvP besides pride.

And you're speakin to someone who had an Abyss Walker in L2 and a Shadow Priest in WOW for a while, i wasn't especially a victim (Ie i wouldnt hesitate more than 1 sec to go in your open PK zone and go -ga people on my BLM to farm my new gamebreaking item). What's the point in killing weak people? Need a challenge or you got no fun.

[Alistaire]

I have to disagree, I say it's not completely altering the P vs E aspect of the game it's adding more flavor.

I think his point is why should he have to "grow balls and step into the deep end".

And nobody ever said ya have to. I never heard of anyone being marched into a FFXI zone at gunpoint. Until then, I stand by the idea.

Dear god, I feel like Im talking to a brick wall.

You are talking to a brick wall. This should've been obvious by page 2.

[Lithiani]

I stopped reading the OP at the mention of "open PvP".

I would explain why, but instead I will merely quote for truth.

Forcing people to take part in PvP to obtain a goal with no other method of obtaining it in the game is, ready for it, MAKING them do it. I mean, taking it on a completely liberal sense there is nothing in this game one HAS to do. You dont HAVE to xp - you can run around your home town as a level 1 for 3 years. You dont HAVE to get your af - you can be a gimp for eternity. You dont HAVE to rank up or get an airship pass - you can just make your parties wait for you.

There is literal HAVE to, and there is logical HAVE to. In an item driven game, where all skill being equal your items have a big effect on your character's strength, an item that is as strong or stronger than haidates for every job is something most people would feel they HAVE to have, or HAVE to strive toward. Ofcourse my account isnt going to be deleted if I dont, but if I want my character to be as strong as the next, I HAVE to take part in that area.

I've quit MMO games before now because the progress I wanted to make was cockblocked by PvP "content". I use that term loosely, because as far as I could tell, that "content" amounted to a dev-sponsored grief tool.

I like FFXI because there isn't any PvP. That is it's selling point.

[Plow]

First off, Delekii, you are the biggest pansy I have ever heard, and the reason you don't want pvp to matter at all is clearly because you're not up to the challenge. Come back to talk about pvp when you can handle even the thought of losing a pvp fight, let alone actually trying to win one.

Now obviously some things could be abused, the exp part would be pretty retarded, etc. Of course you could do something like WoW has where first time you kill someone you get 100% honor for their rank, 2nd time 75%, 3rd 50%, 4th 25%, any more than that 0. That would eliminate power leveling on any one person. You could also make it like 5 exp per kill, which would eliminate the power leveling period.

You could make the 3rd zone kick you out after XXX time, and not necessarily lock you out, just make you have to traverse the first 2 again. There goes the rmt staying locked up in zone 3.

And hell, you could make the bigass mob straight up drop haidate, ridills, etc, etc, etc. You don't wanna get killed for using those bots like little bitches? Take your ass to aery. There goes "zomg I can't get the item I want cuz I suck ballz at pvp."

And lastly, if you go into a zone like that alone, and aren't damn well prepared for what you're going to meet inside, you deserve to die.

Obviously the idea could use fine tuning and shit, nobody's just gonna come up with a perfect expansion that everyone in the entire game loves on a whim.

But overall it sounds like it could be some fun to me. Anything that provides an opportunity for me to straight up do something to stop the rmt's and hackers face to face (char to char lol) sounds like fun to me.

[layoneil]

Final Fantasy XI: Lineage XI

go play that game.

[layoneil]

closing that thread was really lame.

Just because you don't like the idea doesn't mean people can't discuss it.

I've never complained to an admin about closing a thread before, I just found that particular closing with the obvious attitude of "I don't like pvp, so you're not gonna talk about it" to be pretty out of line with the standards here.

1) if there's some remote basis on fact i don't care what anyone says about anything. if you want to take 3 words out of a Sage Sundi interview and make a 300 page thread out of it, go for it. SE hasn't talked about changes/additions to PvP in months.

when there are no hints, no clues, no suggestions, and its a completely "Random Idea", go to one of the many SE events, go to the discussion panel and ask your question. when you get any kind of answer you can quote that and talk about it all you want. barring that you can take it here: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=29 SE doesn't read BG forums for "Random Ideas".

2) i set the standards here, if you don't like it then leave.