PUP endgame?

[Toth]

A well-geared DRG can put up some nice DD numbers, use Angon effectively on high defense mobs, and WS decently. Dismissing DRG as useless seems so 2004/2005 as the job has been systemically improved over that time. PUP will follow that path. I can say with some confidence that PUP will have its own day in the sun too. Till then, PUP is an amusing diversion from the dull monotomy of end game activities.

It brings nothing to the table, therefor it is useless.

It can bring something though. Check the Attachment threads for some reports on what the job can do endgame. PUPs aren't as useless as people think.

[Elmer the Pointy]

Speaking strictly of endgame, right now PUP only brings disappointment to the table.
Think of it in terms of the roles you need to fill when fighting HNM/gods and even Limbus/Dynamis.

Damage Dealer - PUP can't generate enough to warrant leaving out a traditional melee job. The skill level and equip just isn't there

Healer - Lots of +MP equip, but even a DRG is more efficient with Heal Breath

Tank - No chance against lvl 80+ enemies

Crowd Control - Maybe with a Valoredge frame holding an extra mob, but Sleep and Lullaby are much more effective

Support - Besides Flash, PUP has no abilities that effect party performance

Magic Damage - Robot will only spam Water III or Aero III(merits). Bursting is impossible to time without everyone's cooperation

Enfeebling - Limited array of enfeebles, which include DoT spells that may be unwanted in certain situations


Surely PUP has a variety of things it can do, but I see 'role' defined as something a job does well enough for people to say "We can have the PUP do this."

PUP may never have its glory, but I'm sure there is more left to be added for it. Frames, attachments, equip? It still has no final WS, no AF2, no HQ AF sets either or JSE and no level2 merits. It's also relatively new and underutilized.

I kinda feel like a traitor dumping on PUP, but I like to understand my limits. Otherwise you go around saying stuff like "PUP is FFXI on HARD MODE!!" and I die a little inside. It's my favorite job and I do everything with it low level or high level. However, as it stands presently I have to agree it is unecessary and has no real purpose in endgame play.

[Tomino]

sound very similar to drg and bst....

first analogy that comes to my mind is with SMN.

SMN started as a job who could summon quite useless Spirits+Carby.
Then they added the 6 celestials but things still sucked.
Then they added BP70 and pimped avatar stats.
Now and then they addeded Fenrir, and Diabolos.

So i'm waiting for PUP's equivalent to BP70 in december patch. or so.

[vagus]

At one time we thought pld/nin was outrageous. Who would have thought a ninja subbing anything besides /war would be effective (/brd & /drk). Who would have known blu mage are effective at Tiamat (cannonball). Lots of things have yet to be tested. I'm curious to see what the frames can do. We shall see what SE has instore for Pup.

I love people who think outside the box. Lets see some discussion ^.^b.

-V

[Charla]

I think Elmer and Tomino's posts was the discussion. That sums it up nicely for me at least.

[spooky]

PUP is the new BST, suck it up.

[Rocl]

whatever that guy was wearing a leopard skin jacket

[Coldplay4tw]

It's just another BST and loldrg.


Who knows tho, maybe SE has plans for the next expansion!
Be cool to see if SE actually made some of these jobs usefull for something and not just some job the main FF community point fun at

[Lithiani]

Here's a thought. PUP Kiter. Especially for the "initial aggro kite" situations. They have a naturally high evasion, can stack a LOT of +Evade gear, have those +Enmity Sainti, and you can set the Automaton up to throw (hateless?) cures, if I remember the PUP tanking flamewars correctly.

Tell me why I'm stupid.

[Plow]

Maybe you can convince a bst+smn wyrm team to take you in

[Lylie]

sound very similar to drg and bst....

first analogy that comes to my mind is with SMN.

SMN started as a job who could summon quite useless Spirits+Carby.
Then they added the 6 celestials but things still sucked.
Then they added BP70 and pimped avatar stats.
Now and then they addeded Fenrir, and Diabolos.

So i'm waiting for PUP's equivalent to BP70 in december 2008 patch. or so.

I'm sure SE'll fix the job, one day. Now all you need is patience, because SE won't fix anything before one/two year(s).

[SamanosukeShiva]

MAYBE, PUP will stop being gimp if they have asuran fists

[Kenai]

MAYBE, PUP will stop being gimp if they have asuran fists

/no

All 3 new jobs are something severly different from other jobs...BLU is the first true front line mage, COR is the first support job to also have considerable DD, and PUP is the first DD to rely more on the pet abilities than the weapons/abilities of itself. It just so happens that SE has a "history" with pet classes and scaling up, per se...

PUP really only needs a few things now, and each update they have provided some VERY nice upgrades considering that it has never officially been worked at with terms to endgame scenarios, just been given tide-me-overs. COR and BLU still have the same basic spells, abilities, and equipment that they have had since they were released (except for AF), while PUP has gotten over double the attachments it had at the start. It's simply the most unfinished of the 3, and when people stop looking at the H2H skill and start looking at what the puppet *might* be capable of by the time ToAU is done, there's quite a lot of speculation (granted, that doesn't matter now).

Just a few new puppet weaponskills to replace the crappy ones they have now (the same WS through 75 is crappy), a rehauled Overdrive, a few more "special" and unique functions like Flashbulb and Shock Absorber, and we'd be talking serious business (not even gonna mention the AFv2, new attachments, and new frames that have already been mentioned/obvious). You can't compare to other melee in a lot of aspects because it simply isn't anything like the previous ones...a year ago no one would have believed a mage could be a front line DD, or a support job could also DD...give PUP a little bit more time...it WAS rushed.

Edit: grammarrrrrrr

[Lordender]

this thread reminds me of the one someone posted about the relic lance fully upgraded that went like 45pages with nothing but loldrg. People are just going to flame these kinds of threads ;;

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

this thread reminds me of the one someone posted about the relic lance fully upgraded that went like 45pages with nothing but loldrg. People are just going to flame these kinds of threads ;;

The DRG in question who got the Relic was, in fact, a lolDRG. We still need a good DRG to get the damn thing to see what it can do.

[DragonCloud64]

While it lacks in most end-game departments, higher-end pup solo is very good. With about 265 evasion w/ merits and evasion torque, and a good suppy of Cure IV's pup has a lot of solo potential.

[Khamsin]

Yeah.. Its not quite endgame, but I was soloing T crabs for my level last night since I wasn't getting any invites. Then another PUP asked me to duo, and we basically raped all the T crabs and pugils in the river in Misareaux Coast for 100-200xp per kill, and up to chain 4 or 5. Never had to rest, either, unless it was to afk a moment to take care of something.

The main difficulty a PUP would have solo is keeping hate off their automaton. The higher level you are, the easier this is because you do more damage, faster.

Secondary issues are handling the special abilities of the mobs you fight. The Eraser attachment helps a ton. It was erasing my Slow from pugil Intimidate, which was nice. But what sucks is if you fight something like beetles or bats that spam AoE debuffs, and your automaton keeps clearing your maneuvers erasing it from itself and you... in those cases, don't use Eraser.

Physical AoEs are a pain, but not that big of a problem, since the automaton does a good job of keeping itself, and you, alive. It has an endless MP pool with Mana Converter, too. I had a crap party a while back where our NIN was apparently an RMT that didn't understand anything (least of all, how to tank) and we had only a RDM for healing. We were fighting flies, spamming Cursed Sphere, and I was sub /WAR for first voke for SATA... only the NIN didn't understand this, so I ended up being the one being SATA'd upon. Needless to say, my Stormwaker and I took a lot of damage during the course of that party, and yet we survived well enough without losing my automaton or dying myself.

[Plow]

this thread reminds me of the one someone posted about the relic lance fully upgraded that went like 45pages with nothing but loldrg. People are just going to flame these kinds of threads ;;

The DRG in question who got the Relic was, in fact, a lolDRG. We still need a good DRG to get the damn thing to see what it can do.

Yeah it sucks but that thread got what that guy deserved.

[Elmer the Pointy]

I'm a Dragoon and everything you hate about Dragoons, we hate about Dragoons.
It's like our own civil war... and you got the Dragoons, and the lolDRGs.

I like Dragoons, but I hate lolDRGs.
Everytime Dragoons want to have a good time, ignorant ass lolDRGs gotta fck it up.
Can't keep a party going for more than 20 minutes... Grand Opening! Grand Closing!
Can't go to Lower Jeuno no more cuz lolDRGs are /shouting for help. "Hey, my AF Helm is so good I gotta bust a /shout up in here!"

There's nothing an lolDRG likes better than wearing full AF. "Hey lolDRG, what body piece you have?"
"I gots me Drachen Mail! I keeps it real!"

lolDRGs love to keep it real... real gimp

fe fi fo fragoon, boy I hates an lolDRG

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

You can replace Dragoon and DRG with Dark Knight and DRK (also change a few details) and that post keeps all its truthiness.