PUP endgame?

[nekoshoonen]

Lithiani wrote:
Lithiani wrote:
Here's a thought. PUP Kiter. Especially for the "initial aggro kite" situations. They have a naturally high evasion, can stack a LOT of +Evade gear, have those +Enmity Sainti, and you can set the Automaton up to throw (hateless?) cures, if I remember the PUP tanking flamewars correctly.

Tell me why I'm stupid.


I realise we're enjoying bitching about lolDRG and PUPs, but this was a genuine attempt to find a good use for them. Thoughts?

PUP:Evasion B 250
NIN:Evasion A- 269
THF:Evasion A+ 276
Also
Monk: B+ 256
Samurai: B+ 256

Tell your sams to wear SH and voke!

yes but a SAM doesn't have a pet that keeps them cure... freeing up a healer having to chase the kiter to keep him/her alive. i dunno the idea intrigues me.
Bad quoting but who cares =p

[Khamsin]

Not to mention, in initial aggro kite situations, you can't rely on your automaton to cure you because the moment you engage one of the mobs you are kiting (to allow your automaton to cure you), you can lose hate. You can't lose hate if you never touch the mobs.

Unless you put your automaton on the mob everyone is fighting, then run by your automaton when you need a cure, in which case it might work. But its no big deal about it being hateless, because a cure from any mage will be hateless as well in that situation.

You can get curebombed all day long from a RDM and never lose hate when you are initial aggro kiting, and no one has touched the mobs.

[cassiraa]

Not to mention, in initial aggro kite situations, you can't rely on your automaton to cure you because the moment you engage one of the mobs you are kiting (to allow your automaton to cure you), you can lose hate. You can't lose hate if you never touch the mobs.

do you need to attack for the puppet to cure? I ask because just engaging shouldn't cause any hate and you should still have 'initial aggro'

[Ahkow]

imho i think that pup is useful at lower lvls when there are no ninjas and pld available but only have War . Occasional flashes and provoke makes war able to tank at that lvl .

As for end game , i cant find anything that is useful .

[Faranim]

Not to mention, in initial aggro kite situations, you can't rely on your automaton to cure you because the moment you engage one of the mobs you are kiting (to allow your automaton to cure you), you can lose hate. You can't lose hate if you never touch the mobs.

do you need to attack for the puppet to cure? I ask because just engaging shouldn't cause any hate and you should still have 'initial aggro'

You (the puppermaster) don't have to engage, but the Automaton has to be "Deployed" (aka, Assault/Engaged) on SOMETHING before it will cast any spells or use any attachments. It's not like a NPC Fellow that will cast cure as soon as your HP is low.

[Elmer the Pointy]

Maybe, but then what's DoT? Everyone I know refers to things such as SATA Ground Strike, -aga III, SAMs Meding then WSing as "Spike Damage". And WAR/NINs, MNKs, NINs, all as DoT.

He seems to think the only thing that's really 'DoT' is shitty DoT...I dunno, like a PUP. And of course no one in the game wants that.

Of course all meleeing is technically DoT, but it seems like a WAR for is more defined by omgRampage 2000dmg than its DoT. It's that Rampage I refer to as Spike Damage. Like an EKG meter steady damage hit after hit and them SPIKE Rampage damage.

Everyone has special gear sets for building TP and then a special set for max WS damage. It's all about setting up the most amazing blast of damage possible so you can tell your linkshell about it.

That's what I was getting at. Am I totally off? It seems like these trends change every week.

[Plow]

[quote=Elmer the Pointy]

Maybe, but then what's DoT? Everyone I know refers to things such as SATA Ground Strike, -aga III, SAMs Meding then WSing as "Spike Damage". And WAR/NINs, MNKs, NINs, all as DoT.

He seems to think the only thing that's really 'DoT' is shitty DoT...I dunno, like a PUP. And of course no one in the game wants that.

Of course all meleeing is technically DoT, but it seems like a WAR for is more defined by omgRampage 2000dmg than its DoT. It's that Rampage I refer to as Spike Damage. Like an EKG meter steady damage hit after hit and them SPIKE Rampage damage.

Everyone has special gear sets for building TP and then a special set for max WS damage. It's all about setting up the most amazing blast of damage possible so you can tell your linkshell about it.

That's what I was getting at. Am I totally off? It seems like these trends change every week.[/quote:8688f]

This is not the case with warrior, or monk, at all. Warriors and Monks thrive on DoT. When comparing a parse of monk or war vs almost any other job, the other jobs will generally win in total ws dmg, but the mnks and wars will have such dramatically higher DoT that the ws don't matter much at all.

If it were really about the spike dmg, drk would be king, nothing else compares to souleater dmg, and drk WS are generally as strong as/stronger than any others.

WAR= DOT + decent ws
MNK= DOT + decent ws
SAM= lolsamdot + decent ws, used often
DRK= loldrkdot+sick ws
LOLDRG= loldrgdot + semi-decent ws
LOLPUP= lolpupdot + lolpupws

I think that's a decent explanation...

[Elmer the Pointy]

WAR= DOT + decent ws
MNK= DOT + decent ws
SAM= lolsamdot + decent ws, used often
DRK= loldrkdot+sick ws
LOLDRG= loldrgdot + semi-decent ws
LOLPUP= lolpupdot + lolpupws

I think that's a decent explanation...

I guess I was off then. Your explanation makes sense to me.

[Kenai]

WAR= DOT + decent ws
MNK= DOT + decent ws
SAM= lolsamdot + decent ws, used often
DRK= loldrkdot+sick ws
LOLDRG= loldrgdot+semi-decent ws+lolwyverndot+lolwyvernbreath
LOLPUP= lolpupdot + lolpupws+ lolpuppetdot+lolpuppetws

I think that's a decent explanation...

I guess I was off then. Your explanation makes sense to me.

Fixed a bit.

[Khamsin]

WAR= DOT + decent ws
MNK= DOT + decent ws
SAM= lolsamdot + decent ws, used often
DRK= loldrkdot+sick ws
LOLDRG= loldrgdot+semi-decent ws+lolwyverndot+lolwyvernbreath
LOLPUP= lolpupdot + lolpupws+ lolpuppetdot+lolpuppetws

I think that's a decent explanation...

I guess I was off then. Your explanation makes sense to me.

Fixed a bit.

New job combo! WAR/lolPUP, equip your sub puppet with target marker and attuner, and since the level difference between 37 and whatever you're fighting is so high, the attack/accuracy boost will be astronomical, enabling it to do more loldamage than lolPUP main!

That's the true way SE is expanding subjob choices, not with silly seigan and hasso.

[Kurohyou]

Of course all meleeing is technically DoT, but it seems like a WAR for is more defined by omgRampage 2000dmg than its DoT. It's that Rampage I refer to as Spike Damage.

You're obviously not a WAR. And if you are, you're a shitty WAR.

[Elmer the Pointy]

Of course all meleeing is technically DoT, but it seems like a WAR for is more defined by omgRampage 2000dmg than its DoT. It's that Rampage I refer to as Spike Damage.

You're obviously not a WAR. And if you are, you're a shitty WAR.

EDIT: Forget it, I'll just IM him and sort it out


OK, so I figured out that by "spike damage" I originally meant "doing as much damage as fast as possible"

and by DoT I meant "I suck, but in the long run I add up to something"

My FFXI terminology was retarded and I'm chalking it up to late hours and alcohol so to hell with all y'all!!

[miokomioko]

Ugh, why does this thread exist...

PUP has only one use in 'endgame' that no other job can do better. Which is: 'sac'ing a NM over and over without any exp loss. Pretty much only of realistic use on something like AV.

The end... until SE makes some big adjustments. So far, their tiny tweaks have only made the job slightly funner, and actually not increased their usefulness in real situations whatsoever.

[Khamsin]

Ugh, why does this thread exist...

PUP has only one use in 'endgame' that no other job can do better. Which is: 'sac'ing a NM over and over without any exp loss. Pretty much only of realistic use on something like AV.

The end... until SE makes some big adjustments. So far, their tiny tweaks have only made the job slightly funner, and actually not increased their usefulness in real situations whatsoever.

A level 4 BST could do it better.

[Ravenlokk]

or a 75 RDM ;_; i lost a lot of xp holding........ /cry
until a lvl 5 came and delvld to 3 a few times for us :X

[miokomioko]

without any exp loss

...or setting homepoints, or anything. They can just stand in one spot and endlessly aggro-deggro anything every minute, keeping any poppable NM from depopping.

I don't think a lv.4 BST can do it better, actually.

[solsovly]

without any exp loss

...or setting homepoints, or anything. They can just stand in one spot and endlessly aggro-deggro anything every minute, keeping any poppable NM from depopping.

I don't think a lv.4 BST can do it better, actually.

Unless they fixed the agro/deagro trick of pup, then yeah. Pup can keep it from depopping much better. Before the ADD "nerf" I was bored and wanted to see if I could kill a VT mob (around lvl 15ish) by continually having it agro with a DoT and deagroing it. Ten minutes later I got my kill. You are fucked if you puppet accidently hits the mob or vice versa before you can dismiss him.

[Sixtail]

WAR= DOT + decent ws
MNK= DOT + decent ws
SAM= lolsamdot + decent ws, used often
DRK= loldrkdot+sick ws
LOLDRG= loldrgdot+semi-decent ws+lolwyverndot+lolwyvernbreath
LOLPUP= lolpupdot + lolpupws+ lolpuppetdot+lolpuppetws

I think that's a decent explanation...

I guess I was off then. Your explanation makes sense to me.

Fixed a bit.

That's the best fix ever.