How does your Dynamis LS Operate? (aka BLM/NIN vs BLM/RDM)

[layoneil]

BLM/NIN is useless for everything in the game except... soloing wyverns in Riverne 50 cap, and possibly KingV if you kill slow enough to get hit by more than 2 AOEs.

Jailer of Fortitude in 30 seconds.

[Seditedi]

We weren't talking about other aspects, we were talking about survivability, and utsusemi negates the need for protect 2, shell 2, stoneskin, blink, and phalanx. I never ask to be healed as BLM/NIN, and if the BLMs in your LS do they're evidently as bad as you are.

None of our BLM go /NIN bc it is trash.. lol

edit: Kaylia, Suiram had mentioned using Sleep + Bind, my comment on that was towards him. Mithra can get Sorcerer's Ring latent always on too :D. LS mate gets it working as Elvaan. (and no he doesn't have full zenith, hehe)

[Suiram]

Sleep is only for if Bind resists, sounds like I do it the same as Kaylia. You just keep assuming an aweful lot and digging yourself a deeper hole.

[Kaylia]

We weren't talking about other aspects, we were talking about survivability, and utsusemi negates the need for protect 2, shell 2, stoneskin, blink, and phalanx. I never ask to be healed as BLM/NIN, and if the BLMs in your LS do they're evidently as bad as you are.

None of our BLM go /NIN bc it is trash.. lol

edit: Kaylia, Suiram had mentioned using Sleep + Bind, my comment on that was towards him. Mithra can get Sorcerer's Ring latent always on too :D. LS mate gets it working as Elvaan. (and no he doesn't have full zenith, hehe)

Tell me how without some retarded mp<-->hp setup like serket+ vivian ring, or 5 zenith. >_> I don't want to be 65/60 either (55/60 when I carry all my blm gear around). I also have hp merit from my warrior.

[Suiram]

It takes a 'retarded HP > MP' setup but it's not as bad as you think. If this stat calculator is right you have 965 base HP on Mithra, 975 with your merit, 985 if you wear prism cape. So you need to take off 247 HP. Your mitts count for 50 even if you're wearing them (i.e. you can be 738/935 79% with mitts on and it should still activate unless they patched it), so you need 4 other pieces of zenith/serket/vivian to macro on and off.

[Kerberoz]

BLM/NIN is useless for everything in the game except... soloing wyverns in Riverne 50 cap, and possibly KingV if you kill slow enough to get hit by more than 2 AOEs.

Jailer of Fortitude in 30 seconds.

Can do that with /RDM just fine. Stoneskin Blink Barthunder/Barblizzard.

In fact every inside sea NM besides Temperence can be killed by 3 BLM/RDMs. Not in 30 seconds, obviously, but you get the idea.

I still fail to see how /NIN is ever better than /RDM. In some circumstances it's not any worse, but when is it outright better? Never. You mention a skilled BLM/NIN won't take damage in dynamis. Neither will a skilled BLM/RDM. The difference is the BLM/RDM is completely autonomous and can deal with emergency situations much, much better than the BLM/NIN. Utsusemi is not the god of FFXI...

[Not Kuno]

BLM/NIN is useless for everything in the game except... soloing wyverns in Riverne 50 cap, and possibly KingV if you kill slow enough to get hit by more than 2 AOEs.

Jailer of Fortitude in 30 seconds.

Can do that with /RDM just fine. Stoneskin Blink Barthunder/Barblizzard.

Not a snowballs chance in hell lol

[Kaylia]

It takes a 'retarded HP > MP' setup but it's not as bad as you think. If this stat calculator is right you have 965 base HP on Mithra, 975 with your merit, 985 if you wear prism cape. So you need to take off 247 HP. Your mitts count for 50 even if you're wearing them (i.e. you can be 738/935 79% with mitts on and it should still activate unless they patched it), so you need 4 other pieces of zenith/serket/vivian to macro on and off.

2 hp merits here. So thats 5 pieces of gears. First of all, I don't have all zenith, only the hand. I could probably get the rotting fee/head tho. Having all 4-5 pieces of gear I need would put my inventory at 60/60. I don't mind carrying stuff on me, but full inventory is retarded.

I still fail to see how /NIN is ever better than /RDM. In some circumstances it's not any worse, but when is it outright better? Never. You mention a skilled BLM/NIN won't take damage in dynamis. Neither will a skilled BLM/RDM. The difference is the BLM/RDM is completely autonomous and can deal with emergency situations much, much better than the BLM/NIN. Utsusemi is not the god of FFXI...

A blm/nin is fully autonomous just like a blm/rdm. What kind of emergency situation are you talking about? The only emergency you will find yourself in as a blm is when a bunch of mobs need to be slept. I know it happened a lot, and I know /nin saved my ass in that situation a lot more often than rdm's /blink/stoneskin would. (sleep 10mobs, 1 or 2 resist). You can also spam nuke as much as you want on NM, something you can't cause of hate issue.

[Seditedi]

I think you fail to understand what autonomous means. BLM/NIN is much more reliant on others for support than BLM/RDM or BLM/WHM is. 1 Drain per minute is not gonna keep you alive without heals from others if you do take some damage. Let alone, you can't even barspell yourself or remove any status effects. BLM/RDM can't use poisona or erase, but can at least put up stoneskin so they can rest MP.

BLM/NIN may survive, but any way you look at it, its gonna be more reliant on other mages to support it compared to a BLM/RDM or BLM/WHM.

[Kaylia]

I think you fail to understand what autonomous means. BLM/NIN is much more reliant on others for support than BLM/RDM or BLM/WHM is. 1 Drain per minute is not gonna keep you alive without heals from others if you do take some damage. Let alone, you can't even barspell yourself or remove any status effects. BLM/RDM can't use poisona or erase, but can at least put up stoneskin so they can rest MP.

BLM/NIN may survive, but any way you look at it, its gonna be more reliant on other mages to support it compared to a BLM/RDM or BLM/WHM.

Why do you keep saying 1 drain per minute wont keep you alive? Are you taking so much dmg on blm you need cure III+ resting + drain to survive? If I happen to take dmg on blm, it's in a situation where I can't heal myself until thing get back under control. When a mobs is pummeling me, curing myself is the last thing I'm going to do. Sleepga, bind, sleep, grav, stun or anything come first. After that, I put back 3 shadow up and will do w/e is needed. On /rdm, there is many situation where I died with blink still up. Crit through stoneskin and ignore blink. You get interupted and next hit finish you off.

For me, cure 3 is only used to heal other, which doesnt happen in dynamis if your alliance isn't totally retarded. It's not needed on /nin, and only used on /rdm to make up for the increase in dmg taken.


In what situation do you use barspell on blm? I do it against wyrms, but I'm not subbing /nin or /rdm on them either (/whm for those, no reason go /rdm).

"na" spell are awesome, and that's why /whm is the 2nd sub I'm using the most after /nin. Rdm doesnt get them like you already mentioned, and that's what we are arguing about (/nin vs /rdm). Stoneskin does help if you get dot'd, but how often is it going to happen? I always carry a stack of remedy on every jobs I play, so I could waste one on poisonga.

Diaga is the killer move on /nin, but it rarely happens. It shouldn't kill you if you arent retarded anyway. Can always sleep the mob, aspir something.

If you are one of those blm who sleepga everything, use all your mp instead of idling, don't fear aga'ing multiple mobs , activates 2 hour before the alliance kill it, chance is /nin will do you more good than /rdm in dynamis. If the only thing you do is nuking statue, and never risk your life in order to be useful, than go for /rdm, you can just run away to heal yourself when thing go ugly. Of course, you could be useful on /rdm too, but your chance of dying are higher than they would on /nin

[nivlakian]

I go to dynamis with Suiram and I also use /nin as blm.


Things that hurt /nin:
Mijin Gakure - If hit by this, sometimes I take so much damage I would have died regardless of sub. Solutions are to stand at max casting range or make sure your group stops mijin from happening by keeping stuns up.

Astral Flow - Much like Mijin, my chance of survival when hit by it was very low to begin with. Obviously, you avoid letting it happen by keeping the avatar asleep or stunning it before it can get it off.

Sleepga - Often it's not the case that I was the only one sleepga missed, so having cure couldn't help anyone unless I happened to wake early. Rare occurence.

Paralyga - both /rdm and /nin are hurt by this spell. Someone else has to paralyna you if you're using one of those two subs unless you happen to bring remedies (I typically don't).

Diaga - /rdm has the advantage here of being able to stoneskin to rest, but if I was not going to be resting soon it seems to be inconsequential. Drain makes up for the damage done once it wears.

Poisonga - As /rdm or /nin, I always have antidotes on me. This does little to affect anything other than wiping shadows. Ni > Antidote.

Silencega - Much like poisonga, I always have echo drops on me. Echo Drop > Ni

Breakga - This shouldn't be given a chance to occur.

Elemental Ga spells - These definately hurt while /nin especially if no one has done shellra in your party since last time it wore. However, getting hit by Ga spells is a rare occurence.

Getting hurt in general - When hurt, drain is necessary to recover HP unless someone else cures you. Attentive BRDs or RDMs often readily cure / curaga. In the event no one cures, I usually am capable of living at lower HP until I drain something (or full HP restore stone).



Good things for /nin:
I can take 3~9 hits with no damage.

Condemnation, Leg Sweep, Wrath of Gudah, Frypan, Oblivion Smash, Foxfire, Body Slam, Single Target nukes, Seismic Stomp, EES etc have no effect on my HP or ability to finish casting provided I've maintained 2 or more shadows.


Overall, any of the subs can be effective in dynamis and it seems to mostly come down to a preference. However, in my group where we have our BLMs primarily focussed on nuking together to kill an mob from full HP, I find /nin to be quite useful in keeping me alive. I can have a mob swing at me numerous times without getting hurt and it ensures I can get sleep off if I need to do so. Stoneskin often lasts one hit especially if critical and blink is unreliable. I don't really find myself in many situations where I felt /rdm would have made some major difference in the outcome of something that is going on.

Edit: The things I fear killing me as /nin most of all are mijin gakure and Kindred NIN or RNG with their AoE ranged attacks (if they are spinning in various directions).

[Kaylia]

^
Someone will argue just for the sake of it, even if you literally said everything.

Rate up.

Edit: The things I fear killing me as /nin most of all are mijin gakure and Kindred NIN or RNG with their AoE ranged attacks (if they are spinning in various directions).

It's true those 2 are painful, but due to demon's speed hax, utsu will still be better in overall against the other 13 jobs. You can also hold NM fine on blm/nin when needed.

[Septimus]

BLM/NIN is useless for everything in the game except... soloing wyverns in Riverne 50 cap, and possibly KingV if you kill slow enough to get hit by more than 2 AOEs.

Jailer of Fortitude in 30 seconds.

Can do that with /RDM just fine. Stoneskin Blink Barthunder/Barblizzard.

Not a snowballs chance in hell lol

Maybe Stoneskin, blink, Barthunder/Barblizzard, Chainspell raise, and -2000xp per person. Delicious one-shots from Burst II...

[Kerberoz]

BLM/NIN is useless for everything in the game except... soloing wyverns in Riverne 50 cap, and possibly KingV if you kill slow enough to get hit by more than 2 AOEs.

Jailer of Fortitude in 30 seconds.

Can do that with /RDM just fine. Stoneskin Blink Barthunder/Barblizzard.

Not a snowballs chance in hell lol

Maybe Stoneskin, blink, Barthunder/Barblizzard, Chainspell raise, and -2000xp per person. Delicious one-shots from Burst II...

Ummm.... okay.... his reflected AM2 has never gotten me below 300-ish HP, but sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night. There's not a single situation endgame where /NIN is better than /WHM or /RDM. Isn't it enough that every other job in the fucking game is a /nin-monkey?

[Not Kuno]

Ummm.... okay.... his reflected AM2 has never gotten me below 300-ish HP, but sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night. There's not a single situation endgame where /NIN is better than /WHM or /RDM. Isn't it enough that every other job in the fucking game is a /nin-monkey?

Do I literally have to spell it out for you? Do you know what happens after you get burst2 with 300 hp left? YOU GET FUCKING RAPED BY THE MOBS HITTING YOU. With /nin you only lose 1 shadow, and can survive it's wses as well as all that shit meleeing you until someone else gets hate.

[Seditedi]

BLM/NIN wont survive a Vorpal Blade. lol

[Dezzimal]

I used /nin for a little while in dynamis. Its a nice utility sub for dynamis lord if you know DL will be paying you a visit due to bad tanks or poor positioning. Other than that, /rdm offers so much more survivability with Fast Cast and Gravity. I used /nin on prudence twice, while he was in berserk mode he pretty much kracken clubbed me for 400 a hit and I didn't even get a chance to recast :ni.

How my shell did (RIP Dynamite) dynamis:
Party setups:
Puller alliance, includes BLMs, 1 THF 1 BRD or RDM in the two BLM parties. WHM/NIN w/ gaiters or NIN puller. WHM to help watch the main puller. Usually 15+ people.

Mob Parties: 6 people max unless there are straggler melees who need somewhere to call home. These are usually set up like merit parties, except we allow DRGs. These parties grab their own mob off the train and kill it, on a good night we have 4-5 of these so we can handle fairly large pulls.

We rarely if ever sleepga. Puller can usually kite the mobs indefinitely except for some cases in jeuno, or in xarc where they run like Kenyans. Xarcabard the BLM alliance goes ahead of everyone and snipes eyes at the NM towers. 6-7 Thunder IVs will oneshot an eye, we time our casts in sync and nothing will aggro. We also do this at the "Wall of Eyes". Once all eyes are cleared out, including the wall of eyes, we go back to help with the NMs. Usually they're up to the NIN or BLM mob by now.

We do some interesting snipes in beaucedine to help get us more time to farm Hydras without having to go and clean that area. There is a statue in the orc NM area by a lake that can be reached from the ledge above it which extends by 15 minutes. You need 3 BLMs to oneshot it.

[Suiram]

I used /nin for a little while in dynamis. Its a nice utility sub for dynamis lord if you know DL will be paying you a visit due to bad tanks or poor positioning. Other than that, /rdm offers so much more survivability with Fast Cast and Gravity. I used /nin on prudence twice, while he was in berserk mode he pretty much kracken clubbed me for 400 a hit and I didn't even get a chance to recast :ni.

/nin is actually awesome for Prudence. 2 shadows > Sinuate Rush. And come on, if he's triple attacking for 400 a hit, you gotta know that stoneskin isn't going to save you lol. With /nin at least you get one full attack round and hope you lose hate or someone else takes it before the next, even if you can't get Ni up in time.

[Dezzimal]

/nin is actually awesome for Prudence. 2 shadows > Sinuate Rush.

Yeah I forgot to mention that. Sinuate Rush tends to oneshot tarus especially after you cause one copy to go into steriod rage mode, unless you go /nin.

I have a pic of the chatlog glitching out at him, basically it looks like this

Dezz starts to cast utsus:ni.
Prudence hits dezz
shadow
prudence hits dezz
shadow
shadow
prudence hits dezz
dezz dies
dezz receives the effect of copy image
shadow
shadow
shadow

[Septimus]

BLM/NIN wont survive a Vorpal Blade. lol

Neither will a BLM/RDM after his/her stoneskin was eaten off by a reflected AMII and is down to 300 HP.

And if it is done right, jFo won't have the time to use Vorpal Blade.