NIN/RDM. On Ultima.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Sounds like you should be mad at the NIN/WAR for forgetting his soap, not the NIN/RDM for taking a different approach to building his hate. I've seen Sleep tanking by a RDM/NIN and it worked really well, they never lost hate on Tiamat. All in all, you're just looking for someone to blame for losing, get off your high horses thinking you're the shit and stop whining about a lost Ultima?

Yeah except that worked and makes a lot more sense. We're talking about trying to hold hate (or even DD) with fucking ninjutsu: san spells.

[XxSlusherxx]

You mean like all 6? cause to have all 6 thats one point in each and San really fails with one upgrade.

not that you give the impression that it was good.

[Michaera]

Sans are actually a pretty nice upgrade for me with just one upgrade in each. The damage increase is good, and with mage-y gear on top of it, it was something like 50% extra damage for me, or something like that. But still, if it gets resisted all the time, it's not really worth the party slot as damage. xD And at something like 8 TP a cast, too. Might as well just use a BLM.

[Stellar]

I think san spells fail with 3 upgrades.. And ultima takes what.. 25-50% magic damage? Subbing rdm and expecting nukes to hold hate is rediculous. Maybe if the goal was MDB, stoneskin and he had massive mp recovery (gjallerhorn or something) and just spamming himself with cure III's for hate then rdm would have some merit.. but still, whm sub and curaga after armor break would be far superior (maybe better mdb?) Pld sub, with flash, is actually really nice and of course there is drk sub, which is what I personally use tanking ultima.

[yrpaine]

and I'm next in line for Nashira Legs. >_<

Ya it sucks having to leave a group when you're next for something, and have to start all over because you didn't put the work in yet for the new group, so your previous efforts are all forefit. but that's endgame hnm for ya, i've left a lot due to some having their head shoved way too far up their ass, and others not wanting to say anything cuz they were afraid to lose what they felt they were next in line for.

[BerenTebogo]

Honestly...if thats the shellholder you're following instructions from, you could make a 10-12 man group and easily have 18 by the time you have enough for 2-3 omega / ultima runs in a row each.

I run a sea / limbus / various other endgame activities shell, I'm not the greatest leader, I don't ALWAYS have the answers, and I do enjoy taking different approaches to things. That being said, thats why I have 100% sane sackholders who I listen to.

Having 1 person, especially an idiot lead a shell is always a bad idea. Tomorrow our only MNK/DRK is on vacation for omega, leaving the spot for "last 25% zerger" open, I'm going NIN/DRK in full haste gear and putting my trust in my WHMs that theyll keep me alive while I destroy that 25%.

Our main tank will be NIN/BRD, and he's ridiculously awesome at it.

New ideas can be good, that's why we HAVE the possibility of NIN/DRK + NIN/BRD + whatever, but seriously, the responsibility is on a leader to listen to suggestions and be the acting voice of his LS. If your leaders an asshat, break off, make something better, and have the people you pass by be pissed at you while you farm up more homam and nashira than they'll ever see.

[Not Kuno]

Nin/Rdm on anything endgame is destined to fail.

[Tomiko]

We're talking about trying to hold hate (or even DD) with fucking ninjutsu: san spells.

Based on:

His ONLY enmity was an Arhat's Gi +1. Everything else was Haste or INT build.

It sounds like his sub and "strategy" wasn't the main problem, but rather his approach and gear.

I don't know how good/bad the Elemental damage is on Ultima (i've yet to even fight it), but if that's his only enmity gear, there's no way he can hold hate. 3 Enmity isn't going to do anything for him, especially as /Rdm and probably as /War as well. Based on what Cass said, it sounds like this Nin was destined to fail no matter what he dubbed.

[Lockecole]

We're talking about trying to hold hate (or even DD) with fucking ninjutsu: san spells.

Based on:

His ONLY enmity was an Arhat's Gi +1. Everything else was Haste or INT build.

It sounds like his sub and "strategy" wasn't the main problem, but rather his approach and gear.

I don't know how good/bad the Elemental damage is on Ultima (i've yet to even fight it), but if that's his only enmity gear, there's no way he can hold hate. 3 Enmity isn't going to do anything for him, especially as /Rdm and probably as /War as well. Based on what Cass said, it sounds like this Nin was destined to fail no matter what he dubbed.

The laughable part is its Ultima. Of all endgame mobs, you dont want to be using already low skill/weak elemental spells on him. I've tried a nuking setup of HQ staves, int/capped Ninjutsu skill (minus cape) and its horrible on endgame mobs still. Its just not a viable means of doing damage when compared to the already obvious ways a NIN can tank and do damage already...not to mention its a horrible way to spam a mob with TP.

I can see having someone in the background who everyone thinks is the Linkshell clown subbing RDM on NIN at an Ultima....but this person is LEADING your LS? Get out now...seriously.

[Mr.City]

Now I'm just waiting for said leader to discover this thread and then the real fun will begin. Sorry to hear the ultima wipe. Hope your leader wises up.

[layoneil]

NIN/RDM works really well on Ultima, the CoP Mission one.

people should stop comparing NIN/RDM to RDM/NIN when the guy was obviously not playing it the same way.

[Lockecole]

NIN/RDM works really well on Ultima, the CoP Mission one.

people should stop comparing NIN/RDM to RDM/NIN when the guy was obviously not playing it the same way.

There was no comparison of the two, someone just mentioned RDM/NIN as being an unorthodox tank, but one that works, unlike NIN/RDM in this instance. There's also a huge difference between CoP Ultima and Proto-Ultima. Two entirely different beings, using the same form of hate 15 levels later just doesnt work.

[Severance]

Your leader sounds like a retard.

[layoneil]

There was no comparison of the two

Would work fine, only major concern is running out of MP. We use RDM/NIN to tank Ultima np, killed it today with 12 in 40 mins.

Sounds like you should be mad at the NIN/WAR for forgetting his soap, not the NIN/RDM for taking a different approach to building his hate. I've seen Sleep tanking by a RDM/NIN and it worked really

both of those seem to be inferring, if RDM/NIN works, NIN/RDM should not be a huge drop off (and it probably isn't if you play it the exact same way). but if you have any general experience with NIN/RDMs or NIN/BLMs, you can probably guess they are going for a DD Ninjutsu build, which is not how you play RDM/NIN.

There's also a huge difference between CoP Ultima and Proto-Ultima. Two entirely different beings, using the same form of hate 15 levels later just doesnt work.

i assumed people would be able to figure it out from what i said, but thanks for spelling it out for them i guess.

[Drinhkinn]

The laughable part is its Ultima. Of all endgame mobs, you dont want to be using already low skill/weak elemental spells on him. I've tried a nuking setup of HQ staves, int/capped Ninjutsu skill (minus cape) and its horrible on endgame mobs still. Its just not a viable means of doing damage when compared to the already obvious ways a NIN can tank and do damage already...not to mention its a horrible way to spam a mob with TP.

From having done some pretty extensive ninjutsu testings on alot of stuff, only 2 "endgame" Nms suitable for ninjutsu, in my opinion, is Faust and Jailer of Fortitude. Hell, on JoF i can do 220-ish Sans, and I dont even have astute cape or koga feets, nor Hq staves. >.> (cap ninjutsu merits though)

NIN/RDM /BLM is good on those 2 NMs (If theres any other suggestions, please say, love trying new stuff. So far everything seemed to fail), and normal mobs. That's it. It's just for fun, not to be taken seriously.

[Zetah]

Honestly...if thats the shellholder you're following instructions from, you could make a 10-12 man group and easily have 18 by the time you have enough for 2-3 omega / ultima runs in a row each.

I run a sea / limbus / various other endgame activities shell, I'm not the greatest leader, I don't ALWAYS have the answers, and I do enjoy taking different approaches to things. That being said, thats why I have 100% sane sackholders who I listen to.

Having 1 person, especially an idiot lead a shell is always a bad idea. Tomorrow our only MNK/DRK is on vacation for omega, leaving the spot for "last 25% zerger" open, I'm going NIN/DRK in full haste gear and putting my trust in my WHMs that theyll keep me alive while I destroy that 25%.

Our main tank will be NIN/BRD, and he's ridiculously awesome at it.

New ideas can be good, that's why we HAVE the possibility of NIN/DRK + NIN/BRD + whatever, but seriously, the responsibility is on a leader to listen to suggestions and be the acting voice of his LS. If your leaders an asshat, break off, make something better, and have the people you pass by be pissed at you while you farm up more homam and nashira than they'll ever see.

Hey there! How does NIN/BRD work on Proto-Omega? I've only used it on Fafnir and BLMs never pulled hate, but I just don't see how it works with Proto-Omega. It does a lot of really annoying aoes so having the tank pt all huddled together is dangerous...a NIN in my LS likes sitting in the melee party but I don't think having a main tank in a different party is very efficient (this also only lets whoever the /WHM is in the melee party to count on for erase, and WHMs can't hit him with curagas or regens). This guy insists on NIN/BRD for stuff like gods too but I don't think it's any better than 2 NIN/DRK because at least the 2 nins will be in the tank party.

[BerenTebogo]

pt for NIN/BRD is gonna be BRD BRD NIN/BRD NIN/DRK WAR WAR most likely.

will ensure mazurka hits everyone + sufficiently buff WARs + NIN/DRK to destroy him quickly.

Will have PLD in BLM pt for gun pods and everything else will be average setup.

Our first run using NIN/BRD on Omega though, I'll post about how it goes after our run tonight.

[layoneil]

i did BRD/NIN in the tank PT once, songs just hit 4 people the other 2 tanks and the 2nd BRD, the RDM and WHM stays out of range.

how's NIN/DRK going to work in that PT with no Refresh?

[Khalil]

This thread made me laugh more than this;

Botting doesn't give me an advantage.

[Michaera]

NIN/RDM /BLM is good on those 2 NMs (If theres any other suggestions, please say, love trying new stuff. So far everything seemed to fail), and normal mobs. That's it. It's just for fun, not to be taken seriously.

Maybe popped NMs like Rostrum Pumps, BQ, Hakutaku....? Though one probably has a melee they could bring and do just as well or better to any of those. Maybe Golden-Tongued Culberry. Doesn't work so well on gods, and most other NMs you really don't want to try giving TP to. I used it against Aspid and when I wasn't resisted (completely) the damage was alright, but most of the time it's single digits. :/ With almost capped merits and no boots.