NIN/RDM. On Ultima.

[BerenTebogo]

i did BRD/NIN in the tank PT once, songs just hit 4 people the other 2 tanks and the 2nd BRD, the RDM and WHM stays out of range.

how's NIN/DRK going to work in that PT with no Refresh?

It would seem you have not experienced the joy and love of the bard song glitch.

If I have less than 20 songs on, it'll be a surprise.

[Mimic]

You could actually go BRD BRD/NIN RDM WAR WAR NIN/DRK if you wanted.

Since its dungeon, Mazurka doesn't go on anyway, so you could sing Minuet with other bard and lets say March on the tank bard. Then RDM cast haste + refresh.

[Moggy]

for those who dunno, brd/nin with a harp out ranges most AoE, no other job /brd could do it, cos singing distance is tiny lol

[Seditedi]

and I'm next in line for Nashira Legs. >_<

Why does it matter if you are next in line if your leader is too big of a moron to win the fight?

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

[size=9]and I'm next in line for Nashira Legs. >_<

Why does it matter if you are next in line if your leader is too big of a moron to win the fight?

We've won before. It usually involves half or more of a rr pin/gorget but we win occasionally. NIN/RDM is a new low though, trying it out on omega, fine, omega can be won by a friggin pickup party, but on ULTIMA...

[Seditedi]

Hmmmm boot the leader, hes a moron.. lol. Ultima's can go rough, and half a RR pin isn't actually that bad.. hehe. Depending on how many times you get hit with the dispel/terror move, you can waste alot of RR charges if you happen to be in range of the AoE terror.

[Lockecole]

There was no comparison of the two

Would work fine, only major concern is running out of MP. We use RDM/NIN to tank Ultima np, killed it today with 12 in 40 mins.

Sounds like you should be mad at the NIN/WAR for forgetting his soap, not the NIN/RDM for taking a different approach to building his hate. I've seen Sleep tanking by a RDM/NIN and it worked really

both of those seem to be inferring, if RDM/NIN works, NIN/RDM should not be a huge drop off (and it probably isn't if you play it the exact same way). but if you have any general experience with NIN/RDMs or NIN/BLMs, you can probably guess they are going for a DD Ninjutsu build, which is not how you play RDM/NIN.

Sorry there shouldnt have been a comparison of the two. Apparently Magus even with his LSes extensive kill list and all his praises regarding them, has no concept of what type of tank will work when, and how hate is obtained and kept. To say NIN/RDM is valid and you're just "hatin'" on someone trying something new is laughable at best. Lemme guess, you're the guy who goes SMN/BLM and wonders why he's ridiculed?

There's also a huge difference between CoP Ultima and Proto-Ultima. Two entirely different beings, using the same form of hate 15 levels later just doesnt work.

i assumed people would be able to figure it out from what i said, but thanks for spelling it out for them i guess.

I've been here long enough to know people here need things spelled out for them. Just doing the dirty work for ya.

[Chael]

for those who dunno, brd/nin with a harp out ranges most AoE, no other job /brd could do it, cos singing distance is tiny lol

For raptor mazurka yes, but chocobo's range isn't augmented a whole lot by using a harp (around 12.0 I believe).

[Sui]

Those of you who're discussing NIN/RDM or BRD/NIN or other unorthodox but workable setups are missing the point. We're not discussing some pimped out super-NIN who will do anything in his power to make it work, but just someone who heard it could work and decided to do it without doing the other preparations.

I know this because my former Limbus group leader was almost exactly the same, except he was a RDM main. He was particularly enamored of asking us if we'd let him tank the next run as RDM/WAR and telling us that losses were not due to strategy or a failure to learn about what we were doing, but how we didn't believe in ourselves enough or something.

I left that group when he tried to go rdm/war to a KRT merit party with me, was annoyed when I told him to go /whm, went /blm, invited a second rdm/blm, insisted that I give him March instead of Ballad, and then yelled at me for not curing enough when he ran out of mp a few minutes after Convert. Your leader may not be the same caliber as mine, Max, but definitely consider finding some other group.

[Maguspk]

There was no comparison of the two

Would work fine, only major concern is running out of MP. We use RDM/NIN to tank Ultima np, killed it today with 12 in 40 mins.

Sounds like you should be mad at the NIN/WAR for forgetting his soap, not the NIN/RDM for taking a different approach to building his hate. I've seen Sleep tanking by a RDM/NIN and it worked really

both of those seem to be inferring, if RDM/NIN works, NIN/RDM should not be a huge drop off (and it probably isn't if you play it the exact same way). but if you have any general experience with NIN/RDMs or NIN/BLMs, you can probably guess they are going for a DD Ninjutsu build, which is not how you play RDM/NIN.

Sorry there shouldnt have been a comparison of the two. Apparently Magus even with his LSes extensive kill list and all his praises regarding them, has no concept of what type of tank will work when, and how hate is obtained and kept. To say NIN/RDM is valid and you're just "hatin'" on someone trying something new is laughable at best. Lemme guess, you're the guy who goes SMN/BLM and wonders why he's ridiculed?

There's also a huge difference between CoP Ultima and Proto-Ultima. Two entirely different beings, using the same form of hate 15 levels later just doesnt work.

i assumed people would be able to figure it out from what i said, but thanks for spelling it out for them i guess.

I've been here long enough to know people here need things spelled out for them. Just doing the dirty work for ya.

Uhm no, I understand full and well NIN/RDM isn't as good as NIN/WAR, but ot blame the entire loss on him is stupid. I'm sure he was capable of holding some form of hate but definetely not as much as a NIN/WAR. The fact of the matter is, they are pinning the entire loss on that one guy when it really should be the NIN/WAR who didn't contribute at all who should be bitched at. Btw, I understand concepts in this game better than you think I do, and I don't appreciate you putting words into my mouth, especially when I never did anything to you, get the fuck out bud.

[cassiraa]

Uhm no, I understand full and well NIN/RDM isn't as good as NIN/WAR, but ot blame the entire loss on him is stupid. I'm sure he was capable of holding some form of hate but definetely not as much as a NIN/WAR. The fact of the matter is, they are pinning the entire loss on that one guy when it really should be the NIN/WAR who didn't contribute at all who should be bitched at.

If it were just a NIN/RDM that was entering etc. I would then blame the linkshell leader for making sure we had proper jobs, making sure that we had a good setup, and making sure that everybody was ready.

My anger stems from the fact that the NIN/RDM in question IS the leader, And therefore is to blame for the logistics of the event. NIN/RDM is a fun/funny toy for SE, maybe West.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

2 quotes:
"I doing so much damage, why am I not pulling hate?"
"No, see problem is that people saw we only had NIN/RDM tank and didnt even try."

[Lordwafik]

Can't complain about him being your leader really, you choose this.

[Rocl]

I'm heartily amused.
AND DONT WORRY MAXX IVE BEEN IN THE SAME SITUATION

"My LS sucks but there's nowhere else to go; ; ; ; "

and then it's like

Brilliant idea! "Let's make our own LS(*'-')/" and then people are like "YEAH SURE wait nvm" and then you're all ">_>". Ah, yes those days.

Don't be a pussy. Tell him he sucks, punch him in the face, and leave the LS taking as many people as humanly possible. DESTROY THEM.

[chiz]

Its a tough situation, although I'm not sure I would've risked the fight without at least 2 tried and tested tanks. It sounds like you only had 1 (the NIN/WAR that forgot soap). We've had situations where someone forgetting soap can jeopardize the success of a run (splitting runs and clearing zones with 5-7), but never on a boss fight, there's simply too much time invested to fuck it up.

Sounds like the run was destined to fail though once your vanilla NIN/WAR couldn't enter. None of the other jobs except maybe the WAR/NIN would be able to grab hate and survive very long, but that's still a lot riding on 1 NIN/WAR's shoulders regardless.

Back to the NIN/RDM thing, I'm 100% positive it'd work just fine on Ultima but probably not so well in other fights. They made it clear though that their NIN/RDM wasn't using all of its hate-grabbing spells and was instead focusing on just dealing damage. The reason why he wasn't tanking effectively is probably because his damage alone couldn't keep pace with the healing needed to keep him alive, let alone holding hate off the damage from the other jobs.

Still, I don't see how you could enter this fight with basically no back-up tank or reliable form of hate transfer. RNG/WHMs for damage, 1 WAR/NIN, I'm assuming a few BLMs and only Max on DRK/THF? There's basically 3 things that make this fight incredibly easy:

1) Ample +MP (BRD and RDM for every main healer)
2) A tank that can survive CB
3) 2 jobs that can plant heavy hate with SATA+WS (SAM is best, THF and DRK are also good).

Fight goes like this for us:

SATA+WS on tanks any time the melee have TP. Don't bother with SC, just go when your timers are up and you've got 100TP. Do this from 100% to 20% and there should be ZERO deaths up until this point (except maybe a stray Taru BRD here and there). Anytime Equalizer or Armor Buster goes off, melee without blink run out of range til they're healed, then re-engage. Have 1 WHM or RDM stand further back, when AoE Terrorga goes off, have them /assist and heal the tank that has hate.

Once it starts using CB, you may take a few deaths from heavy melee DD or main healers, but once they clear hate once, they shouldn't get hate again for the entire fight as long as 1 of your tanks survives. At this point, we just run in to build TP or Meditate/Sleep pot off to the side. Clear on CB, run in after and plant hate on the tank. 1 WHM runs in right after CB to Cure V the tank while the rest med at a safe distance. As long as the mages have Stoneskin up, they should survive any draw-in hate but may die here and there to Armor Buster (same for Melees w/out Blink).

But ya, in a situation where no one is taking or dealing much direct damage (if they are, they're dead anyways probably), pretty much any job can hold hate as long as they're not taking tons of damage. NIN/RDM wouldn't have any problem getting this done with all the enmity equipment available to NIN and black magic debuffs from /RDM. NIN should be able to survive CB as well, but I'm not 100% sure of it, may need to try it next round and see how it goes.

[BerenTebogo]

I'm heartily amused.
AND DONT WORRY MAXX IVE BEEN IN THE SAME SITUATION

"My LS sucks but there's nowhere else to go; ; ; ; "

and then it's like

Brilliant idea! "Let's make our own LS(*'-')/" and then people are like "YEAH SURE wait nvm" and then you're all ">_>". Ah, yes those days.

Don't be a pussy. Tell him he sucks, punch him in the face, and leave the LS taking as many people as humanly possible. DESTROY THEM.

Did that and it worked out very well for us XDD

btw for the people who were interested, NIN/BRD + NIN/DRK tank omega run entering in 5 minutes, I'll update after fight.

****

ok about 15 minute fight, was a bit messy at times but NIN/BRD held hate well except he did die twice. I as NIN/DRK didnt die once, barely took any dmg but I wasn't in enmity gear so my hate was off and on, but was very nice have 23 second stuns.

PLD just got pods.

Overall was a good run, nothing fantastic but I think we'll stick to it.

Smokey chip
legs
feet

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Can't complain about him being your leader really, you choose this.

Ehhhhhh kinda... I chose to remain, but... eh...
See, I joined the LS early on. In the beginning we had a couple nubs but in general it was good. Then the leader decided to keep things more open so that we can do 2 runs a night. Unfortunately, when you start inviting people based on availability instead of ability you have major issues. And thats how this started. See, before, when it was smaller though this leader was the leader really we were just a tight knit group. It was in general friendly and we didnt have people pulling stupid shit. Of course then shit like this happens...

[TsingTao]

LOL @ this thread. I tried to think of the NIN in question but it's not coming to me. I think my brain refuses out of embarassment to admit I might actually know them in more than a passing fashion.

Remind me to send a /tell later Max so I can chuckle at who the mystery Ninja actually turns out to be.

[Septimus]

Honestly, you probably would not have done any better if that guy went in on NIN/WAR... May I suggest a good, old-fashioned linkshell mutiny?

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Honestly, you probably would not have done any better if that guy went in on NIN/WAR... May I suggest a good, old-fashioned linkshell mutiny?

Yeah it would have done better... hate would have been kept long enough for the SAM/THF and DRK/THF (me) to toss some SATAs down. Its not like the RNG/WHMs (double light + holy bolt = win amirite?) were doing a ton of damage...

And as I said. Mutiny was tried. The co-leader went pussy.