11/06 - SE's anti-RMT 'Special Task Force'

[Aodh]

I bet if, included in their task force, there was a group of GMs whose sole job was to hop from NM to NM and remain visible to players 24/7, it would help things greatly.

They could be sleeping on the job, and still could accomplish something. If you saw a GM standing off to the side during a Fafnir window, or at ulli spawn time, I think many people would be much more cautious about fleetooling or botting.

We were killing Kirin when an alliance of RMT came in during our first spawn and started following around our second pop. A few of our members called a GM who appeared when we were fighting the summoned Genbu, did a /panic emote then /em [GM] jumps into the turtle's shell. Told our members that if the gilsellers thought the GMs were still there they probably wouldn't try anything.

[Popeh]

They need to come down off their GM poddle woddle and get in with the game. Hell, I'd love that job!

Deterrent is one thing, discreet interaction is the winner.

[Correction]

Think about the number of people that have "occasionally bought a little Gil", it's probably a lot, SE can't afford to loose that many accounts so they refine it to "people that buy a lot" this way it still looks like they are doing a good job, but they don't have to ban as many people.

You don't have to punish everyone, but this wording seems like they're willing to tolerate a little buying and selling.

I would guess that the smaller transactions are an order of magnitude more difficult to track down and investigate. Small transactions can be for anything. I can say I was getting paid for mailing him some goods a month ago and they'll spend days tracking down all those transactions.

Or, they could make more effective use of their time just following the BIG buyers and who's supplying them (the long-term farming crews).

But hey, whatever makes byakko legitimately poppable again eh?

And save up on them southern pearls, they're about to triple in price.

[Andomrequhency]

Finally sounds like they are going after the actual websites that sell gil as well not just the in game RMT characters. Law suit against IGE soon maybe? You can keep banning the in game mules/chars but as long as the company still exists then they willl create new mules/characters. If you get rid of the companies then they wont have any reason to create new characters which will solve most of the problem.

Lawsuits are more expensive than buying the minimum amount of gil and just banning the network of players feeding gil into the character it was bought from.

Plus, they might argue they're not selling gil, but selling the time it takes to farm (of which the end result is gil). Or some shit like that. But mostly that lawsuits are expensive.

Also, a lot of those sites operate through paypal. Once they go through the final dances of purchasing it, they can report it to paypal, and it'll get closed.

[Khamsin]

Plus, they might argue they're not selling gil, but selling the time it takes to farm (of which the end result is gil). Or some shit like that. But mostly that lawsuits are expensive.

Well, in that case, just tack onto the TOS that it's a violation to not only sell gil, but sell the time it takes to farm the gil, too.

Then tack onto the lawsuit compensation equal to the cost of the lawsuit, so in the end, IGE pays for SE's suit against them.

Unless there is a reason they can't do that, I don't see why they wouldn't.

[Aodh]

Plus, they might argue they're not selling gil, but selling the time it takes to farm (of which the end result is gil). Or some shit like that. But mostly that lawsuits are expensive.

I don't think any judge would allow the "I'm not selling crack, I'm selling the time it took to manufacture crack" excuse. Where they can sue for is violation of privacy and breach of contract on the Terms of Service.

[Francisco II]

Well, in that case, just tack onto the TOS that it's a violation to not only sell gil, but sell the time it takes to farm the gil, too.

Then tack onto the lawsuit compensation equal to the cost of the lawsuit, so in the end, IGE pays for SE's suit against them.

Unless there is a reason they can't do that, I don't see why they wouldn't.

Ex post facto.

[Khamsin]

Well, in that case, just tack onto the TOS that it's a violation to not only sell gil, but sell the time it takes to farm the gil, too.

Then tack onto the lawsuit compensation equal to the cost of the lawsuit, so in the end, IGE pays for SE's suit against them.

Unless there is a reason they can't do that, I don't see why they wouldn't.

Ex post facto.

Don't sue for what they did prior to the change, just sue if they continue to sell gil after the change.

[Andomrequhency]

Plus, they might argue they're not selling gil, but selling the time it takes to farm (of which the end result is gil). Or some shit like that. But mostly that lawsuits are expensive.

I don't think any judge would allow the "I'm not selling crack, I'm selling the time it took to manufacture crack" excuse. Where they can sue for is violation of privacy and breach of contract on the Terms of Service.

Virtual items != controlled goods.

It's all about who has the better laywers, and there's no precident about this.. Especially with games like second life, etc, that explicitly encourage this. Besides, where do you sue them? IGE is based out of hong kong, which means hiring a law firm there.. Lawsuits are something that could get very very expensive, very quickly.

As for putting it into the tos, if you try to make someone agree to something that a judge says is illegal, you nullify that portion of the contract.

It's much easier to just purchase tiny amounts of gil to mine your own databases for information and wait for them to try to sue you in japan, or california.. Where your inhouse lawyers can deal with it.

[aurik]

Why would you sue IGE? Just ban their toons, let IGE sue YOU, and refuse to show up to court unless it's in the district where the agreement states disputes will be settled. Then have a lawyer stand up and say that SE reserves the right to refuse service to anyone.

As long as the ban wasn't done on a discriminatory basis (hay ur chinese zomg!) IGE really doesn't have a chance in the USA. Not sure about Japanese law.

[Kurohyou]

I'm pretty sure gil counts as intellectual property. Namely SE's.

[Francisco II]

SE really can't put that in the ToS anyway... and the RMT sites could really get clever if they wanted to.

"For $50 we will sell you an email with instructions on how to make 4,000,000 gil."

Email: A friend is looking to purchase an earth crystal, and is willing to pay 4,000,000 gil should he happen to find one on bazaar at the Qufim/Jeuno zoneline in the next 30 minutes.

[Septimus]

I've been meaning to get around to making a "Law & Order: Gil Seller Unit" logo.

I think the banning people for buying large amounts of gil thing is partially a deterrent. Once a few well known people vanish from the game, people are going to be a lot more hesitant to do business with the various RMT web sites.

I really hope that they focus on botting NMs and HNMs. Make a fake Fafnir that pops 60 feet up in the air and ban anyone who "mazurkas" and "crimson cuisses" their way up to claim it. Have GMs camp Serket, Statue's Aery, the whole of SSG, Oztroja, and every other RMT hot spot that we can all name- you do not have to even do it everyday on every server to have a huge impact. Make more Rare/EX versions of items like O-Kote and Speed Belt moving the regular versions into BCNM/ISNM/ENM fights.

Maybe I am a little naive about this, but I think Square may be in the right track with this.

[NynJa]

I bet if, included in their task force, there was a group of GMs whose sole job was to hop from NM to NM and remain visible to players 24/7, it would help things greatly.

They could be sleeping on the job, and still could accomplish something. If you saw a GM standing off to the side during a Fafnir window, or at ulli spawn time, I think many people would be much more cautious about fleetooling or botting.

We were killing Kirin when an alliance of RMT came in during our first spawn and started following around our second pop. A few of our members called a GM who appeared when we were fighting the summoned Genbu, did a /panic emote then /em [GM] jumps into the turtle's shell. Told our members that if the gilsellers thought the GMs were still there they probably wouldn't try anything.

he fucking refered to them as gilsellers, yet did nothing despite the fact that selling gil is against the ToS ?

[Enkidu]

Maybe I am a little naive about this, but I think Square may be in the right track with this.

I agree and maybe people should send in a "gilseller hotspot" list to SE from that playonline form (https://secure.playonline.com/supportus/index.html). Sure they may not even read it or even care, but hey they might!

We just need to voice our concern over that of the Allakazam community... Let them know that sky is a serious problem and that other endgame areas are slowly being infested with sellers. Otherwise they're going to ban or "investigate" some of the sellers who camp little NM's and piss off zam users and think they're doing good. We all assume they know this already, but this is SE... Unless you want them starting with low tier NM's and then (a year later) working on how to fix Ulli's Aery you might want to just send in a suggestion.

[Aodh]

he fucking refered to them as gilsellers, yet did nothing despite the fact that selling gil is against the ToS ?

I didn't talk and haven't seen the screen shots yet, we called them gilsellers, the GM did the song and dance to try to keep them from trying anything. I don't know how the GMs referred to them, but considering they appeared at all I imagine they suspected something as well or had other issues with them.

[shinobi_tabi]

Make more Rare/EX versions of items like O-Kote and Speed Belt moving the regular versions into BCNM/ISNM/ENM fights.

this is what i wish they would do with all the items rmt ever try to cash in on. It worked really well at detering monopolization at emp pin , argus , snipers and leaping boots. Almsot all of they items they can change to rare/ex or ex can be put into a bcnm.
Kraken bcnm = kclub
tonberry= hocho, thiefs knife
is there a crab bcnm? ;3

[Millael]

Soon, RMT sites are going to start taking anti-counter-RMT action.


Please fill out this questionaire, and we'll get your gil to you as quickly as possible!

Are you an SE employee?

Are you sure?

No, really, are you a GM?

Will Mazurka + W. Legs make you move super fast through the Boyahda Tree?

Are you going to ban our mules when we send you the gil?

Are you SURE you're not a GM?

Is Absolute Virtue currently functioning as expected?

[BRP]

Seems like all good news to me. Nice name too.

[Hyjynx]

I've been meaning to get around to making a "Law & Order: Gil Seller Unit" logo.

I think the banning people for buying large amounts of gil thing is partially a deterrent. Once a few well known people vanish from the game, people are going to be a lot more hesitant to do business with the various RMT web sites.

I really hope that they focus on botting NMs and HNMs. Make a fake Fafnir that pops 60 feet up in the air and ban anyone who "mazurkas" and "crimson cuisses" their way up to claim it. Have GMs camp Serket, Statue's Aery, the whole of SSG, Oztroja, and every other RMT hot spot that we can all name- you do not have to even do it everyday on every server to have a huge impact. Make more Rare/EX versions of items like O-Kote and Speed Belt moving the regular versions into BCNM/ISNM/ENM fights.

Maybe I am a little naive about this, but I think Square may be in the right track with this.

I don't think you are Sept and I agree with you.
I know every time one of these topics are made, there is an endless string of "LIEZ ALL LIEZ" and "THEY SAY STUFF BUT NOTHING HAPPENZ" but on my server (Seraph) there's been a HUGE difference over the year and more-so in the last 4-5 months with seriously notorious gil seller accounts being banned.

I dont think we have any gil seller accounts on Seraph that have Sea atm (if we do its a very small number) compaired to the tons last year that made it through to sea. Uli's aery is pretty much free of gil sellers at this point for the most part and the only REAL competition is actual linkshells which is pretty cool (though waiting 8-12 hours for an Uli pop is still gay beyond reason).

I know without a doubt that what ever S-E is doing is making an impact and I welcome it.