Drk weapon question

[Delekii]

Grab a friendly bst to despawn and respawn crabs if you want more regular EMs - they are also good at holding 2 mobs claimed at once for atleast a little while.

[XxSlusherxx]

However, the line is supposed to be a 1.0x pDIF, which simply doesn't work with your data. It's like the line was at 1.1x pDIF...the additional 0.1 makes me think that possibly the gorget is acting on it, since the gorget also is known to add 0.1 to fTP.

I was under the impression that the leading theory on WS gorgets was that it did bump the modifier up by 0.1, wo mabye that would explain the problum?

[NynJa]

well a certain someone in this thread claims that the gorgets modify the WS forumula by adding a 1.0 multipler.

Yes folks, Chiz claims that WS gorgets change the formula from a*b*c to a*b*c*1, and actually defended himself stating that the results are different. When confronted on his lack of grade 3 math skills, he went on a tirade, much like the one here, trying to defend himself.

[Sho]

well a certain someone in this thread claims that the gorgets modify the WS forumula by adding a 1.0 multipler.

Yes folks, Chiz claims that WS gorgets change the formula from a*b*c to a*b*c*1, and actually defended himself stating that the results are different. When confronted on his lack of grade 3 math skills, he went on a tirade, much like the one here, trying to defend himself.

This is funny. XD

I have a small question tho-- Kenshin used a Snow Gorget to test Gekko... would using a Aqua Gorget instead push the dmg up at all? (I'm inbetween getting Aqua and Snow atm lol)

[NynJa]

I think they would both work...since gekko is used for distortion, but also used in reverberation (it sits in that category that closes fragmentation, but is based on reverberation).

[chiz]

well a certain someone in this thread claims that the gorgets modify the WS forumula by adding a 1.0 multipler.

Yes folks, Chiz claims that WS gorgets change the formula from a*b*c to a*b*c*1, and actually defended himself stating that the results are different. When confronted on his lack of grade 3 math skills, he went on a tirade, much like the one here, trying to defend himself.

Way to prove yourself to be a retarded troll, once again. You didn't understand the discussion in that thread then, and obviously you still don't.

My argument was that the 0.1 to fTP from gorgets also applied to off-hand hits as well as multi-hit WS. You and Retard-Dan argued that it didn't and started arguing about the syntax and semantics of the WS formula itself.

My argument is simple, is it more likely that if the gorgets do add 0.1 to fTP for hits after the 1st strike, would the WS formula look like:

WSD = pDIF x ((WD + fSTR + WSC) + .1 x (WD + fSTR + WSC))

or

WSD = pDIF x 1.1 (WD + fSTR + WSC)

both formula are mathematically the same, which was the crux of Dan's argument, however only one presentation remains consistent with the published WS formula.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

Oh god lmao. What are you even arguing?

[NynJa]

its ok Chiz, keep telling yourself that multplying something by 1 will change the result. ^____________________^

[chiz]

Oh god lmao. What are you even arguing?

Basically Dan, and then Nynja (though its obvious he still doesn't understand wtf was going on), failed to acknowledge off-hand hits defaulted to a 1.0 fTP multiplier, something I wasn't sure of until 5-6 months ago when someone pointed out VZX's website on these forums. The reason its significant is because the published WS formula only give fTP multipliers for the 1st hit, or so I thought.

The original FFXIforums translation of St. Goblii's WS testing is incomplete, at least on the first few pages. I don't know if they go into more detail later, but VZX is a much more thorough translation and gets into more advanced stuff like pDIF tiers and level correction ratios. Anyways, Dan kept saying there was no proof that fTP was 1.0, saying that off-hand hits didn't have an fTP multiplier at all. I tried explaining to him otherwise that even though the multiplier worked out to 1.0, it wasn't simply truncated from the formula.

I dug a little deeper since he kept trying to discredit VZX's translation and confirmation that fTP for extra hits was in fact 1.0, and simply Babelfished a few comments from St. Goblii's original JP text which said extra-hits were 1.0 fTP for stuff like Penta-Thrust and Guillotine. He then flapped on saying it was inconclusive and that's why it was only listed for a few of the WS. Its since been proven and tested though that the 1.0 fTP multiplier is consistent for all multi-hit WS and off-hand hits.

And no, as far as I know, there's still no "conclusive" testing indicating fTP is 1.1 with the apprpriate gorget for extra hits except for logic and anecdotal evidence.

[chiz]

its ok Chiz, keep telling yourself that multplying something by 1 will change the result. ^____________________^

Just as you can keep telling yourself that multiplying something by anything except for 1 won't change the result. ^^

[NynJa]

max, just go read the afforementionned thread and see for yourself lol.

its pretty funny actually.

[aurik]

ok chiz can you go make a new thread for it? we're actually getting stuff done in this one, so try not to derail it.

[chiz]

ok chiz can you go make a new thread for it? we're actually getting stuff done in this one, so try not to derail it.

Who's derailing? The only reason there's even a discussion is because my gut feeling > than your L7 SAM. Might want to check who tried to derail thanks.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

ok chiz can you go make a new thread for it? we're actually getting stuff done in this one, so try not to derail it.

Who's derailing? The only reason there's even a discussion is because my gut feeling > than your L7 SAM. Might want to check who tried to derail thanks.

Guess what happens when you multiply his SAM lvl of 7 by 1.

[NynJa]

it becomes 75 obviously.

[RKenshin]

Too funny... lol

I have a small question tho-- Kenshin used a Snow Gorget to test Gekko... would using a Aqua Gorget instead push the dmg up at all? (I'm inbetween getting Aqua and Snow atm lol)

Well, I tested this as well not too long ago as well... I'm actually thinking twice about posting it as I'm sure Chiz will love to make a his 100th bunny comment, but I suppose I will anyway.

The test was performed on bunnies, and while they should be able to accurately test any changes at all to the multiplier (which is why I use bunnies for any gorget tests) it wouldn't be undeniable proof anymore since there are some possible unknown factors in some WS equations that the gorget could effect that are capped on bunnies (I suppose? or whatever).

But yeah, anyway... Different gorgets that both effect Steel Cyclone both gave the same exact results over multiple uses. These were the numbers that came up most frequently for all of them:
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3135 ... eze6lo.jpg
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9900 ... now3uv.jpg

Safe to assume they both at least give the same multiplier.

[Sho]

Ahh cool cool, that makes it easy. :D

[mikazuki]

it would be best to not use the gorgets for your yuki/gekko/kasha tests since it's possible they introduce a non-static variable - of course it's a bit late to say that since you now have a data set that includes them^^; obviously the same goes for hagun but you aren't using that anyway.


i was thinking a little and i figured SE keep the equations secret because it's propriatory data that they place a high value on - since it's a part of the server code that is not easy to duplicate without first-hand knowledge. not that this would stop anyone from putting ffxi skin on a different game.

[XxSlusherxx]

it would be best to not use the gorgets for your yuki/gekko/kasha tests since it's possible they introduce a non-static variable - of course it's a bit late to say that since you now have a data set that includes them^^; obviously the same goes for hagun but you aren't using that anyway.

Actually I did the test without using gorgets and got virtually the same results, I used Hagun, but all ws from all tests were done at 300tp so it should not make any diffrence.