Stage 5 Shield - Random Currency or Sandy?

[Rocl]

I finally figured out why Wafik upgraded Mandau after watching a bit of Crocodile Dundee this morning.

Even Australian needs a good knife.

[Lockecole]

I support the shield for a HNMLS more than the horn.

The only song that the horn really effects is Ballad2, every other song already has +2 instruments (now some even +3 making the horn outdated on those songs). So essentially you're just buying a ballad horn which I'm sure every mage gets moist when he hears that he's only going to be singing ballad from now on.

If that's what you want, /shrug, go for it, but if I was leading a HNMLS I'd go shield first. My dynamis LS might be upgrading a horn soon, depending on what happens in the next few weeks, for my LS I can totally agree with horn since we're extremely MP dependent.

My Q to BG, pld/nin tank frequently? Are you running out of MP so much? Which relic do you see in which scenario giving you a huge benefit over the other? I can see Gjallarhorn being more useful in a smaller LS or LS that does things with small numbers (like 6 manning jailers or gods), than a larger LS that usually has all the jobs there and ready.

If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the horn affect potency of your songs, not the duration? I'm pretty sure it's been found that ballad is +7mp a tick instead of +2 to duration.

Umm where did he say it didnt? He said basically that its only better for a BRD when it comes to Ballad, and that sometimes thats not enough to warrent the upgrade, especially when MP isn't really an issue for tanks anymore.

[aurik]

I support the shield for a HNMLS more than the horn.

The only song that the horn really effects is Ballad2, every other song already has +2 instruments (now some even +3 making the horn outdated on those songs). So essentially you're just buying a ballad horn which I'm sure every mage gets moist when he hears that he's only going to be singing ballad from now on.

If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the horn affect potency of your songs, not the duration? I'm pretty sure it's been found that ballad is +7mp a tick instead of +2 to duration.

You're not mistaken, but you are bad at reading comprehension. LW is saying every song you sing there is already an appropriate +2 instrument for it EXCEPT for ballad.

Which isn't quite true...string is weaker than wind instrument for debuffs, particularly important being lullaby.

[Lordwafik]

Which isn't quite true...string is weaker than wind instrument for debuffs, particularly important being lullaby.

Hmmm that point slipped my mind, however looking through somepage's instrument list, there's hardly any offensive +2 harps, most of them are flutes.

Military Harp - Finale +2
Nursemaid's Harp - Lullaby +2
Sorrowful Harp - Threnody +3
Cythara Anglica +1 - Virelai +2

My Q, does +3 harp > +2 horn? Or even out?
And out of all those, there's only 2 songs that'll really be affected by Gjallar, seeing how finale hardly resists(except stupid occasions) and lolvirelai.

[Xavier]

My Q to BG, pld/nin tank frequently? Are you running out of MP so much?

No.

[Lordwafik]

no to which

[Xavier]

To the MP.

I thought the first part was rhetoric.

[Lordwafik]

lol, well I guess then if you have no MP issues, have no trouble with adds for lullaby, no trouble with landing threnody, then the horn won't be as useful to you guys as Aegis.

[kyrue]

what if a Gjallarhorn bard gave ballad 2 + a march for PLD in tank PT? they'd be getting +4 MP from ballad 2, + 3 from refresh and could theoretically spend MP faster with the march lowering recast timers to generate more hate. I'm not a tank, I'm a bard actually, but would that scenario justify horn over shield? Just curious what others think of it.

[Xavier]

As a pld/nin, you're already getting double march in your tank party.

[phizit]

I disagree with march very much so. I always perfer 2x mp + refresh tanking PLD/NIN.

Timers are not really a problem I aways find myself running out of mp fighting most things normally. I mean some situations I have had almost full mp for majority of fights but it's rare. Something like Omega march is fine since is only like a 10 min fight. Though if it's Cerberus, Ultima, wyrms, and etc any fight over 5-10 mins long double mp is the way to go.

I am assuming BG is using PLD/nin as a nin style tank instead of provoke lower flash timer extremelly low and use that as you would provoke. The way I play PLD/NIn would be using 2x(typically standard) and having those PLD/NIN basically take care of tank pt / whole allaince.

Since taking damage = hate lost and PLD/NIN = hate gained by curing person that took damage. Instead of like a ninja style of tanking where they are battling themselfs to hold hate.

A horn would allow you to do like 12 man jorm / tiamat w/adds where shield i can't see making enough of a differnce to make or break a 12 man jorm but shield would help solo tanking jorm or tiamat which isn't bad either just incase only 1 tank or something is on @ time that it pops.

[Xavier]

I disagree with march very much so. I always perfer 2x mp + refresh tanking PLD/NIN.

Do people honestly not do PLD/NINx?, BRDx2, RDM?

Double march, double ballad, refresh, haste.

I'm not talking about doing march over ballad, we always have both. Gives you enough mp to basically cover cures on the party and usually alliance, a 22 second flash recast which is basically a shorter provoke w/ enmity gear.

I don't get if you just missed the point or not. We're already at the place where w/ ballad, refresh, auto-refresh, parade gorget that we have enough mp to cure the alliance. I'm just looking at ways to make the pld take even less damage, so that his own personal hate-loss doesn't fall as much, while still being able to cure others for hate. Seems like the best solution to me.

[phizit]

I just skiped to 3rd page of this topic. Yes 2x brd is used but most linkshells normally don't have 4 brds on for events do they? I was just assuming you were using 2x PLD/NIN BRD WHM RDM ???(Filler) typical setup(or 2x PLD/NIN BRD RDM BLM BLM for experince group).

Horn would really shine for these types of setups for tiamat / jorm:

PT1: PLD/NIN PLD/NIN BRD(Horn) BLM BLM BLM || PT2: 3x BLM BRD RDM SMN.

Could also try to reduce damage using 2x PLD/NIN BRD BRD WHM RDM party setup and 2x Ballad/1x march/1x carol(element)/Bar(Element)/mix of - magic damage taken gear(not sure if this would work)./+element restist gear. Refering to wyrms here when they fly I know air attack is magic based/elemental though never tested if -magic damage gear works to reduce damage.

On ground a smart tank will occasnally get hit but majority of time will only be getting hit with tp moves / magic -ga if not being stunned and blink rest of melee attacks. So generally you will just be conserving mp for when it starts to fly. So I don't see relic shield giving a huge advantige on ground tanking but in air / magic based tp moves / magic the -25% magic damage taken is godlike.

Though have to keep balance even with that imo if you don't take enough damage won't be able to hold hate nearlly as well. It's a fight between balacing MP and damage taken to hold hate well. I am sure a lot of people will say that is silly but think about it if a tank is only taking 50 damage per hit and the major way said tank holds hate is curing hate is most likely to bounce to heavy DD more then staying on tanks.

[Not Kuno]

Yes 2x brd is used but most linkshells normally don't have 4 brds on for events do they?

It looks like you guys have much bigger problems then deciding if you should get march or ballad then.

[phizit]

We normally have 2-3 brds on LS tops for any given event. I would assume that's pretty much standard for most linkshells. Though if you guys can get 4 brds on 100% of time go you guys. I would much rather have brd in each party then 2x brds in 1 under most solutions.

[Vygun]

never tested if -magic damage gear works to reduce damage.

Works well and for obvious reasons more consistent then a full resist set. I tend to mix and match resist and % gear around depending on what we are fighting.

I don't know why more people don't use this, but if your not taking enough damage for pld to get hate via cure then why not pop on berserker's torque? The dmg done via that is hate free and only adds more hate when you go to cure. Doesn't seem like too much of a hastle. Only used if your desperate for hate like after a roar or such. A pld in my shell thought of this out at our last ks99 turtle, because no one was taking any dmg at all.

[othellojr]

Yes 2x brd is used but most linkshells normally don't have 4 brds on for events do they?

It looks like you guys have much bigger problems then deciding if you should get march or ballad then.

My old ls..we had plenty of people that had brd leveled..but we did have problems, the kind that comes when people would rather come as Mnk(for example) instead of brd or whm to help out the ls more

[BerenTebogo]

We always have either 2 MP 2 March or 2 March 2x Carol (Don't use PLD/NIN as much as we use NIN/xxx)

[layoneil]

Though if you guys can get 4 brds on 100% of time go you guys. I would much rather have brd in each party then 2x brds in 1 under most solutions.

when those 2 BRDs are doing the most to keep you from losing i don't see why it'd be bad to put them in the same PT.

the melee and BLM PTs don't need more damage/mp at the expense of the tanks having less hate.

we don't really have an excess of BRDs but the priority is usually to have 2 in the tank PT before the others.

[Lyramion]

SE should have made rellic horn play another song! - how pimp would that be?