What you think of XII

[DeadLegend]

IMO, the reason 12's plot beats 7-10 is because there's no goddamn love story.

I think that's one weakness of xii. lol

[Neosutra]

IMO, the reason 12's plot beats 7-10 is because there's no goddamn love story.

I think that's one weakness of xii. lol

There was, it was just squashed in the opening movie

Not to mention the vaan >> panelo, and fran >> baltheir subtexts.

[Demosthenes]

fran >> baltheir subtexts.

Seems more like a Zoe/Mal relationship from Firefly/Serenity to me. Not love but something else.

[Lbelle]

I thought FF9 had a very mature story, and it is still my favorite game to this day. People always bitch and complain about the graphics of 9 saying they're kiddy, but when you actually play the game nothing could be farther from the truth. I love 9 though, so I always feel the need to stick up for it in these types of threads. And maybe that's why I loved 12's story so much, because it was similar to 9 in many ways.

As for the person complaining about Vaan and Penelo, while they weren't critical in the story of the Empire vs. Dalmasca in the military sense, they brought the story down to a personal level. You see Princess Ashe prancing around with Basch, her pimp bodyguard, and then there's Fran and Balthier who are just fucking rocking the shit out of everything they're in, and also helping with the war effort because of their airship expertise...then you have Penny and Vaan, who are children of a destroyed childhood and who have been forced to live in hard times because of this war. I thought they had a very important part to play in the story, and their backgrounds were just as interesting to me as say Basch's.

Also, in many scenes Penelo asked 'stupid' questions, like "omg what's nethecite?" (no that's not real, but bear with me) and THOSE were the types of questions dumb girls like myself would ask had I been in her situation. She always made things more clear for me.

But on most terms I agree with Seph.YuX, the game was very easy. Kaylia, yeah, most games have that one spell that are overpowered, but not at SUCH an EARLY point in the game. You can get curaja veeeeeeryyyy early on in the game, whereas in most FFs the retarded overpowered shit you really have to work for, or they're available closer to the end of the game as to not imbalance the whole thing. Atleast that's my experience. :D Hope I didn't make anyone mad with this tldr post.

[DeadLegend]

I've never understood people who say ff9 had crappy graphics. The characters aren't deformed like the blockhanded monsters in ff7, they have fingers in ff9(among other details), not to mention they live in one of the most detailed worlds ever portrayed on playstation and insane fmv.

One thing I found striking about the end of this game is that the new emperor of Archades has a closer relationship with any of the heroes than Ashe does. Basch is his knight and here's sweet little penelo his pen pal lol. Though they seem to set that up throughout with a (seemingly) close relationship between larsa and penelo. He has more interaction with her than any of the others, beginning with his happy kidnap of her for lunch at the drawing room, their co-ownership of the first man-made nethicite, and a quick scene where she comforts him (think it's after you find out gramis is dead). Fran and balth are off kicking mystery ass in a far away land and vaan's on the way to hang around with them. Meanwhile ashe just sits around her palace all day, and here's PENELO of all people reminding the crew to come see the coronation. The more I think about it the more I like penelo, and I think the little wings on her back are about as cute as the simulated bunny tails on viera clothes. Basch is still the owner though.

My problem with 9 was (or is) that I can't even tell you what that game's about. I could tell you the story of any other one I've played but I just didn't see a story in that one. It has a nice overall theme (a place to call home, people to call family, etc) but in terms of story I didn't see anything >.>

and I didn't vote on the poll because the choices are retarded

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

IMO, the reason 12's plot beats 7-10 is because there's no goddamn love story.

I think that's one weakness of xii. lol

The love isnt thrown in your face like other ones and there are a lot more types of love than old ones. I would say there is definate love between Vaan/Penelo (fraternal), Ashe/Basch (trust and companionship), Fran/Balthier (comraderie and deep friendship), and Penelo/Larsa (smooch smooch). Hell, even Larsa/Vayne are pretty close. The relationships arent cheesy like Squall/Rinoa or Tidus/Yuna.

[Lbelle]

MASSIVE DERAIL INC. FOR DEADLEGEND:

Nine's story was a little hard to follow but I'll give you a little bit of the basics:

Garnet had never been outside of Alexandria, and the Tantulus (Zidane's troupe) wanted to kidnap her for recognition. She ended up just going with them on her own free will, and her mom, Brahne, freaked the fuck out. She hired black mage soliders and Kuja was the general of the army. The troupe met people, did stuff, all the while Brahne was destroying homelands and pissing people off. She eventually used the power of a Summon, and Kuja wtfowned her by turning the summon against her a killed her.

Then, Kuja was like lolimpowerful and am going to use Brahne's summon to try to take over Alexandria...but failed. Alexander, a summon that Garnet and Eiko had used as a defense mechanism back in Alexandria, defeated Kuja's Bahamut and so now Kuja was like omgIwantthat! But Garland, this dude whose job it was to take over Gaia, the world, was like no bitch, and destroyed Alexander, and Kuja went away and Zidane's troupe followed him.

When they follow him the game gets interesting because it takes you back to a time before Gaia, and you learn alot about the characters, especially Garland, Zidane, Garnet, Kuja and the Ifia Tree. You also learn about Terra, and alternate world that wants to triumph over Gaia and blahblahblah.

So after they leave Terra and continue their search for Kuja, they almost die, and Kuja ends up saving them after they defeat a person named Necron who was trying to do the same thing Kuja wanted to do, i.e. destroy all life on Gaia. Bad guy turns good kinda thing. So then when they're like yay we're not dead, we can leave this place and everything will be dandy, Zidane is like wtf, I'm not leaving Kuja to die in this place. So he runs back and saves Kuja and everyone is so sad because they think Zidane will die going back to save him...

But wait!

Zidane is alive! He comes back and tells Garnet he loves her and she is so happy and it's the best ending EVER OMGGGGG.

There! Hope that helps.

[DeadLegend]

Zidane is like wtf, I'm not leaving Kuja to die in this place. So he runs back and saves Kuja and everyone is so sad because they think Zidane will die going back to save him...

But wait!

Zidane is alive! He comes back and tells Garnet he loves her and she is so happy and it's the best ending EVER OMGGGGG.

That's all I remembered, and I fully admit I get 100% gay and squishy when zid throws off his cloak during the play, looks up to little weeping garnet and says "No cloud nor squall shall bar our path"

; ;

and yeah Joee I found Larsa and Vayne's relationship to be really kinda indescribable. Their huge age difference and the fact that they're brothers vying for a throne makes a strong impact. Spoiler size: In the end when tensions are rising and you're going to fight the last boss and Larsa raises his sword it's very strong, and even after that Vayne tells gabranth to protect Larsa (pre second form fight). Finally in the ending Larsa says "My brother died proudly in battle" it seems after Gramis assassination that Vayne might just kill Larsa too but you know at the end he never ever would harm him.

[Lbelle]

Cried my fucking eyes out at that scene, not going to lie. I was soooooo happy, didn't see it coming, and omgkslgjsalkjakjaklfjsaklfjac I love 9 lol.

[DeadLegend]

The scene that inspired the logo for FF8 still beats it for me d:

Even against the might of garnet's little girly punching, the music in the FF8 scene is weeptastic.

[Kurohyou]

IMO, the reason 12's plot beats 7-10 is because there's no goddamn love story.

I think that's one weakness of xii. lol

There was, it was just squashed in the opening movie

Not to mention the vaan >> panelo, and fran >> baltheir subtexts.

My point was that the love interests never dominate the plot. While you could argue it never really did in 7, 9, and 10, it was still (in my opinion) the biggest motivation for the main characters.

12's plot deals with a human issue in a way that is rarely dealt with in RPGs. While the plot itself is a pretty stock anime/RPG plot (kingdom invades/dominates main characters' hometown, main characters discover some ultimate power to fight back), it deals with it in a way that's relatively unique.

Ashe obviously has access to a destructive force (and as the story progresses, the means of eliminating said destructive force) capable of winning back her kingdom, but it's very clear that she is aware of and stayed by the implications that would come with using that power. This is a stark contrast to a story revolving around a central love interest such as FF7 and FF8 in which the main character is primarily motivated by recovery and retention of his love interest and will follow through with that motivation by any means neccessary regardless of overall outcome (ie Squall mucking up the imprisonment of Rynoa that would have likely prevented the Lunar Cry or whatever it was called). While these kinds of stories are all fine and good, I find FF12's brand of moral struggle and multi-character-driven plot much more fascinating.

The other thing I like about 12 is a return to the pre-FF7 disemphasis on a major single main character (ie Cloud, Squall, Zidane, Tidus); while Vaan could easily be identified as the "main character" simply because you start with him and control him, he shares an equal weight in relevance to the progression of the story with everyone else. In fact, it would be more accurate to argue that Ashe is the "main character", as most of the journey involves trying to win back her kingdom. But in reality, each character has a story and a perspective and contributes rather well to the action at hand (I thought it was ultimately appropriate when Balthier exclaimed that he was "the leading man"), as opposed to 7-10 where, sure, characters had their own little back-story, but they were often practically treated as a side-quest or an offshoot of the main plot (Zell being a secret mama's boy and his obsession with hot-dogs is hardly proper character development).

I was disappointed at first that FF12 had only 6 playable characters, for I liked the massive variety and decentralization that came with FF6's 14 playable characters. But in the end I'm very satisfied with the way each character in FF12 is portrayed and how they are each involved in the story.

The only exception to this is poor Penelo though, she kinda gets tossed around on the sidelines a lot

[Demosthenes]

/

[Nightstriker]

This poll sucks, to me FFXII isnt the best, but isnt the worst, and compairing 7 to 12 is stupid, so I just voted for it being the worst.

I hold a grudge on FFXII as with most of the current RPGs, they suck because they are too easy.

FFXII has gambits, it has an icon and a noise when you approch an item that needs checking, its marked on the map, most maps you can find in the first area of the dungeon, you can have a 4th join the PT, and if they are the type to use potions, you are invincible, you have 6 members you can swap out midbattle, you can cure people in your reserve, the bosses are easy (so far, the last boss I fought was the elder wyrm and no one even came close to dying, and I havent died one any other), and there is probably one or three other things that I dont remember atm.

Current day RPGs piss me off, they are to easy; where is the fucking challenge any more? Where are the tactics? where are the puzzles? Where are the hard bosses? Older gamers always say that the 2D era of gaming was tougher than the 3D era, and so far that holds true in my book. FFI is a far greater challenge than FFXII. Shit, I remember taking paper and sketching out the world map and dungeons because they were so massive, and because there was no in game maps. FFXII is by far, the easiest FF game.

FFXII is a fun game, and I love the story, but it sucks in its own way. After Wii and Zelda comes out, im not sure when the next time ill play FFXII.

I tend to agree with you on some level but then again I gotta ask. What RPG's were ever hard? Shit I dont remember much of FF1 but I damn sure dont remember it being uber hard. Most RPG's if you keep your level up you never have a problem with any boss. As far as puzzle go, you tend to see more of those used in action RPG's then traditional RPG's. So what was a difficult RPG in your opinion? Only ones I really consider difficult was Breath of Fire 2 and the Golden Sun series.


PS: Why didn't they make a Golden Sun3

[divisortheory]

Seventh Saga was the hardest shit I've ever played in my life lol. But I guess you could say more boring than hard. At each city, in order to move to the next city you had to spend at least 6-7 hours of pure grinding in order to be strong enough to take the mobs in the next area.

[Lbelle]

PS: Why didn't they make a Golden Sun3

Because Golden Sun 1 & 2 sucked?

[Nightstriker]

PS: Why didn't they make a Golden Sun3

Because Golden Sun 1 & 2 sucked?

Shit you gotta be kidding, they where top sellers and had a orginal story <3 golden sun series.

[DeadLegend]

PS: Why didn't they make a Golden Sun3

Because Golden Sun 1 & 2 sucked?

You are not belle.

btw I just got FF3 DS =o

[Machazareel]

FF9 would have been a fantastic game if they had only ommited Quina, and either removed Necron or at least give a god damn solid reason for his existence.

"LOL SUP" doesn't quite cut it for me when we're talking about the appearance of the final boss in an installment of a game series that is renowned for its well-written stories.

I liked the general plot, Kuja was pretty badass despite dressing like a chick, the artistic style of the graphics was just fine... most of the game was fine, really. Generally fun boss fights, some nifty end-game weapons etc. Just why... why the hell did they add Quina? He's not even that relevant a character, just a hideous, walking pile of stupid.

Also, Ozma should have looked alot cooler considering its 'difficulty'. Hard optional bosses should look alot more hardcore than a technicolor pokemon sphere

I loved FF8, but you can attribute that to me being a sucker for love stories in games, and scenes with a really sappy song going on. Because seriously, that song was fkn perfect for their scene <.<
There were characters I didn't like, of course (Zell) and the game itself wasn't hard at all. Even the optional bosses were a walk in the park if you got the Lionheart for Squall, which you can actually get really fucking early in game (disc 1 or 2) <_<

But alas, I still can't play FF12, my mod-set has still not arrived, and I am a very sad panda because of that fact, so I'm here, playing it vicariously through all of you guys

[Po]

I did not read the last page and a half of posts because I do not want to be spoiled about anything, but after skimming, I do not get you guys not liking the plot of this game.
As a disclaimer I only just finished killing Ghis on the Leviathan so my opinion may change.
Every single FF game before this revolved mainly around 1 character's egotistic life and pretty much dealt directly with them. This FF has been a very welcome change, in that it does not deal with any of the 6 (who are all outstanding) characters directly. Of course Vaan appears to be a main character since you control him in the cities, but he is not an egotistical dick (Squall, Cloud).
12 instead chose to take the story in a new, fresh direction. One of a battle between competing factions of Ivalice, and the suffering, reward from this battle, see: Nalbina Dungeons. That place really gave me the chills and gave me a real feeling of the wickedness of the Empire. Our 6 characters are just small parts in the grand scheme. Of course 2 of them, so far, play a bigger role in the history of Ivalice (Basch and Ashe obviously), but overall you just appear to be 6 people in this political battle.
Never has a FF title taken a direction such as this, and I love it, and cannot get enough of the story. I do not see, as I cannot imagine, any of these characters transforming into that Squall or Cloud persona. Even in 4 or 9, though they weren't egotistical, the whole world seemed to revolve around Cecil and Zidane. Again this story does not do it.
Maybe I am way off base since I am still early in the game, but for right now, this story is top notch, and most importantly, fresh and new.

[DeadLegend]

Squall wasn't egotistical he was just quiet dammit

and as a horrible hateful little man it is hard for me to like Cecil, even though he is mighty and awesome and has wicked badass hair and has retarded hax cover.

I have to side with poor desperate kain =o